Can you turn right on red arrow?

BilboBagOfCans · 06-07-2019 07:12PM #1

Coming from ashtown today on Dublin bus and we came to a small junction with an arrow for going straight and an arrow for turning right. When the arrow went free for going straight, the arrow for turning right was still red, however the driver made the turn.
I thought if you wanted to turn right you could do so if it was just a green light (not an arrow) and if there was a red arrow for going right you couldn't?
Thanks

XsApollo · 06-07-2019 07:14PM

If it’s red you can’t.
If it was a flashing arrow you can go but you are yielding to oncoming traffic.

Dial Hard · 06-07-2019 07:43PM

Nope, and you can't even enter the junction. Red right arrow means stay behind the line til it goes green.

Boxcar_Willie · 06-07-2019 08:58PM

They have a "free left turn on red " in the US .

There's no equivalent here .

Holy Duck · 06-07-2019 09:31PM

Dial Hard wrote:

Nope, and you can't even enter the junction. Red right arrow means stay behind the line til it goes green.

So its the same as a red light, what's the point of the arrow?

fullstop · 06-07-2019 10:09PM

Holy Duck wrote: »

So its the same as a red light, what's the point of the arrow?

Really?!! You realise on a lot of junctions you’ll have a green arrow and red for straight on, hence the reason for the arrow.

cython · 06-07-2019 10:12PM

Boxcar_Willie wrote: »

They have a "free right turn on red " in the US .

There's no equivalent here .

FYP. Left on red would be our equivalent that doesn't exist, after all.

06-07-2019 10:16PM

Holy Duck wrote: »

So its the same as a red light, what's the point of the arrow?

More often than not (in fact, the only time I think I ever see this?) is when there's a pedestrian crossing that has it's own lights, to the right of the junction.

So the traffic can go left and striaght, but traffic can't turn right as the pedestrians on that side would have a green light and you'd run them over.

Charles Babbage · 06-07-2019 10:31PM

Why on earth would they go to the trouble of having a red arrow just so people could ignore it?
They need traffic light cameras here.

Holy Duck · 07-07-2019 02:48AM

fullstop wrote:

Really?!! You realise on a lot of junctions youâ€™ll have a green arrow and red for straight on, hence the reason for the arrow.

Yes, but why a red arrow, red means stop, arrow or not

Guy:Incognito · 07-07-2019 02:50AM

Holy Duck wrote: »

Yes, but why a red arrow, red means stop, arrow or not

Because the right turn can be green while the straight ahead can be red.

It should idiot proof the signals but clearly not as people still dont understand and drive through them.

Lackadaisical · 07-07-2019 02:54AM

No you can't and they are often red because there's a green pedestrian crossing associated with them.

There's no turn on red here.

The red arrows are generally more abundantly clear about what not to do than a full red and green arrows and they allow more flexible junction setup.

Inexcusable for a bus driver to break a red light. Public service vehicle with passengers and a large vehicle that can't stop very suddenly. That kind of driving could kill a pedestrian crossing on a green signal.

Holy Duck · 07-07-2019 03:26AM

So red means stop, red arrow means definitely stop, don't get it, anyway I'm going straight..... to bed

Riva10 · 07-07-2019 06:55AM

BilboBagOfCans wrote: »

Coming from ashtown today on Dublin bus and we came to a small junction with an arrow for going straight and an arrow for turning right. When the arrow went free for going straight, the arrow for turning right was still red, however the driver made the turn.
I thought if you wanted to turn right you could do so if it was just a green light (not an arrow) and if there was a red arrow for going right you couldn't?
Thanks

If you drive for Dublin Bus you can ignore all red lights. I thought everyone knew that.

grogi · 07-07-2019 09:56AM

Holy Duck wrote: »

So its the same as a red light, what's the point of the arrow?

Directional light overrides nondirectional one:

* Red arrow forbids turning in that direction, even if there is a generic green.
* Green arrow allows turning when generic red is on.

J_R · 09-07-2019 08:10AM

Hi

Red filter light ? sounds very idiotic. A full red and full green together with appropriate green filter lights should be sufficient to control any junction.

When erecting this red filter I wonder if any provision was made for colour-blind drivers.

Del2005 · 09-07-2019 08:32AM

J_R wrote: »

Hi

Red filter light ? sounds very idiotic. A full red and full green together with appropriate green filter lights should be sufficient to control any junction.

When erecting this red filter I wonder if any provision was made for colour-blind drivers.

If they are colour blind then they won't see the big red circle traffic light, so not seeing the filter arrow will be the same issue which they managed to overcome.

J_R · 09-07-2019 08:42AM

Del2005 wrote: »

If they are colour blind then they won't see the big red circle traffic light, so not seeing the filter arrow will be the same issue which they managed to overcome.

Hi,

do you mean that there is a red circular light AND the red filter light lit at same time. ?

(Colour-blind people can see lights OK, they can distinguish whither they are lit or not, its just that they sometimes do not know what colour. They know by the position of the lights on the pole what colour)

would the OP please post the Google maps co-ordinates

DiamondC · 09-07-2019 08:49AM

https://www.theaa.ie/blog/a-minority-of-motorist-need-more-discipline-when-it-comes-to-traffic-lights-says-aa/

"5. If turning right at traffic lights where there is a right facing arrow, you can drive into the junction when the traffic lights turn green, making sure not to obstruct the flow of oncoming traffic. When it is safe to do so, complete your right hand turn. You are not obliged to wait for the green filter arrow to appear provided you get a safe opportunity to turn right before it appears."

CelticRambler · 09-07-2019 08:50AM

Deleted User wrote: »

More often than not (in fact, the only time I think I ever see this?) is when there's a pedestrian crossing that has it's own lights, to the right of the junction.

So the traffic can go left and striaght, but traffic can't turn right as the pedestrians on that side would have a green light and you'd run them over.

Point of interest for continental (esp French) driving: the default setting is that the pedestrian lights to the left/right are green when you also have green; but you don't have the right to run them over!

punisher5112 · 09-07-2019 08:57AM

Fairview junction onto malahide road has one now coming from howth direction...

They use to be allowed to enter the junction as it was a green circular light plus an arrow to allow onto malahide road.

garv123 · 09-07-2019 09:07AM

DiamondC wrote: »

https://www.theaa.ie/blog/a-minority-of-motorist-need-more-discipline-when-it-comes-to-traffic-lights-says-aa/

"5. If turning right at traffic lights where there is a right facing arrow, you can drive into the junction when the traffic lights turn green, making sure not to obstruct the flow of oncoming traffic. When it is safe to do so, complete your right hand turn. You are not obliged to wait for the green filter arrow to appear provided you get a safe opportunity to turn right before it appears."

But if there is a red filter arrow, you stop. a lot of junctions just have a green filter arrow with no red arrow.

DiamondC · 09-07-2019 09:14AM

Yes, you stop on the red arrow. But... "You are not obliged to wait for the green filter arrow to appear provided you get a safe opportunity to turn right before it appears"
Don't think it matters if there's only a green arrow.

The J Stands for Jay · 09-07-2019 09:19AM

Riva10 wrote: »

If you drive for Dublin Bus you can ignore all red lights. I thought everyone knew that.

Just like taxi drivers, but they can also park anywhere as long as they put on their hazard lights.

hi5 · 09-07-2019 09:30AM

An explanation from a NZ site...(I know, not Ireland)

Extra precautionary seems to be the reason.

Intersections which are busy, have fast-moving traffic, have two or more lanes in either direction or have restricted visibility are more likely to have a red turning arrow to prevent drivers from making ill-judged decisions. It also allows for right-turning traffic to definitely turn and, with the use of sensors in the road (a magnetic induction loop), means that the turn signal only needs to be activated when there are vehicles waiting if there is a dedicated right-turn lane or bay.

https://www.drivingtests.co.nz/roadcode-questions/car/core/you-are-turning-right-at-traffic-signals/

Isambard · 09-07-2019 11:49AM

DiamondC wrote: »

Yes, you stop on the red arrow. But... "You are not obliged to wait for the green filter arrow to appear provided you get a safe opportunity to turn right before it appears"
Don't think it matters if there's only a green arrow.

yes but it was the AA said that, they are an Insurance Company basically.

If there's a green general light and a red right arrow you have to stop.There generally isn't a co-responding green arrow , so you may proceed when the red arrow goes off if the main light is green.

Personally I think these red arrows just add confusion to a system that worked well for years. One example there would be , if the red arrow failed, the general green light would make you think you can proceed when you don't have priority. It isn't fail-safe in other words.

DiamondC · 09-07-2019 12:15PM

The AA are quoting from the RSA Rules of the Road..
See the Rules of the Road here: http://www.rotr.ie/Rules_of_the_road.pdf
Page 104:
"A green arrow (also known as a filter light) means that you may move on in the
direction of the arrow, assuming it is safe and the way is clear, even if a red
light is also showing.
If you wish to turn right at a set of traffic lights that has an arrow to the right
(or white rectangular box with white arrow), drive into the junction when you
see a green light. Take care not to block any oncoming traffic. Then, when it is
safe, finish your turn. You should only wait for the filter arrow for turning right
when you are in the junction and if it would be dangerous to finish your turn
before the filter light appears."

grogi · 09-07-2019 12:31PM

Isambard wrote: »

Personally I think these red arrows just add confusion

Agreed.

What we should have is either only a green filter light or a completely separate set of lights for given direction - with arrows on red, amber and green - without any non-directional lights.

I personally hate when the red light is without any arrows, but the green is directional. Happens a lot that I am staring at the wrong red.

Exp. https://goo.gl/maps/ZD5tEy3p7UYB8agS8

dulpit · 09-07-2019 12:35PM

There's a junction in Cork that has this. Red/Green straight ahead arrow and a second green for turning right. The lights for straight on are green much longer than those for turning right, I have more than once had somebody sit on their horn behind me because I was at top of the queue turning right and the lights are green for straight ahead but red for turning right. The setup makes sense to me though:

https://www.google.ie/maps/@51.9010461,-8.4791579,3a,75y,253.21h,97.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1huRfYXdhD8qFva0o5UVYg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

grogi · 09-07-2019 12:37PM

dulpit wrote: »

There's a junction in Cork that has this. Red/Green straight ahead arrow and a second green for turning right. The lights for straight on are green much longer than those for turning right, I have more than once had somebody sit on their horn behind me because I was at top of the queue turning right and the lights are green for straight ahead but red for turning right. The setup makes sense to me though

Yep - it is a filter arrow - this time for going straight.
If the green arrow brakes down, nothing dangerous happens really.

Tazzimus · 09-07-2019 01:43PM

Two pages on if you can break a red light? We're not in America.

Can you turn right on red arrow?

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