You're €44,365 in debt. All set for another recession?

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Presumably the cost reduces every year as older bonds with higher interest are repaid with newer bonds with lower interest.

_blaaz

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

The 65% of GDP isn’t extremely large by historical standards or European standards,

If you remove the gdp from the highly questionable practice of companies funneling profit through here to avoid tax.....the debt to gdp of the actual econmy is 107% though?

Plumbthedepths

Deleted User wrote:

What's with the etc. ,etc. Have you run out of points?

Not at all, but they are the most significant

Deleted User wrote:

Yes, the NCH was poor management and the Rural broadband plan is bizarre, but they are still far less damaging than FF.

lol

Deleted User wrote:

FG have steadied the ship, and deserve more time. They made a mistake with NCH and are making a mistake, it would seem, with RB, but overall Ireland is in a much better place than where FF left it.

FF prior to leaving office in 2011 had made 2 thirds of the required adjustment. I realise what they did is the equivalent of the arsonist helping ot put out the fire. All FG had to do was follow the road map agreed between FF and the Trioka. It's only when they had to make decisions the screw ups started. Irish water cost over 1 billion for what? I can't think of any project that came in on cost since FG took office.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

_blaaz wrote: »

If you remove the gdp from the highly questionable practice of companies funneling profit through here to avoid tax.....the debt to gdp of the actual econmy is 107% though?

My answer was long enough but I don’t think debt to gdp/gnp matters at all except as a rule of thumb.

Ones an income. The others a stock of debt.

And GDP/GNP is the total private sector income. What matters is repayments vs government revenue. With regard to the corporations it’s whether we can tax them or not. I don’t know what percentage of tax the repayments we are spending now is but I doubt it’s onerous.


Japan is surviving well enough on 200% debt to GDP. It survives because it can still issue bonds and repay them at low interest. The cost of servicing matters.

https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/japan/government-debt--of-nominal-gdp

ToddyDoody

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Ff will do very well in the next ge, they ll probably be in government in some shape or form, as they are now

With no money to spend. Big difference.

codrulz

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

You can't compare Ireland to the USA. The latter is single-handedly responsible for the only real world-reserve currency.

Ireland and its economy is like Pat Kenny: big at home, but meaningless abroad. And our economy is not so sheltered.

I was answering someone's question.. I wasn't drawing a comparison.

Wanderer78

ToddyDoody wrote:

With no money to spend. Big difference.

It don't really matter, Irish politics isn't really ready for change, the next couple of GE's probably won't make much difference, it ll be the same ould story

salonfire

Wanderer78 wrote: »

It don't really matter, Irish politics isn't really ready for change, the next couple of GE's probably won't make much difference, it ll be the same ould story

And thank heavens for that.

Pubs & restaurants heaving, wage increases, more people going on Holiday (Dublin Airport parking is currently booked out), everyone who wants a job can get one, less tax/USC - with further deceases to come, bustling cities with tourists,

Why would you want to change any of that?

To have the likes of Richard Boyd Barrett and his merry men of lefties experiment putting their theories into practice? No thanks.

If anything should change, it should be less Government interface, starting with improving the planning process to allow more apartment building.

Wanderer78

salonfire wrote:

If anything should change, it should be less Government interface, starting with improving the planning process to allow more apartment building.

Free market libertarianism rocks! Wealth trickles down, rising tide, and blah blah blah blah......

Again, nothing's gonna change, and the political left is clueless, so rock on, the same ould story

salonfire

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Free market libertarianism rocks! Wealth trickles down, rising tide, and blah blah blah blah......

Again, nothing's gonna change, and the political left is clueless, so rock on, the same ould story

Now you got it!!

30 years ago people were driving cars held together with rust and walking with their arse showing through holes in their trousers. We have come a long way since then.

The possibilities for the next 30 years are limited less. I can't wait to see what new and exciting technologies the cutting edge companies of the world come up with.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

salonfire wrote: »

Now you got it!!

30 years ago people were driving cars held together with rust and walking with their arse showing through holes in their trousers. We have come a long way since then.

The possibilities for the next 30 years are limited less. I can't wait to see what new and exciting technologies the cutting edge companies of the world come up with.

It’s possible to have technological growth and fairly high and interventionist tax system cf 1945-1975.

The last few decades have been good to Ireland but not most of the west, Ireland should really be seen as a developing country which managed to catch up.

However in most of the west the period post war was the greatest in terms of technological and wage growth, we are running on the exhaust fumes of previous eras.

Wanderer78

salonfire wrote:

30 years ago people were driving cars held together with rust and walking with their arse showing through holes in their trousers. We have come a long way since then.

Totally agree, but what will happen regarding access to our most critical of needs such as housing, health care, and possibly our most significant of needs, a healthy planet, currently things don't look too good on these fronts. Is free market libertarianism the way forward, or has it been a significant creator of our most serious of issues? Will it survive, will younger generations say enough is enough, particularly if they can't get access to these critical needs? Who knows. Its clear in my eyes, there's something a little weird with this free market stuff, and the number of disgruntled people seems to be growing

4068ac1elhodqr

salonfire wrote: »

30 years ago people were driving cars held together with rust and walking with their arse showing through holes in their trousers. We have come a long way since then.

So has nearly everywhere else.

salonfire wrote: »

The possibilities for the next 30 years are limited less. I can't wait to see what new and exciting technologies the cutting edge companies of the world come up with.

Could probably reduce that to just 11-15yrs. Deep into autonomy (after the other two waves of algorithmic and augmentation automation).

China is on course to win the battle of 'AI technological supremacy'. India may also follow them not long thereafter, and also overtaking either the USA or USE in terms of GDP also.
From there innovation will be led. There is a chance some type of super-innovator such as Musk can lead the West, and bring balance.
Ireland's advantage may well diminish (cheap corp tax), and as such new roadmaps should be considered.

pummice

If the government was a bank, what would its rating be?

Harvey Weinstein

salonfire wrote: »

Now you got it!!

30 years ago people were driving cars held together with rust and walking with their arse showing through holes in their trousers. We have come a long way since then.

The possibilities for the next 30 years are limited less. I can't wait to see what new and exciting technologies the cutting edge companies of the world come up with.

Really? I don't remember this, I remember almost everyone owning their own home on one income. I also remember neighbours with both parents working had nice cars and were generally quite comfortably off, whereas now two parents working in good jobs can still struggle to pay the bills.

Wanderer78

pummice wrote:

If the government was a bank, what would its rating be?

Publicly owned banks would be a good addition to our economy, some believing they're far more stable that our current offerings

Franz Von Peppercorn II

pummice wrote: »

If the government was a bank, what would its rating be?

Pretty good. Governments are measured by bond agencies

https://tradingeconomics.com/ireland/rating

Beasty

I reckon I've a share of both UK and Irish national debt. I also reckon I've built up.more accrued State pension across both (assuming standard life expectancy). I also have access to health services, infrastructure and the like that my share of the national debts have helped fund

I also have the advantage of no personal debt, a few properties, some investments, a bit of cash and some bikes. Well actually quite a few bikes - might pass them into the kids in my will (the bikes that is - not the other stuff :pac:)

Roberto_gas

Another recession thread !! Things are heating up ain't that true ??

Snow Garden

I reckon we are already entering a recession. We'll know all about it by early 2020. And yes the OP is right, the ongoing national debt problem will bite. We are borrowing to pay for our public services for over 10 years now.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Snow Garden wrote: »

I reckon we are already entering a recession. We'll know all about it by early 2020. And yes the OP is right, the ongoing national debt problem will bite. We are borrowing to pay for our public services for over 10 years now.

Not near entering a recession just yet. A recession is a minimum of two consecutive quarters of negative economic growth. We haven't had one such quarter so far.

Not saying one won't arrive but we are not there yet.

4068ac1elhodqr

Hunt won't be the next UKPM, but if he was to be wouldn't his promise to cut corporation tax to 12.5% (matching Ireland) do some damage?
Haloween Brexitland will likely steer towards tax haven status-esq, and have a plate load of fiscal incentives (grants/discounts/schemes) to attract MNCs.

Even their big tax break for £80k earners, and proposed points-based migration might cause a slight human resource issue for many others.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Danna Eager Thighbone wrote: »

Hunt won't be the next UKPM, but if he was to be wouldn't his promise to cut corporation tax to 12.5% (matching Ireland) do some damage?
Haloween Brexitland will likely steer towards tax haven status-esq, and have a plate load of fiscal incentives (grants/discounts/schemes) to attract MNCs.

Even their big tax break for £80k earners, and proposed points-based migration might cause a slight human resource issue for many others.

It might have done some damage were they in the EU.

thomas 123

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Publicly owned banks would be a good addition to our economy, some believing they're far more stable that our current offerings

This

salonfire

thomas 123 wrote: »

This

Credit unions are community owned and run and they also ran into trouble.

kowloon

I'm building up a stockpile of Sudafed during the good times so I can meth my way out of a food bill during the recession.

Eric Cartman

As weve all learned lads, bankruptcy is short, debt means nothing, you’ll get a writedown and not even have to care, the more you owe the nicer the banks will be so you don’t just default and keep oaying them, have it large, dinner in the shelbourne, million quid alartments in D4, finance a lambo, have it large, itll be somebody elses mess to clean up.

Wanderer78

salonfire wrote:

Credit unions are community owned and run and they also ran into trouble.

Public banks are a different beast altogether, backed by states, they can be a very powerful addition to an economy, the bank of north dakota and the German savings bank, the sparkasse bank, being such examples. The bank of north Dakota was one of the few American banks that was largely unaffected during the previous banking crisis, some believing this was due to its more conservative model, by not involving itself in risky behavior such as derivatives trading etc.

thomas 123

Harvey Weinstein wrote: »

Really? I don't remember this, I remember almost everyone owning their own home on one income. I also remember neighbours with both parents working had nice cars and were generally quite comfortably off, whereas now two parents working in good jobs can still struggle to pay the bills.

This ... is what I meant to quote lol not the thing about the banks 😂