Can you turn right on red arrow?

09-07-2019 01:50PM

dulpit wrote: »

There's a junction in Cork that has this. Red/Green straight ahead arrow and a second green for turning right. The lights for straight on are green much longer than those for turning right, I have more than once had somebody sit on their horn behind me because I was at top of the queue turning right and the lights are green for straight ahead but red for turning right. The setup makes sense to me though:

https://www.google.ie/maps/@51.9010461,-8.4791579,3a,75y,253.21h,97.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1huRfYXdhD8qFva0o5UVYg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Same at a junction in Tallagh village.
If you do break the red light (which people do) you cross a pedestrian crossing that has a green man,so very dangerous.

Isambard · 09-07-2019 01:55PM

DiamondC wrote: »

The AA are quoting from the RSA Rules of the Road..
See the Rules of the Road here: http://www.rotr.ie/Rules_of_the_road.pdf
Page 104:
"A green arrow (also known as a filter light) means that you may move on in the
direction of the arrow, assuming it is safe and the way is clear, even if a red
light is also showing.
If you wish to turn right at a set of traffic lights that has an arrow to the right
(or white rectangular box with white arrow), drive into the junction when you
see a green light. Take care not to block any oncoming traffic. Then, when it is
safe, finish your turn. You should only wait for the filter arrow for turning right
when you are in the junction and if it would be dangerous to finish your turn
before the filter light appears."

well the ROTR are only guidance anyway. Thing is you're answering the wrong question.He isn't asking about a green filter arrow, he's asking about a red one.

GreeBo · 09-07-2019 01:56PM

DiamondC wrote: »

The AA are quoting from the RSA Rules of the Road..
See the Rules of the Road here: http://www.rotr.ie/Rules_of_the_road.pdf
Page 104:
"A green arrow (also known as a filter light) means that you may move on in the
direction of the arrow, assuming it is safe and the way is clear, even if a red
light is also showing.
If you wish to turn right at a set of traffic lights that has an arrow to the right
(or white rectangular box with white arrow), drive into the junction when you
see a green light. Take care not to block any oncoming traffic. Then, when it is
safe, finish your turn. You should only wait for the filter arrow for turning right
when you are in the junction and if it would be dangerous to finish your turn
before the filter light appears."

A red light is different than a red arrow.

If you have a red arrow, irrespective of anything else, you stay behind the line.
If you have a green light you move forward.
If you have a green arrow and a red light you move forward.
If you have a green arrow you move forward.

Lackadaisical · 09-07-2019 02:00PM

Cork City Council uses a lot of red arrows these days and I think they've actually improved things. People don't tend treat a full red and green straight ahead arrow as an indication that they shouldn't turn. You'll always get the moron standing on the horn behind someone who's observing the red correctly.

With the red arrows it's a lot more clear that you shouldn't turn.

We should use more amber flashing arrows too though. There are several of them around Cork City centre and they work very well in my opinion, particular where you've good vision and relatively balanced traffic flows.

I'm not a fan of the french turn-on-red as it's very often the case that drivers turn without paying much attention to the pedestrian crossing. I've been nearly mowed down plenty of times in Paris and other french cities and I just don't take the green man to mean very much in a lot of cases.

DiamondC · 09-07-2019 02:09PM

I don't think the colour of the filter arrow matters:
"You should only wait for the filter arrow for turning right
when you are in the junction and if it would be dangerous to finish your turn
before the filter light appears."

I believe it means if it is safe to turn right, do so. Otherwise wait for the arrow.

odyssey06 · 09-07-2019 02:11PM

DiamondC wrote: »

I don't think the colour of the filter arrow matters:
"You should only wait for the filter arrow for turning right
when you are in the junction and if it would be dangerous to finish your turn
before the filter light appears."
I believe it means if it is safe to turn right, do so. Otherwise wait for the arrow.

And if you did that, you would knock down the pedestrian crossing at the junction, whose green man has appeared to coincide with the red light that makes it illegal for you to take the turn.

DiamondC · 09-07-2019 02:12PM

Isambard wrote: »

well the ROTR are only guidance anyway. Thing is you're answering the wrong question.He isn't asking about a green filter arrow, he's asking about a red one.

"The current Rules of the Road comply with and reflect the road traffic law as at 6 April 2018"

Are they really only a guidance? genuine question..

DiamondC · 09-07-2019 02:13PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

And if you did that, you would knock down the pedestrian crossing at the junction, whose green man has appeared to coincide with the red light that makes it illegal for you to take the turn.

As stated, if it is safe to turn right, do so. Otherwise wait for the arrow.

Isambard · 09-07-2019 02:14PM

red means stop, it's an absolute...being an arrow means it applies in this direction, you may not turn on red.

Flashing orange is a good idea as it is the equivalent of the US turn on red, but made clearer.

Guy:Incognito · 09-07-2019 02:17PM

DiamondC wrote: »

I don't think the colour of the filter arrow matters:
"You should only wait for the filter arrow for turning right
when you are in the junction and if it would be dangerous to finish your turn
before the filter light appears."

I believe it means if it is safe to turn right, do so. Otherwise wait for the arrow.

That means if you've pulled in to the middle of the junction to wait for the filter, clear the ****ing junction as soon as possible and dont sit there in the middle of it waiting for a filter.

RustyNut · 09-07-2019 02:20PM

DiamondC wrote: »

"The current Rules of the Road comply with and reflect the road traffic law as at 6 April 2018"

Are they really only a guidance? genuine question..

Yes its the law that counts. The ROTR are a good guide to the law as actually reading or even finding the relevant si's is a task harder than anything to do with driving.

Have a read through this, it's what really counts, along with more legalese gobbledygook that keeps lawyers in maseratis.

Tazzimus · 09-07-2019 02:20PM

DiamondC wrote: »

As stated, if it is safe to turn right, do so. Otherwise wait for the arrow.

No it is not. That's breaking a red light

Marcusm · 09-07-2019 02:26PM

RustyNut wrote: »

Yes its the law that counts. The ROTR are a good guide to the law as actually reading or even finding the relevant si's is a task harder than anything to do with driving.

Have a read through this, it's what really counts, along with more legalese gobbledygook that keeps lawyers in maseratis.

Following the Rules of the Road would be a strong defence to an accusation of breaking the law. While they do not have the force of law they will be regarded as a persuasive interpretation of the law especially as they are expressly prepared by a government agency for that purpose.

Isambard · 09-07-2019 02:28PM

Marcusm wrote: »

Following the Rules of the Road would be a strong defence to an accusation of breaking the law. While they do not have the force of law they will be regarded as a persuasive interpretation of the law especially as they are expressly prepared by a government agency for that purpose.

yes but not if the interpreter is reading a passage clearly intended for green arrows and claiming the same applies to red ones.

DiamondC · 09-07-2019 02:56PM

I stand corrected.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1964/si/294/made/en/print

13 Traffic lights
13.—(1) Subject to paragraph (4) of this bye-law, a driver facing a traffic light lamp which shows a red light shall not proceed beyond the stop line at that light or, if there is no such stop line, beyond that light.

(2) A driver facing a traffic light lamp which shows an amber light while no other traffic light lamp (immediately above or below) shows any light, shall not proceed beyond the stop line at that light (or, if there is no such stop line, beyond the light) save when the vehicle is so close to the stop line when the amber light shows that the vehicle cannot safely be halted before crossing the stop line.

(3) A driver facing a traffic light lamp which shows a green light (other than a green arrow) may, in accordance with these bye-laws, proceed past that light.

(4) A driver facing a traffic light lamp which shows a lighted green arrow may, in accordance with these bye-laws, proceed in the direction indicated by the arrow, notwithstanding that another traffic light lamp facing the driver shows a red light.

Although certain Maserati drivers may interpret this differently...

jaxxx · 09-07-2019 03:01PM

This is why everyone should be re-tested at least for the basics every few years (5-10 maybe), instead of just once and you're set for life...

dulpit · 09-07-2019 03:24PM

DiamondC wrote: »

I don't think the colour of the filter arrow matters:
"You should only wait for the filter arrow for turning right
when you are in the junction and if it would be dangerous to finish your turn
before the filter light appears."

I believe it means if it is safe to turn right, do so. Otherwise wait for the arrow.

Hang on, so if there is a set of lights with a red, amber, green straight ahead arrow and green arrow right, and you drive up and have it red with green striahgt arrow (indicating you can go straight ahead but not right), you think you can turn right if it's safe to do so?

DiamondC · 09-07-2019 03:56PM

What I think seems to be irrelevant .. as others have stated, and as the law states, you cannot proceed through a red.

jaxxx · 09-07-2019 04:07PM

DiamondC wrote: »

What I think seems to be irrelevant .. as others have stated, and as the law states, you cannot proceed through a red.

Mind = Blown

If it isn't an amber arrow, it isn't a filter. QED

DiamondC · 09-07-2019 04:25PM

Yeah - it's mad alright...

humberklog · 09-07-2019 04:36PM

Where can i see one of these red arrow lights? I've never seen one.

xabi · 09-07-2019 04:36PM

4 pages, im amazed at the lack of understanding of a simple concept.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 09-07-2019 04:38PM

It's a wonder how people make it though their daily lives when they cannot comprehend such a simplistic rule.

BarryD2 · 09-07-2019 04:39PM

jaxxx wrote: »

This is why everyone should be re-tested at least for the basics every few years (5-10 maybe), instead of just once and you're set for life...

The thing about traffic lights is that they only really make sense when there is traffic. Presumably in the OP case, there was no traffic coming towards the bus driver and no pedestrian crossing the road they wanted to turn right onto, hence no hazard. Technically they may have broken the law but in practical terms have done nothing that endangered anyone.

Such a junction could be found in many rural areas with no traffic lights and here drivers just use common care & sense.

Tazzimus · 09-07-2019 04:49PM

BarryD2 wrote: »

The thing about traffic lights is that they only really make sense when there is traffic. Presumably in the OP case, there was no traffic coming towards the bus driver and no pedestrian crossing the road they wanted to turn right onto, hence no hazard. Technically they may have broken the law but in practical terms have done nothing that endangered anyone.

Such a junction could be found in many rural areas with no traffic lights and here drivers just use common care & sense.

Which is still breaking a red light, generally frowned upon....

I know the standard of driving in this country has been getting worse (or maybe 3 years on the M50 every day, I'm just noticing it more) but a red light means stop, not stop, unless there's nothing around.

BarryD2 · 09-07-2019 04:55PM

Tazzimus wrote: »

Which is still breaking a red light, generally frowned upon....

I know the standard of driving in this country has been getting worse (or maybe 3 years on the M50 every day, I'm just noticing it more) but a red light means stop, not stop, unless there's nothing around.

Have you ever driven around in an Irish city/ town at 4 & 5 am? Unless people have become very law abiding in the last decade, my experience was that drivers tend to treat many traffic light controlled junctions as 'yield' - they'll slow down and check for other vehicles but if there's no traffic, there's no point in waiting for a green and on they go.

Tazzimus · 09-07-2019 04:58PM

BarryD2 wrote: »

Have you ever driven around in an Irish city/ town at 4 & 5 am? Unless people have become very law abiding in the last decade, my experience was that drivers tend to treat many traffic light controlled junctions as 'yield' - they'll slow down and check for other vehicles but if there's no traffic, there's no point in waiting for a green and on they go.

A couple of times yeah, and I'll wait it the light is red. They're generally on a different sequence at that hour so will change much quicker.

Breaking a red light at 5am is still breaking a red light.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 09-07-2019 05:00PM

BarryD2 wrote: »

The thing about traffic lights is that they only really make sense when there is traffic. Presumably in the OP case, there was no traffic coming towards the bus driver and no pedestrian crossing the road they wanted to turn right onto, hence no hazard. Technically they may have broken the law but in practical terms have done nothing that endangered anyone.

Such a junction could be found in many rural areas with no traffic lights and here drivers just use common care & sense.

That's incredibly stupid. You just need another idiot on the road with the same mentality that decides it's too early for rules that day and plows into somebody.

Marcusm · 09-07-2019 05:22PM

Isambard wrote: »

yes but not if the interpreter is reading a passage clearly intended for green arrows and claiming the same applies to red ones.

I absolutely agree that the OP’s answer is clearly no!

Skatedude · 09-07-2019 05:55PM

humberklog wrote: »

Where can i see one of these red arrow lights? I've never seen one.

I've seen them popping up all around dublin lately and drivers definitely seem confused as what was wrong with a normal red light with green or amber arrows that we have had for years. Adding a red arrow as well serves no purpose.

the first one i saw is at the start of pottery road in dun laoghaire and cars were going straight through thinking it was a yield, caused a fair few near misses and still does, seen others in the city and Griffith ave. ridiculous issue trying to fix something that wasn't broken.

Can you turn right on red arrow?

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