My €100m BEAM scheme

Robson99

It's not just the fellas who have to cut numbers by 5% that are loosing the weanling / store seller are also loosing as store buyers won't be as active

SuperTortoise

The 5% reduction was the foot in the door, from here on out we'll be "incentivized" to reduce numbers until there's only the big dairy farms and the the big beef barons left.

ruwithme

SuperTortoise wrote: »

The 5% reduction was the foot in the door, from here on out we'll be "incentivized" to reduce numbers until there's only the big dairy farms and the the big beef barons left.

Your right,that's the way it's going this long time really. Surely we've got to follow the money.

I'm still waiting on beam 3 though,for cattle hung last autumn at a base as low as €3:60 a kg

jd_12345

Lads knew what they were getting into. The herd reduction was clearly stated at the time. Its unfair on the lads that didn't enter it because of the reduction. Stock are going well in the marts- lads are no pity

ruwithme

I should i think/hope meet the 5%reduction, whoever is campaigning for a change of sorts,shur they may as well ask the question anyway. They powers can only say no at worst

Jack C

Robson99 wrote: »

It's not just the fellas who have to cut numbers by 5% that are loosing the weanling / store seller are also loosing as store buyers won't be as active

Don't think sellers are loosing out judging by prices being paid for stores or weanlings at the moment...

MIKEKC

Grueller wrote: »

I would say so. There is a bit ofa political shove on it seems. How far it will be watered is the only doubt.

Can't see it being changed.People knew what they were getting into. A lot of farmers didn't go into scheme because of rules.There would be uproar from these people if the rules were changed..Also from those that reduced stock numbers. Something similar has happened with Glas. For farmers with commonage a plan was drawn up whereby they had to put a certain number of sheep on commonage, most that hadnt sheep already didn't comply yet get paid every year.

Robson99

Jack C wrote: »

Don't think sellers are loosing out judging by prices being paid for stores or weanlings at the moment...

They could be making more
Say I buy 100 stores. Have to reduce by 5%
That's probably 10 less cattle that I will bid on in the mart assuming a strike rate of 50%

amens

ruwithme wrote: »

I should i think/hope meet the 5%reduction, whoever is campaigning for a change of sorts,shur they may as well ask the question anyway. They powers can only say no at worst

They should say no. I culled several cows last year to be well over the 5% reduction. I'll have less calves this spring so less calves to qualify for any scheme like beep and less calves to sell finished in two years time. Why did I do that when I could have just taken the money and not done anything and waited for a 5% reduction to become 4,3,2 or 1%?

Grueller

Another point is that the factories won't want the stock numbers reduced in the country. Look at what's happening at the moment with price when there is a bit of a scarcity.
2nd point is that there is and will be a market for live cattle due to Brexit. That in itself will make it more politically palatable to scrap plans for a reduction. If there is a few pound being made the tax take rises.
Brexit was meant to be the monster that killed the beef industry but it could, as long as the status quo regards the North lasts, be a saviour by putting serious competition on the factories down here for finished stock. Or am I reading this totally wrong?

minerleague

MIKEKC wrote: »

Can't see it being changed.People knew what they were getting into. A lot of farmers didn't go into scheme because of rules.There would be uproar from these people if the rules were changed..Also from those that reduced stock numbers. Something similar has happened with Glas. For farmers with commonage a plan was drawn up whereby they had to put a certain number of sheep on commonage, most that hadnt sheep already didn't comply yet get paid every year.

There might be a fudge where you get to keep 50% if you reduce by 2.5% etc. or you get 5 years to pay back money ( think greuller called this interest free loan)

MIKEKC

minerleague wrote: »

There might be a fudge where you get to keep 50% if you reduce by 2.5% etc. or you get 5 years to pay back money ( think greuller called this interest free loan)

Maybe,but if this happens wouldn't the same have to be done for other schemes?.

Aravo

If the scheme is to be watered down, then give those who achieved the 5 percent the full payment and those who achieved 4 percent 80 per cent of the full payment and so on, so 1 per cent reduction would be 20 percent of the full payment

ruwithme

As i said i should be on target to meet reduction. Best of luck i say to who ever is canvassing for abolition or a change in 5%reduction.

Have lads pay back money to the government???

They'd spend it well alright.

MIKEKC

ruwithme wrote: »

As i said i should be on target to meet reduction. Best of luck i say to who ever is canvassing for abolition or a change in 5%reduction.

Have lads pay back money to the government???

They'd spend it well alright.

I see in yesterday's Independent Ag minister is looking at scheme . Said he understands different opinions, people that complied, that aren't complying and more importantly people that would have entered the scheme if the 5% reduction wasn't there. The most serious problem as far as I can see is the people that remained outside. The unused money is probably used elsewhere, and even if it wasn't how would it be distributed if everyone outside tried to get in. A further problem would be that the same problem occurred in the Glas Scheme . A large number of farmers with commonage that weren't stocking it decided not to enter the scheme because of the requirement to use it. A huge number however entered the scheme ,never stocked the commonage yet get paid every year. If the rules are changed for BEAM surely then they will have to be changed for GLAS

Robson99

Beam is too far gone. Lads that have complied have missed the oppurtunity to purchase sufficient numbers when cattle were cheaper in October and november and will have lost out by complying

MIKEKC

Robson99 wrote: »

Beam is too far gone. Lads that have complied have missed the oppurtunity to purchase sufficient numbers when cattle were cheaper in October and november and will have lost out by complying

Agree completely , so why is the minister entertaining any discussion on the scheme

Cavanjack

This whole thing has been blown out of proportion. A farmer keeping 100 a year had to have 5 less over the year or 10 less over 6 months.
A lad keeping 50, had to keep 2.5 cattle less over the year or 5 less over 6 months.
It’s hardly rocket science. The live trade was on fire all of last year considering brexit, Covid and the poor beef price. There is still 5 and a half months for lads to get their numbers in order.
Lads will cry constantly about poor returns and the hardship of it all. They got a few euro for doing less work and they are giving out that they want the extra work.
I’ve made plans to have my numbers right to hold onto My beam money by reducing the number of cattle I am wintering and I wouldn’t say I spent more than 10 minutes working it out.

Jb1989

Cavanjack wrote: »

This whole thing has been blown out of proportion. A farmer keeping 100 a year had to have 5 less over the year or 10 less over 6 months.
A lad keeping 50, had to keep 2.5 cattle less over the year or 5 less over 6 months.
It’s hardly rocket science. The live trade was on fire all of last year considering brexit, Covid and the poor beef price. There is still 5 and a half months for lads to get their numbers in order.
Lads will cry constantly about poor returns and the hardship of it all. They got a few euro for doing less work and they are giving out that they want the extra work.
I’ve made plans to have my numbers right to hold onto My beam money by reducing the number of cattle I am wintering and I wouldn’t say I spent more than 10 minutes working it out.

Hope you do mean 5 percent of nitrates tho and not cattle. Its harder to work out for men buying bigger cattle one year and smaller cattle another year as the. Nitrates will vary then a lot.

Sugarbowl

It’s grand if they could give us an accurate figure of how we are doing so far... but the figures generated by ICBF are incorrect. A calf born the first of January and a calf born the 15th of January are all counted as a full month in the ICBF calculations from what I can see. You really need to go away and start counting days yourself and work it out. There’ll be a lot of cows going over the 290 days I’d say this Spring

Cavanjack

Jb1989 wrote: »

Hope you do mean 5 percent of nitrates tho and not cattle. Its harder to work out for men buying bigger cattle one year and smaller cattle another year as the. Nitrates will vary then a lot.

Yeah I’m just giving a rough guide. Most lads buying in buy similar cattle every year and I would ere on the side of caution and try and would be aiming for 6-7% just incase.

charolais0153

Sugarbowl wrote: »

It’s grand if they could give us an accurate figure of how we are doing so far... but the figures generated by ICBF are incorrect. A calf born the first of January and a calf born the 15th of January are all counted as a full month in the ICBF calculations from what I can see. You really need to go away and start counting days yourself and work it out. There’ll be a lot of cows going over the 290 days I’d say this Spring

Ya if u inside the 5% by icbf figures you'll Def be inside for the department figures

tanko

I see the minister is looking for approval from Brussels to change the reference period for the 5% reduction to Jan 1st 2021 - Dec 31st 2021.

charolais0153

tanko wrote: »

I see the minister is looking for approval from Brussels to change the reference period for the 5% reduction to Jan 1st 2021 - Dec 31st 2021.

That's bullshít for people who reduced in autumn

tanko

Surely those who have already reduced will be allowed to keep the original reference period if there are changes to the scheme now.

Cavanjack

tanko wrote: »

Surely those who have already reduced will be allowed to keep the original reference period if there are changes to the scheme now.

Would be wrong if they weren’t. The people that haven’t made a plan by now still won’t have one made by the end of the year

mr.stonewall

Cavanjack wrote: »

Would be wrong if they weren’t. The people that haven’t made a plan by now still won’t have one made by the end of the year

True, made a plan to make the cut and no more. Problem all along was that there was no way of tracking progress on a daily basis or weekly basis. Data that is returned from the dept is almost from 2 months ago. Also the format it is given is shocking. For most farmers the data needs to be live. I wish to have the 5% reduction made by June and be done of this crappy scheme.

Danzy

tanko wrote: »

Surely those who have already reduced will be allowed to keep the original reference period if there are changes to the scheme now.

Can I go back to last October and buy more cattle.

Anto_Meath

There would be no point, I think if anything store cattle were dearer in October November than now, don't think it paid to feed them over the last two months, but that's nearly the case every year.

Danzy

Anto_Meath wrote: »

There would be no point, I think if anything store cattle were dearer in October November than now, don't think it paid to feed them over the last two months, but that's nearly the case every year.

Prices being paid now for weanling heifers are often a Hundred a head dearer.