The glorious 12th

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I enjoy robust argument and rarely report anything but you guys have crossed the line here. And you do not have the decency to apologise and retract. Then it takes a fairly big person to apologise.

As for the glorious 12th I suggest you google our news in UK any 12th August and I be surprised if it is not mentioned. But of course you know that anyhow.

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=the+glorious+twelfth

I understand the 12th of August is another parade date downcow, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt. that is what you say you were referencing.

But that 12th of August is not known as the 'glorious 12th', the start of the shooting season in the UK is though.

Were you being smartalecy in a vicious ambiguous way...who knows.

I am prepared to to accept that you said something that was not intended to be offensive. We have a long history of having to listen to the Orange Order triumphalising bloody victories.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I understand the 12th of August is another parade date downcow, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt. that is what you say you were referencing.

But that 12th of August is not known as the 'glorious 12th', the start of the shooting season in the UK is though.

Were you being smartalecy in a vicious ambiguous way...who knows.

I am prepared to to accept that you said something that was not intended to be offensive. We have a long history of having to listen to the Orange Order triumphalising bloody victories.

I appreciate that Francie. Tbh I was most surprised at you accusing me of this. And it doesn’t surprise me that you are big enough to accept I am being honest.

I am not sure what you are saying about the glorious 12th not being 12aug my understanding is that it is

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I appreciate that Francie. Tbh I was most surprised at you accusing me of this. And it doesn’t surprise me that you are big enough to accept I am being honest.

I am not sure what you are saying about the glorious 12th not being 12aug my understanding is that it is

The Glorious 12th is the start of the shooting season in the UK downcow. The 12th Aug .is also the day the battle Of The Bogside started and the day there is a parade 'The Relief' of Derry.

The Glorious 12th in Orange Culture is the 12th of July. I wonder are you being a bit disingenuous here saying you are not aware of this.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The Glorious 12th is the start of the shooting season in the UK downcow. The 12th Aug .is also the day the battle Of The Bogside started and the day there is a parade 'The Relief' of Derry.

The Glorious 12th in Orange Culture is the 12th of July. I wonder are you being a bit disingenuous here saying you are not aware of this.

A few ‘facts’ wrong there Francie I have never heard anyone in my community refer to the glorious 12th in reference to 12th July. It is simply ‘the twelfth’, ‘the twelfth week’ etc. I think there was some humorous play on the famous grouse ‘glorious 12th’ in some orange order or material in recent years. But no it is nonsense to suggest it is referred to as the glorious 12th.
....and I am fairly sure the relief of Derry parade is not always on the 12th aug.
I know nothing of the battle of the bogside. I have heard the term but assumed it referred to BS. But I now make the link as I have seen the anniversary stuff on tv

But I suppose you getting 1 out of 3 correct is progress

Stop moaning ffs

Still waiting on you to explain why you don’t want the backstop DC. Can you name even two things about it you’re against?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

A few ‘facts’ wrong there Francie I have never heard anyone in my community refer to the glorious 12th in reference to 12th July. It is simply ‘the twelfth’, ‘the twelfth week’ etc. I think there was some humorous play on the famous grouse ‘glorious 12th’ in some orange order or material in recent years. But no it is nonsense to suggest it is referred to as the glorious 12th.
....and I am fairly sure the relief of Derry parade is not always on the 12th aug.
I know nothing of the battle of the bogside. I have heard the term but assumed it referred to BS. But I now make the link as I have seen the anniversary stuff on tv

But I suppose you getting 1 out of 3 correct is progress

downcow: you disappoint me. I think you are being completely disingenuous.

The Twelfth (also called the Glorious Twelfth or Orangemen's Day)[1] is an Ulster Protestant celebration held on 12 July. It was first held in the late 18th century in Ulster. It celebrates the Glorious Revolution (1688) and victory of Protestant King William of Orange over Catholic king James II at the Battle of the Boyne (1690), which began the Protestant Ascendancy in Ireland.

And there is no doubt that the 12th August is the date the Siege of Derry celebrations are centred around.

The Apprentice Boys of Derry exist in commemoration of the Siege of Derry in the seventeenth century. The Boys' biggest celebration is held in Derry on the Saturday nearest 12 August each year, in commemoration of the lifting of the siege.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

downcow: you disappoint me. I think you are being completely disingenuous.



And there is no doubt that the 12th August is the date the Siege of Derry celebrations are centred around.

The glorious revolution I certainly would have heard often but I stand by that I have never heard anyone in my community call the twelfth anything but the twelfth.

I take it you have accepted that you statement about a parade every 12th of August is incorrect

downcow

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Still waiting on you to explain why you don’t want the backstop DC. Can you name even two things about it you’re against?

Ffs. If I suspected someone of making as disgusting a statement as you suspect me of, then I wouldn’t be engaging with them again until they apologised . So you surprise me. I expected more of you than to engage with someone who you suspect of joking about the killing of your community.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

The glorious revolution I certainly would have heard often but I stand by that I have never heard anyone in my community call the twelfth anything but the twelfth.

I take it you have accepted that you statement about a parade every 12th of August is incorrect

I never said it there was one 'every' 12th of August.

It IS THOUGH the 12th Aug being celebrated, whenever the parade takes place.

What were you referencing then by calling attention to the 'the other Glorious 12th', if one of them was not the 12th July?

Your logic is letting you down.

Stop moaning ffs

downcow wrote: »

Ffs. If I suspected someone of making as disgusting a statement as you suspect me of, then I wouldn’t be engaging with them again until they apologised . So you surprise me. I expected more of you than to engage with someone who you suspect of joking about the killing of your community.

You’d better apologize then hadn’t you?

It’s never about what was said, a comment like the one you made, it’s about how it’s received.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I never said it there was one 'every' 12th of August.

It IS THOUGH the 12th Aug being celebrated, whenever the parade takes place.

What were you referencing then by calling attention to the 'the other Glorious 12th', if one of them was not the 12th July?

Your logic is letting you down.

I was referring to the title of the thread. Just accept you are wrong on this one. Here’s the orange site and I don’t see it called anything but the twelfth and lots of references to the glorious revolution. http://www.grandorangelodge.co.uk/The-traditions-of-parades#.XWul2CTTWEc

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I was referring to the title of the thread. Just accept you are wrong on this one. Here’s the orange site and I don’t see it called anything but the twelfth and lots of references to the glorious revolution. http://www.grandorangelodge.co.uk/The-traditions-of-parades#.XWul2CTTWEc

How long did that take me?

The senior Orangeman added: “We continue to welcome an increasing number of international visitors to our celebrations who are keen to experience first-hand the spectacle of the biggest day in the parading calendar. “High calibre music provided by some of the finest marching bands will only add to the festival atmosphere. We look forward to another glorious Twelfth.”

http://www.grandorangelodge.co.uk/news

Edit: Looked at the time stamp on the posts the...took me 2 minutes to find and post about it. You are full of it downcow!

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How long did that take me?




http://www.grandorangelodge.co.uk/news

Edit: Looked at the time stamp on the posts the...took me 2 minutes to find and post about it. You are full of it downcow!

You said it’s referred to as ‘the glorious twelfth’. I am saying it’s not a phrase used or that I’ve heard. Of course I am hoping to see a glorious old firm derby today but no one would suggest it is called ‘the glorious derby’ every year.

Igotadose

downcow wrote: »

You said it’s referred to as ‘the glorious twelfth’. I am saying it’s not a phrase used or that I’ve heard. Of course I am hoping to see a glorious old firm derby today but no one would suggest it is called the glorious derby every year.

http://www.grandorangelodge.co.uk/search.aspx?q=glorious&cx=005210926897469885095%3a1zquedqtjta&cof=FORID%3a9

http://grandorangelodge.co.uk/news.aspx?id=103104#.XWuvlyhKgdU

downcow

Igotadose wrote: »

http://www.grandorangelodge.co.uk/search.aspx?q=glorious&cx=005210926897469885095%3a1zquedqtjta&cof=FORID%3a9

http://grandorangelodge.co.uk/news.aspx?id=103104#.XWuvlyhKgdU

Lol. You done a search of the entire comprehensive OO website for ‘the glorious twelfth’ and you simply confirmed that phrase is not used even once. Now try ‘the glorious revolution’ and my guess is you will find that exact statement many times. And indeed same with ‘the twelfth’. Lol
Thanks for confirming even though I think this is a bit rediculous that you want to argue over what a parade is called.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

You said it’s referred to as ‘the glorious twelfth’. I am saying it’s not a phrase used or that I’ve heard. Of course I am hoping to see a glorious old firm derby today but no one would suggest it is called ‘the glorious derby’ every year.

I have shown you the grandmaster of the OO referring to it as 'the glorious 12th' and it's own (the OO's) Wicki page referring to it as the Glorious 12th.

The only time you have called the use of this phrase/title 'into question' is when you were asked 'what other 'glorious' 12th' you were referring to.

I think the jury will remain out on what your intention was the day you posted that comment downcow.
I withdraw my giving you the benefit of the doubt. I think you were being ambiguous in an offensive way.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have shown you the grandmaster of the OO referring to it as 'the glorious 12th' and it's own (the OO's) Wicki page referring to it as the Glorious 12th.

.

It's own Wiki page? Anyone can add anything to wiki, I would not rely on it as being 100% accurate on everything.
That being said, if some people look on the 12th of July or any other day as being glorious, they have a right to their opinion.

Stop moaning ffs

She’d know. Has wiki open on several tabs 24/7. We know why though

gwalk

So Downcow was the glorious old form derby as glorious as youd hope?

Racist Sectarian Biggots FC 0

Celtic 2

RobMc59

downcow wrote: »

Lol. You done a search of the entire comprehensive OO website for ‘the glorious twelfth’ and you simply confirmed that phrase is not used even once. Now try ‘the glorious revolution’ and my guess is you will find that exact statement many times. And indeed same with ‘the twelfth’. Lol
Thanks for confirming even though I think this is a bit rediculous that you want to argue over what a parade is called.

Talking of parades and I apologise if it`s already been raised,but following the recent parade in Glasgow where saoradh reared it`s ugly head-is it just me who thinks they have done more harm to the chances of a UI or how republicanism is perceived by the general public than anything else( that includes Ireland as well as the UK.)
Events earlier this year in Derry and now this march in Glasgow are`nt good publicity for their supposed cause.If you are a moderate Irish person I doubt the antics of saoradh would encourage you to want them shower as part of your country.What a spectacular own goal!

Stop moaning ffs

RobMc59 wrote: »

Talking of parades and I apologise if it`s already been raised,but following the recent parade in Glasgow where saoradh reared it`s ugly head-is it just me who thinks they have done more harm to the chances of a UI or how republicanism is perceived by the general public than anything else( that includes Ireland as well as the UK.)
Events earlier this year in Derry and now this march in Glasgow are`nt good publicity for their supposed cause.If you are a moderate Irish person I doubt the antics of saoradh would encourage you to want them shower as part of your country.What a spectacular own goal!

Been following that.
None of those attending were even from NI it seems and the ones leading the March got flights back to a Scandinavian country it seems.

Really really bizarre that whole thing.

You’re also mixing up your Republicans. Even if they were the Saoradh scum, they’re scum. They’re not republicans. Basic rabble rousers who only caught a wave by one of them killing poor Lyra.
Every party in the state is a Republican Party. Saoradh are terrorist wannabe scumbags.

Let’s start using he right language and terms for them.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

It's own Wiki page? Anyone can add anything to wiki, I would not rely on it as being 100% accurate on everything.

We got this same excuse about Arlene's page saying she was a member of the OO. Despite downcow ringing her, it has still not been edited.

Maybe somebody should tip off the OO too that their grandmaster is using a 'bogus' phrase as well as their Wiki page. :rolleyes:

Arlene's page is 'locked' too btw...meaning only she or somebody authorised can edit it.

Stop moaning ffs

I’ve now watched three videos of speeches at orange gatherings on YouTube and found ‘our glorious 12th’ in all three

And now I need eye bleach and a lie down

Go to YouTube type glorious 12th


Thousands of orange parade videos.
With our glorious 12th in the title

And downcow has never heard the term.



Riiiiiiiiight

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think the jury will remain out on what your intention was the day you posted that comment downcow.
I withdraw my giving you the benefit of the doubt. I think you were being ambiguous in an offensive way.

My mum always said “as you live yourself, you dread your neighbour”
I always found it fairly accurate ie it’s the person that steals that is most afraid of others stealing. It’s the person that tells lies that doesn’t believe others. Etc. Etc. .

You have joined with ffs and gwalk to accuse me of referring to the killing of my fellow citizens as the glorious twelfth.
So all I can say to you is - as you live yourself, you dread your neighbour!

I find it a quite sickening remark and have no interest in engaging with any of the three of you until you have the courage to sincerely retract what you have said

Beasty

Just to make one thing clear. downcow's post about the "other" glorious 12th was reported. I marked the report as requiring no further action, as the "Glorious 12th", when referred to in August, has been a reference to the start of the Grouse shooting season, and has been a common reference, certainly in the UK, for many decades before the troubles

Now stop discussion of that particular point

Any questions PM me - do not respond to this post in-thread

Thanks

downcow

NIMAN wrote: »

"Several members of the public"?

I think this is trying to hint that it was people opposed to orange parades, whereas all I could see in the video was band members fighting with orangemen.

Anyone see anything else?

Niman. While I accept this is not conclusive and is one side of the story, it would be a strange statement to put out if untrue, knowing that other video will no doubt appear
Seems those that were suggesting it was internal we’re off the mark.

http://www.bandparades.co.uk/archives/70045

RobMc59

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

RobMc59 wrote: »

Talking of parades and I apologise if it`s already been raised,but following the recent parade in Glasgow where saoradh reared it`s ugly head-is it just me who thinks they have done more harm to the chances of a UI or how republicanism is perceived by the general public than anything else( that includes Ireland as well as the UK.)
Events earlier this year in Derry and now this march in Glasgow are`nt good publicity for their supposed cause.If you are a moderate Irish person I doubt the antics of saoradh would encourage you to want them shower as part of your country.What a spectacular own goal!

Been following that.
None of those attending were even from NI it seems and the ones leading the March got flights back to a Scandinavian country it seems.

Really really bizarre that whole thing.

You’re also mixing up your Republicans. Even if they were the Saoradh scum, they’re scum. They’re not republicans. Basic rabble rousers who only caught a wave by one of them killing poor Lyra.
Every party in the state is a Republican Party. Saoradh are terrorist wannabe scumbags.

Let’s start using he right language and terms for them.

I hadn't heard anything about where they were from but what difference does that make anyway?Have you a credible link about where they were from btw?

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

NIMAN wrote: »

"Several members of the public"?

I think this is trying to hint that it was people opposed to orange parades, whereas all I could see in the video was band members fighting with orangemen.

Anyone see anything else?

Niman. While I accept this is not conclusive and is one side of the story, it would be a strange statement to put out if untrue, knowing that other video will no doubt appear
Seems those that were suggesting it was internal we’re off the mark.

http://www.bandparades.co.uk/archives/70045

Well that totally unbiased report CERTAINLY had me convinced to disregard video evidence!

Dytalus

RobMc59 wrote: »

I hadn't heard anything about where they were from but what difference does that make anyway?Have you a credible link about where they were from btw?

Haven't managed to find anything about the Scandinavian angle, but the whole thing is really weird.

So the 'disruption' and what not came from the counter-protestors. The march was, near as I can tell from news articles, peaceful and organised by the "James Connolly Republican Flute Band" (formed in 1976, so they've been around a while apparently). No connection to Saoradh that I can find, but given how irritatingly awful saoradh are I'd wager they came along for 'fun'.

Loyalist protestors started throwing stuff, riot police had to get involved. All pretty nasty. City authorities are saying that peaceful counter-protest is fine but rioting obviously is not. At least they seem to be pretty understanding that saoradh are a horrid group who probably marched with the band specifically to cause trouble (why on Earth were they in Scotland if they're supposedly an NI/ROI political 'party') - they're also looking into altering marching rules. Scotland not being Northern Ireland, they've likely never had to worry about sectarian, republican/loyalist rioting in response to parades frequently in the past. The parade seems to have ticked all the boxes in being peaceful, organised with start/end times, and having permission to march on certain roads. Scotland just doesn't have "will not make the other side angry" as a check box like NI does.

What I can't find is why it was even going ahead. The JCRFB called for other republican bands to join their parade, indicating there's more than one in the country. Is Irish unity and republicanism a thing in Scotland? I know there's a pretty sizable irish community in parts of Scotland, I just didn't know republicanism was a thing there. I wonder if other unity marches have happened before, and this is just the first to have been countered so it's the first we're hearing about.

Capping this off with the obligatory "Saoradh are scum and would be doing republicanism a favour if they vanished forever".

downcow

Dytalus wrote: »

Haven't managed to find anything about the Scandinavian angle, but the whole thing is really weird.

So the 'disruption' and what not came from the counter-protestors. The march was, near as I can tell from news articles, peaceful and organised by the "James Connolly Republican Flute Band" (formed in 1976, so they've been around a while apparently). No connection to Saoradh that I can find, but given how irritatingly awful saoradh are I'd wager they came along for 'fun'.

Loyalist protestors started throwing stuff, riot police had to get involved. All pretty nasty. City authorities are saying that peaceful counter-protest is fine but rioting obviously is not. At least they seem to be pretty understanding that saoradh are a horrid group who probably marched with the band specifically to cause trouble (why on Earth were they in Scotland if they're supposedly an NI/ROI political 'party') - they're also looking into altering marching rules. Scotland not being Northern Ireland, they've likely never had to worry about sectarian, republican/loyalist rioting in response to parades frequently in the past. The parade seems to have ticked all the boxes in being peaceful, organised with start/end times, and having permission to march on certain roads. Scotland just doesn't have "will not make the other side angry" as a check box like NI does.

What I can't find is why it was even going ahead. The JCRFB called for other republican bands to join their parade, indicating there's more than one in the country. Is Irish unity and republicanism a thing in Scotland? I know there's a pretty sizable irish community in parts of Scotland, I just didn't know republicanism was a thing there. I wonder if other unity marches have happened before, and this is just the first to have been countered so it's the first we're hearing about.

Capping this off with the obligatory "Saoradh are scum and would be doing republicanism a favour if they vanished forever".

I am guessing if they were Scandinavian, they were probably in town for the rangers v celtic game which draws some strange people i believe