My €100m BEAM scheme

richie123

Bass Reeves wrote: »

AFAIK July18-June 19.

So it's your average stocking rate from July 18 to June 19 ?

Bass Reeves

richie123 wrote: »

So it's your average stocking rate from July 18 to June 19 ?

Not quite it is calculated in Kilo of N/HA. Lots of lads will get caught especially suckler farmers. Depending on weather they may keep weanlings longer in the autumn or if prices are poorer overwinter them. Alot will assume if you cull 1-2 cows that will do. But it's not quite that simple. For instance 2018 was a drought year lots of lads offloaded culls early because of a predicted silage deficit, they may as well have changed bulls and send the old bull to the factory in September and bought replacement in March. As well maybe they had a few empty cows that lead them to having 1-2less stores around the place

For Suckler farmers it will be harder to carry out corrective action next spring. You really need to an N budget to factor in everything

MikeSoys

i applied for the scheme when it came out, i looked at the submitted form on agfood again and i see it has populated a fields for March 2019- march 2020. im already over .. for the target i think its actually going to be quit hard for me to meet the target.. im expecting i might need to give the money back at this stage..else ill be out with the mower trying to keep all the fields from boing into meadows (beef farmer)

Cavanjack

MikeSoys wrote: »

i applied for the scheme when it came out, i looked at the submitted form on agfood again and i see it has populated a fields for March 2019- march 2020. im already over .. for the target i think its actually going to be quit hard for me to meet the target.. im expecting i might need to give the money back at this stage..else ill be out with the mower trying to keep all the fields from boing into meadows (beef farmer)

That’s just telling you your Kg/n for the 12 months ending 31st March 2020. It doesn’t mean you are over already.
Mine is showing 1000kg over for that period but I’ll adjust it over the winter months

Hurling Hereford

Beef Exceptional Aid Measure, Terms & Conditions, always a good idea to read

https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/farmingschemesandpayments/beefexceptionalaidmeasure/BEAMTANDC150819.pdf

Anto_Meath

I had to laugh, I was talking to a farmer today and he was tell me he is in a discussion group and some of them were talking in the last week and they are all convinced that there will be another one of these schemes again this year, because its a way of reducing the national herd. Can't see it myself but this man was adamant, he rang his Teagasc man who told him he didn't know but my man said to me when when Teagasc didn't rule it out there must be something in it. With all the money needed for Covid-19 and the fact there was a poor enough take up of this scheme last year I can't see money been put into it this year. Talking to most lads I know they are not sure what they have to do to reduce their numbers or if they will even bother it all depend on trade. I think this scheme is probable the least beneficial of all schemes for smaller producers.

Cavanjack

Has anyone thought of going down B and B route to keep under the kg/n limit? Maybe house a few cattle in another mans herd for a few months of the winter?

Bass Reeves

Cavanjack wrote: »

Has anyone thought of going down B and B route to keep under the kg/n limit? Maybe house a few cattle in another mans herd for a few months of the winter?

Two movements

Cavanjack

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Two movements

Would suit some though. If buying weanlings to finish you’d be still ok

Bass Reeves

Cavanjack wrote: »

Would suit some though. If buying weanlings to finish you’d be still ok

Is it really feasible to achieve the 5% reduction and still retain as much Beam money as possible. No farmer is going to take half a dozen weanlings maybe they will take a pen.

You have to factor in feed and feeding costs. Take a farmer to maintain stocking levels he sends 20 weanlings to BnB for a 20week winter. We assume that they have been tested and there test is on until after BnB period.

I will put BnB charge at 2euro/head/week. That 40 euro. He now has to feed them if he drops his own silage off add the cost of that, using BnB silage maybe 1.5/ day as opposed to his own at sub a euro/day. Add in risk factor, as well cost of calling to see cattle.

I put the total cost at 100/ head for the winter or 2k for twenty cattle for 20weeks. This to reduce the N factor of 8weanling for 12 months

Bass Reeves

Anto_Meath wrote: »

I had to laugh, I was talking to a farmer today and he was tell me he is in a discussion group and some of them were talking in the last week and they are all convinced that there will be another one of these schemes again this year, because its a way of reducing the national herd. Can't see it myself but this man was adamant, he rang his Teagasc man who told him he didn't know but my man said to me when when Teagasc didn't rule it out there must be something in it. With all the money needed for Covid-19 and the fact there was a poor enough take up of this scheme last year I can't see money been put into it this year. Talking to most lads I know they are not sure what they have to do to reduce their numbers or if they will even bother it all depend on trade. I think this scheme is probable the least beneficial of all schemes for smaller producers.

This goes to the nub of the matter. The EU is not the answer to profitability in dairy farming. Lads are already running around trying to jump through hoops to adapt there system regarding the 5% reduction. In my case it makes no sense. I only had 4 cattle slaughtered in the scheme period.

The problem for a lot of lads is they are pushing up numbers to try to keep profitability the same. Now they have to reduce by 5%. It a no brained for the lads with 4-6k on a midsized Suckler farm. But for smaller or larger outfits it problematic. Or the Suckler farmer that had a large number of culls that year
then there is the lad that got 4-5k but is a finisher and was killing a lot if cows. Now he needs to adapt his system.

Lads are learning there is no such thing as a free lunch. It amazing too the way lads cannot wean themselves off the test. They got it last year and now think it should be there every year.

Cavanjack

Bass Reeves wrote: »

This goes to the nub of the matter. The EU is not the answer to profitability in dairy farming. Lads are already running around trying to jump through hoops to adapt there system regarding the 5% reduction. In my case it makes no sense. I only had 4 cattle slaughtered in the scheme period.

The problem for a lot of lads is they are pushing up numbers to try to keep profitability the same. Now they have to reduce by 5%. It a no brained for the lads with 4-6k on a midsized Suckler farm. But for smaller or larger outfits it problematic. Or the Suckler farmer that had a large number of culls that year
then there is the lad that got 4-5k but is a finisher and was killing a lot if cows. Now he needs to adapt his system.

Lads are learning there is no such thing as a free lunch. It amazing too the way lads cannot wean themselves off the test. They got it last year and now think it should be there every year.

A neighbour of mine usually winters round 200 head. He got tied up with tb round the reference period for 7 months which means he can only keep round 100 head this winter coming. He has a world of silage over from last year plus this years to come as he has to keep stock numbers down from July. He got the 10k and is glad of it but in all fairness it is a nuisance for him.

richie123

Cavanjack wrote: »

A neighbour of mine usually winters round 200 head. He got tied up with tb round the reference period for 7 months which means he can only keep round 100 head this winter coming. He has a world of silage over from last year plus this years to come as he has to keep stock numbers down from July. He got the 10k and is glad of it but in all fairness it is a nuisance for him.

I wouldn't be too worried if I were that man.
Having to reduce a lossmaking activity could be a blessing in disguise.
The way this year is turning out the silage could be a lot more valuable..the 5 %reduction requirement was an excellent idea that will hit the likes of Goodman,if only a small bit.

jntsnk

I think the EU strategy for organic farming will be it the new scheme for herd reduction

trg

We'll do an earlyish cull on the empty cows and before 30/06 sell the strong yearlings, they'd be around 15/16 months now. They wont push on much on our ground by keeping to Oct/Nov.

That should see us under without a massive drop in profit.

Earnshaw

With reducing the numbers for BEAM before the 30/06, will I be losing out on pairs of cows/calves for BEEP-S, or can I weigh for BEEP anytime?

tanko

Earnshaw wrote: »

With reducing the numbers for BEAM before the 30/06, will I be losing out on pairs of cows/calves for BEEP-S, or can I weigh for BEEP anytime?

You don't need to make the reduction before 30/06, it's calculated over the following 12 months, not on a single day.

Bass Reeves

tanko wrote: »

You don't need to make the reduction before 30/06, it's calculated over the following 12 months, not on a single day.

Correct. However a 5% reduction over 12 months is a 10%reduction over 6months

Earnshaw

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Correct. However a 5% reduction over 12 months is a 10%reduction over 6months

Ah that explains it!

peterofthebr

i was onto the dept about BEAM. Im considering pulling out from the sceme now. Its my understanding that if you dont meet the target its not just a matter of giving money back from scheme ...there is also a penalty.

Bellview

peterofthebr wrote: »

i was onto the dept about BEAM. Im considering pulling out from the sceme now. Its my understanding that if you dont meet the target its not just a matter of giving money back from scheme ...there is also a penalty.

What ispenalty

I says

I’ll finish all cattle here in the autumn and I’ll replace with weanlings a lesser number that’ll cover me in the scheme.

Sugarbowl

Can anyone clarify the penalty issue?

tanko

tanko wrote: »

Don't think there's any extra penalties, they'll just take the money back.
There's a sliding scale of penalties
Reduce between 4.8 - 5.0% 20% penalty
Reduce between 4.6 - 4.8% 40% penalty
Reduce between 4.4 - 4.6% 60% penalty
Reduce between 4.0 - 4.4% 80% penalty
Reduce < 4.0 100% penalty

These are the penalties.
There's also a 100% penalty if the department decide that a farmer artificially creates the conditions to qualify for the payment.
Maybe this means moving cattle into another herd not in the scheme and moving them back again.
I don't think there's any extra penalty for pulling out of the scheme only having to give the money back.

Robson99

I says wrote: »

I’ll finish all cattle here in the autumn and I’ll replace with weanlings a lesser number that’ll cover me in the scheme.

Same as. Cut back a few over winter months

Danzy

Was heavier stocked in the reference period than normal, giving heifers a bit of ration now due to grass slowing down, they are forward so might as well have them gone a bit quicker, last by July 7th. That lot are a 1/3 of the stock, if the heat continues I'll leave few weeks or longer to restock. The 2nd 3rd are aiming for August while the remainder are for September to January.

That few weeks delay Might keep me good in Beam and let grass build, either way I don't mind, took it with a willingness to give it back.

TCDStudent1

Quick question regarding this scheme. Lets say I am 200kg below my target kg today. I then go out and by 10 cattle 1- 2 years (57 * 10 according to the example). That puts me above my target by 370. However, a few days later, I sell 10 cattle (>2 years). This puts me back under the target again. Does this mean I have breached the conditions of the scheme? Do you have to remain under the target for every day of the duration?

Danzy

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Quick question regarding this scheme. Lets say I am 200kg below my target kg today. I then go out and by 10 cattle 1- 2 years (57 * 10 according to the example). That puts me above my target by 370. However, a few days later, I sell 10 cattle (>2 years). This puts me back under the target again. Does this mean I have breached the conditions of the scheme? Do you have to remain under the target for every day of the duration?

No, you can rise or fall above it. The longer you are above the steeper the correction down the road though. I'm currently well above and will be sending 40% to factory in 2 weeks. Will weight a few weeks to buy replacements.

One thing I'd say is that the last 2 months before this might see a good few cattle killed ir sold.

TCDStudent1

Danzy wrote: »

No, you can rise or fall above it. The longer you are above the steeper the correction down the road though. I'm currently well above and will be sending 40% to factory in 2 weeks. Will weight a few weeks to buy replacements.

One thing I'd say is that the last 2 months before this might see a good few cattle killed ir sold.

Thanks for the clarification. So how is the target actually calculated? Is it just that you have to hit the target on a specific date?

Danzy

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Thanks for the clarification. So how is the target actually calculated? Is it just that you have to hit the target on a specific date?

Averaged out of the year.

So if you needed to be 2 under to hit target but didn't do it till 6 months left, it would equal a cut of four.

Restructuring the herd by buying in younger, selling weanlings earlier, can add up hut keep numbers relatively the same.