Can you turn right on red arrow?

Del2005

Maximiliano Mealy Mud wrote: »

That's incredibly stupid. You just need another idiot on the road with the same mentality that decides it's too early for rules that day and plows into somebody.

Like when people used to dip their lights when approaching a junction in rural areas at night, I used ask what if someone else did the same coming the other way.

Skatedude wrote: »

I've seen them popping up all around dublin lately and drivers definitely seem confused as what was wrong with a normal red light with green or amber arrows that we have had for years. Adding a red arrow as well serves no purpose.

the first one i saw is at the start of pottery road in dun laoghaire and cars were going straight through thinking it was a yield, caused a fair few near misses and still does, seen others in the city and Griffith ave. ridiculous issue trying to fix something that wasn't broken.

They aren't confusing. If you can't figure out what a red light, or green, with an arrow pointing in a direction means then you shouldn't be driving.

Tazzimus

Skatedude wrote: »

the first one i saw is at the start of pottery road in dun laoghaire and cars were going straight through thinking it was a yield, caused a fair few near misses and still does, seen others in the city and Griffith ave. ridiculous issue trying to fix something that wasn't broken.

And this is why there are car crashes.
Red lights are still red lights, no matter what shape they are.

K.Flyer

Why is it sooo difficult for some people to understand...
RED Light means STOP, Do Not Go!
And that includes any red arrow pointing Left, Right or Straight ahead.

Edit:
Thinking about it as I have just driven through the city, a lot of the Red Arrows have been replaced over the years with solid red lights to make them more visible. Unfortunately some will still choose to ignore them.

jaxxx

K.Flyer wrote: »

Why is it sooo difficult for some people to understand...
RED Light means STOP, Do Not Go!
And that includes any red arrow pointing Left, Right or Straight ahead.

Edit:
Thinking about it as I have just driven through the city, a lot of the Red Arrows have been replaced over the years with solid red lights to make them more visible. Unfortunately some will still choose to ignore them.

Unfortunately, no amount of changes or laws can be 100% idiot proof

fullstop

DiamondC wrote: »

Yes, you stop on the red arrow. But... "You are not obliged to wait for the green filter arrow to appear provided you get a safe opportunity to turn right before it appears"
Don't think it matters if there's only a green arrow.

Not the same thing that was asked in the OP. He specifically asked were you allowed to turn on red arrow. You're not. The reason for this is usually either that a pedestrian light is greed, or that there is more than one lane to cross. Several examples of each on the N11 in Dublin if you'd like to brush up on your knowledge of how to use junctions.

punisher5112

Autonomous vehicles will end this.....

xabi

Interestingly, I have noticed they changed the red arrow to a solid red recently on one that had only been installed last year.

odyssey06

humberklog wrote: »

Where can i see one of these red arrow lights? I've never seen one.

Dublin 3, coming from Clontarf towards Fairview, taking the right turn onto the Malahide Road.

Henry Ford III

Red means stop. How this can extend to a 5 page discussion is frankly puzzling.

kirving

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Red means stop. How this can extend to a 5 page discussion is frankly puzzling.

All that needs to be said is Arrow > Light. That's a fairly all inclusive and valid statement.

Problem is, it's nigh on impossible to describe a real world scenario using text alone on an internet forum.

grogi

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Red means stop. How this can extend to a 5 page discussion is frankly puzzling.

It means that hat the signs are ambiguous. Drivers don't need PhD in signs, the roads should be self explanatory...

Henry Ford III

grogi wrote: »

It means that hat the signs are ambiguous. Drivers don't need PhD in signs, the roads should be self explanatory...

Ambiguous? What other meaning (other than stop) could any red road signal have?

kirving

grogi wrote: »

It means that hat the signs are ambiguous. Drivers don't need PhD in signs, the roads should be self explanatory...

Exactly. I work in manufacturing. Everything is designed so it can only be put together one way, with absolutely zero ambiguity. Even the possibility of a mistake is eliminated.

Obviously every junction is different, but there are hundreds of different combinations of lights, which really isn't necessary as it can lead to mistakes by drivers more often.

A little off topic, but at first look at this road, a reasonable person could think that the solid, thick white line denotes the centre of the road. Incredibly bad design in my view, I'm sure lots of light controlled junctions are similarly badly designed.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.2835133,-6.34011,3a,75y,237.15h,82.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbdcvhzDEVTqWk-xOwbXctg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

creedp

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Red means stop. How this can extend to a 5 page discussion is frankly puzzling.

I hope no one starts a thread about 'when can you turn right with a green arrow?'

Tazzimus

grogi wrote: »

It means that hat the signs are ambiguous. Drivers don't need PhD in signs, the roads should be self explanatory...

Except they're not.
Traffic lights have the same generic design, regardless of the fancy shapes the lights themselves take.
The red one always means stop. I'm not sure how people don't understand that.

If it was blue, maybe I could understand, but red always means stop.

grogi

Tazzimus wrote: »

Except they're not.
Traffic lights have the same generic design, regardless of the fancy shapes the lights themselves take.
The red one always means stop. I'm not sure how people don't understand that..

Traffic lights are designed so people read them. If people cannot read them properly, the design is wrong. Simple as that.

odyssey06

I wouldn't be in favour of having licensed drivers resit actual test, but queries like this makes me wonder about the benefits of having to sit the theory test every X years.

Tazzimus

grogi wrote: »

Traffic lights are designed so people read them. If people cannot read them properly, the design is wrong. Simple as that.

If people cannot read them, they shouldn't be driving, as they're clearly incapable of identifying a red light on a set of traffic lights.

grogi

Tazzimus wrote: »

If people cannot read them, they shouldn't be driving, as they're clearly incapable of identifying a red light on a set of traffic lights.

There is an old saying: if one person tells that you're a horse, ignore it. If the second person tells you the same, start looking for a saddle.

Same applies to this topic (and navigating the roundabouts) - if inability to read the lights was a very rare scenario, you could blame the user. But the discussion here clearly shows that it is not an isolated problem - hence the issue is not with users, but the design. Driving is not an elitists activity - it shouldn't require above intelligence to do it properly.

Below is a bad design. Not only it combines directional and non-directional traffic lights, which is confusing, but also, as other poster mentioned before, if the red directional light goes out of order, it causes a dangerous scenario, as users might only see a non-directional green light and try turning right when they are not supposed to.



In Cork there is one junction that was just renovated and this idiotic scheme was put in place.


Much better designs are with full directional lights. Or a filter light when the right turn light is intended only to relieve the queues turning right.

Tazzimus

grogi wrote: »

There is an old saying: if one person tells that you're a horse, ignore it. If the second person tells you the same, start looking for a saddle.

Same applies to this topic (and navigating the roundabouts) - if inability to read the lights was a very rare scenario, you could blame the user. But the discussion here clearly shows that it is not an isolated problem - hence the issue is not with users, but the design. Driving is not an elitists activity - it shouldn't require above intelligence to do it properly.

Below is a bad design. Not only it combines directional and non-directional traffic lights, which is confusing, but also, as other poster mentioned before, if the red directional light goes out of order, it causes a dangerous scenario, as users might only see a non-directional green light and try turning right when they are not supposed to.



In Cork there is one junction that was just renovated and this idiotic scheme was put in place.


Much better designs are with full directional lights. Or a filter light when the right turn light is intended only to relieve the queues turning right.

Roundabouts is a whole other topic that I won't get started on.
Driving should include some intelligence, you're driving roughly 1500kg of metal at speed. If you can't read something as simple as a traffic light, you should be on a bus, or walking.

Each of those examples are extremely easy to read by the way, I cannot fathom peoples difficulty with them.
And what worries me more, is so many people seemingly can't read something that is basically the same thing, just shaped a bit differently.

Spook_ie

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Exactly. I work in manufacturing. Everything is designed so it can only be put together one way, with absolutely zero ambiguity. Even the possibility of a mistake is eliminated.

Obviously every junction is different, but there are hundreds of different combinations of lights, which really isn't necessary as it can lead to mistakes by drivers more often.

A little off topic, but at first look at this road, a reasonable person could think that the solid, thick white line denotes the centre of the road. Incredibly bad design in my view, I'm sure lots of light controlled junctions are similarly badly designed.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.2835133,-6.34011,3a,75y,237.15h,82.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbdcvhzDEVTqWk-xOwbXctg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Yeah you'd think they might paint arrows or something, oh wait they did
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.2835133,-6.34011,3a,75y,237.15h,82.59t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sbdcvhzDEVTqWk-xOwbXctg!2e0
Can't get the link to show 25 m or so before but you can scroll it

Isambard

OK so red is not good for you all, what colour would you like?

grogi

Kevin Irving wrote: »

A little off topic, but at first look at this road, a reasonable person could think that the solid, thick white line denotes the centre of the road. Incredibly bad design in my view, I'm sure lots of light controlled junctions are similarly badly designed.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.2835133,-6.34011,3a,75y,237.15h,82.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbdcvhzDEVTqWk-xOwbXctg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Excellent post. In many places in Europe you would not get a solid line dividing different direction of traffic. Instead they use double solid. But somehow in Ireland we refuse to learn from others and adapt their solutions.


My favourite is however this one... Which way does the middle lane go?! Despite driving there almost every day, I had to think a really long while.

Tazzimus

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Exactly. I work in manufacturing. Everything is designed so it can only be put together one way, with absolutely zero ambiguity. Even the possibility of a mistake is eliminated.

Obviously every junction is different, but there are hundreds of different combinations of lights, which really isn't necessary as it can lead to mistakes by drivers more often.

A little off topic, but at first look at this road, a reasonable person could think that the solid, thick white line denotes the centre of the road. Incredibly bad design in my view, I'm sure lots of light controlled junctions are similarly badly designed.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.2835133,-6.34011,3a,75y,237.15h,82.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbdcvhzDEVTqWk-xOwbXctg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Ah lads..

It has bus lane in big white letters.
Is this how little people pay attention when they're driving?