You're €44,365 in debt. All set for another recession?

_blaaz

Ubbquittious wrote: »

It matters to the person paying it. I would prefer if we used some unorthodox or laughable tactic to shake off this debt, burn it into the constitution that no government can take on debt again and be done with this nonsense. Investors are essentially living off our backs because our government has never been able to control its spending

If this was done,government would never get infrasturture built.


Debt is ok,once it adds value....but borrowing to pay ridcolus public service wages is a joke

is_that_so

_blaaz wrote: »

We paid 35 billion last 5 years in interest payments.


If ireland for whatever reason stuggles to raise money again,we would require a bailout....there isnt 7 billion of cuts to be made in the economy (no mind trying to reraise principal!),many public services are at creaking point as it is due to population increase??

No modern country operates without debt. We needed a bailout because of the mess we were in, absolutely nothing like that now.

Kivaro

_blaaz wrote: »

We paid 35 billion last 5 years in interest payments.


If ireland for whatever reason stuggles to raise money again,we would require a bailout....there isnt 7 billion of cuts to be made in the economy (no mind trying to reraise principal!),many public services are at creaking point as it is due to population increase??

But it'll be real fun when they start trying. The liberal media will go into meltdown when cuts start.
What happened in Greece after the last crisis will be a picnic compared to the austerity that will be enforced on Ireland in the next few years.
Yes, there was a legacy issue with the bailout, but the current government just overspent and did not manage our finances correctly. Fecks sake; €300 million every year just for the Christmas bonus for people who are on welfare? Maybe we deserve severe austerity to right the ship finally.

_blaaz

is_that_so wrote: »

No modern country operates without debt. We needed a bailout because of the mess we were in, absolutely nothing like that now.

So your just going to gloss over the inevitability of it happening,if/when eurozone gets into crisis etc or america econmy eventually sh1ts itself

is_that_so

Ubbquittious wrote: »

It matters to the person paying it. I would prefer if we used some unorthodox or laughable tactic to shake off this debt, burn it into the constitution that no government can take on debt again and be done with this nonsense. Investors are essentially living off our backs because our government has never been able to control its spending

You can't expand services and no infrastructure nor multiyear projects could happen without it. Some of those "investors" are providing pensions!

is_that_so

_blaaz wrote: »

So your just going to gloss over the inevitability of it happening,if/when eurozone gets into crisis etc or america econmy eventually sh1ts itself

We've had multiple recessions over the last 50 years but only 2009 necessitated intervention and there is far more control of all things financial since those days. Brexit is the big unknown.

Ubbquittious

is_that_so wrote: »

You can't expand services and no infrastructure nor multiyear projects could happen without it. Some of those "investors" are providing pensions!

You can. You skimp along for a year until you have enough to pay for your project and as a result you build a lot more projects because you are spending 0 a year on interest instead of several billion

_blaaz

Ubbquittious wrote: »

You can. You skimp along for a year until you have enough to pay for your project and as a result you build a lot more projects because you are spending 0 a year on interest instead of several billion

Personally i think a 2-3% ring fenced infrastructure tax would be best.....that way everyone would buy into seeing proper stuff being done and fiascos such as the children hospiteal wouldnt happen as everyone can visiably see it in their wage packet what it costing em

is_that_so

Ubbquittious wrote: »

You can. You skimp along for a year until you have enough to pay for your project and as a result you build a lot more projects because you are spending 0 a year on interest instead of several billion

A project like the NCH could never happen nor any of the transport projects for Dublin nor even funding for public housing. It's really not the same debt as private debt which has to be repaid. Public debt doesn't.

is_that_so

_blaaz wrote: »

Personally i think a 2-3% ring fenced infrastructure tax would be best.....that way everyone would buy into seeing proper stuff being done and fiascos such as the children hospiteal wouldnt happen as everyone can visiably see it in their wage packet what it costing em

The biggest cost to the economy are Health and Welfare, both of which will need to expand in future years, but that will be coupled with a reduced workforce.

Ubbquittious

is_that_so wrote: »

A project like the NCH could never happen nor any of the transport projects for Dublin nor even funding for public housing. It's really not the same debt as private debt which has to be repaid. Public debt doesn't.

China does it with feck all national debt. The government just has to be more organised. If we had no debt servicing to pay, we could build a children's hospital every year with no added strain on our backs.


If we did build one every year we would get more efficient at building them, cost would come down and quality goes up. 10 years time we will have a childrens hospital centre of excellence with people all over the world bringing their children to be treated.

beggars_bush

How much savings do Irish people have?

Something like 300 billion

Your Face

listermint wrote: »

I do enjoy the wheeze that elsewhere is better. That's the hilarious part.


The oul grass is greener stuff is gas.

That is hilarious because I never said any of that.

nuyil simp

whats the opposite of dept?

Imreoir2

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

The national debt per capita is actually on the increase. It currently stands at €44,365 per person.

It's quite refreshing to see the media ackowledge this, outside of the normal news cycle -- but of course, it isn't an historical conversation. This money is repeatedly falling due, and we're paying it.

These figures won't surprise most people, but we should never forget the sheer scale of our national debt (an even smaller figure than our GGD/ public debt), which has quadrupled since the beginning of the great recession.

We're also heading into deeply uncertain times, and another recession is probably now overdue.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-s-debt-44-365-is-owed-by-every-man-woman-and-child-in-the-state-1.3954806



How are ye fixed for the next economic crisis?

That money was used to pay for stuff, every country in the world runs a debt, and for a good reason. Our economey would be much worse if we did not have any debt because that would mean that much less investment had been made in it. The national debt ideally contnues to grow steadly over time, as long as it does not grow at a signficantly faster rate than the economey as a whole, then we are all good.

Imreoir2

Imreoir2 wrote: »

That money was used to pay for stuff, every country in the world runs a debt, and for a good reason. .

I did acknowledge that, though.

My problem isn't with the fact that we have public debt -- but that it has quadrupled in such a short space of time, and that its enormity has been obscured by our recent, unsustainable growth spurt.

The chan chan man

I honestly have still not fully recovered from the last recession. I have a well paying job which I managed to hang onto during the recession working 2 day weeks resulting in an overall 80% paycut... I’m still not back to where I should be.

The thoughts of another one will be the death of me.

jim salter

ELM327 wrote: »

we will in all likelihood have a recession (probably minor) in the next 18-24 months. Granted.


We should have been making payments off the capital since about 2014 rather than bowing to the screeches of the extreme left for pay increases.



However in a banana republic like ours we elect loonies and pay the price (literally) in the poor governance we receive.


It should be paid down in the good times, but (and this is my point) painting the picture of the per capita figure implies that it all needs to be paid back and ASAP. When in reality a majority of national debt is serviced and rolled over.

If it hasn't been said already, the next 'recession' will be much, much worse than the last one.

Deutsch bank has been fúcked for a few years now (which is evident from their recent 'restructuring') Italy is so bad that the Mafia are back to using the Lira, many parts of Spain and Portugal never recovered from the last financial power play.

We are completely and totally fúcked and the majority of the sheeple of Ireland are oblivious.

Plumbthedepths

Deleted User wrote:

FG should be able to pay off the national debt, but if they did they'd be holding the reins just to pass onto FF at the next general election.

I find it hilarious that you think FG is more competent than FF, children's hospital, rural Boardband etc etc........

Chris_Heilong

Well with Brexit happening and us losing Britain as a big buyer of our products we will lose money, then there is the proposed corporate tax reform that some EU members are trying to push through that basically means corporate tax will be paid to the country where most of the companies products are sold/used and not to where the tech companies have their HQ which will lose Ireland a lot of money if it happens. The Eu are also looking at South American beef to be an option in the future which will damage our beef industry which cant compete with cheaper products, then there are the fines from the EU as Ireland is not meeting its carbon targets. So we are screwed.

NIMAN

Let's be honest, if the doom merchants are correct, all countries are hammered, not just Ireland.

Many folk here seem to think we'll be the only people suffering.

Plumbthedepths

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I find it hilarious that you think FG is more competent than FF, children's hospital, rural Boardband etc etc........

What's with the etc. ,etc. Have you run out of points?

Yes, the NCH was poor management and the Rural broadband plan is bizarre, but they are still far less damaging than FF.

FG have steadied the ship, and deserve more time. They made a mistake with NCH and are making a mistake, it would seem, with RB, but overall Ireland is in a much better place than where FF left it.

Tokyo

Moved from AH > CA

Kidchameleon

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I have zero debt.

Not only that. No member of my family has any debt at all not even a car loan.

And yes we own cars and property.

If your paying tax, then you are paying debt

ToddyDoody

If there's any consolation in this, it's that you can vote FF in again but don't think they'll be able to buy elections like they did previously with that level of debt now present.

Not that I'm anti FF or anything.

GooglePlus

Only feels like last week when I was adulterating the Dairy Gold with Lidl brand to make her last. Time to tighten the trouser ropes again so.

GooglePlus

GooglePlus wrote: »

Only feels like last week when I was adulterating the Dairy Gold with Lidl brand to make her last. Time to tighten the trouser ropes again so.

Moved from CA > AH

Wanderer78

ToddyDoody wrote:

If there's any consolation in this, it's that you can vote FF in again but don't think they'll be able to buy elections like they did previously with that level of debt now present.

Ff will do very well in the next ge, they ll probably be in government in some shape or form, as they are now

Whocare

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I have zero debt.

Not only that. No member of my family has any debt at all not even a car loan.

And yes we own cars and property.

Easy to not have a car loan if your driving a banger

Franz Von Peppercorn II

The 65% of GDP isn’t extremely large by historical standards or European standards, the time before the last recession was historically low. Much good that did us. And nor is the Irish economy likely to collapse as in 2008, as the economy is more broad based. For instance if construction declined significantly it wouldn’t necessarily be a recession.

The U.K. has had a public debt higher than GDP (up to 200% or so) during the 19C. It was also the richest country in the world, the most powerful, and the most consumerist. It didn’t collapse and Sterling remained the world’s reserve currency until the mid 20C. (Arguably it could afford the debt because it was the reserve currency).

A sovereign nation can roll over debt. Most bonds are paid back in full at the end of term, the interest payments are paid during the term, so we don’t have to pay 44K each over 30 years but the interest on it. We don’t need or aim to get the debt to 0% of GDP. At the end of term debt A is then paid off with another bond, debt B.

If Ireland just pays interest over 30 years and decides not to reduce the actual nominal capital owed, and the economy doubles ( 2% a year growth), then the existing debt would be 30% of the GDP.

Therefore the real cost to us is the flow of money needed to service the debt and the size relative to GDP is largely irrelevant