Random EV thoughts.....

zg3409 · 02-08-2023 11:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120932148#Comment_120932148

Are you iphone or Android?

slave1 · 02-08-2023 11:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120932351#Comment_120932351

.and what App do you use to show Kona battery stats please?

coolbeans · 02-08-2023 11:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120932782#Comment_120932782

Android.

the_amazing_raisin · 03-08-2023 8:54am

There's some interesting analysis of Toyota's EV "strategy" here

https://www.electrive.com/2023/08/02/debunking-toyota-the-bev-strategy-of-the-worlds-largest-car-manufacturer/

Long story short, there's a lot of marketing but very little on the details

For example Toyota claim to be developing a 1,000km EV, but don't make clear exactly how to achieve that range. Speed limits in Japan are limited to 100km/h so the cars gain efficiency there and WLTP ranges are longer

They also mentioned "cruising range" which doesn't correspond to any range test cycle. So if you got 12kWh/100km driving at 100km/h and a 120kWh battery then you've 1,000km range.... except you don't

Other aspects of their strategy also got rubbished for not having any details, like the 10 mins recharge time. It's generally accepted that a 10-80% charge is only capable in 10 mins using fully solid state batteries, but it doesn't seem likely Toyota will have those deployed at scale by 2027

So using semi solid batteries you're looking at more like 20 mins which is already in the realm of some cars today

I think the closing line really hit home, Toyota doesn't need to be Tesla, they don't need exciting high tech cars but need to focus on making reliable, affordable and efficient EVs. So far with the bz4x they've largely failed to do that, hopefully they pull it out of the fire before they go bust

DrPsychia · 03-08-2023 9:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120933394#Comment_120933394

While I really dislike Toyota for their self charging marketing and awful pace of BEV development, they are a long way from going bust imo. Keep in mind that outside of world's richest countries there are a whole lot less fortunate nations/continents with relatively poor infrastructure and which the majority of the population can't afford a BEV such as South America, South East Asia, Africa, parts of middle East. Toyota is still very popular in wealthy nations but that will slowly change over the coming couple decades.

the_amazing_raisin · 03-08-2023 10:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120933570#Comment_120933570

Yes absolutely true, however they have effectively been kicked out of one of their biggest markets (China) due to not having any competing EVs to sell

So while I agree they won't go bust, their time as the world's largest car company could be coming to an end

ELM327 · 03-08-2023 10:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120933394#Comment_120933394

I wouldnt be so sure on needing solid state batteries to get 10 mins 10-80%. The Taycan is already at 17-18 minutes for that in ideal conditions, if it could maintain the 270kW for longer or have a higher initial peak (get some cobalt back in batteries!) I think it would be mathematically possible at least without solid state. If you put the Ioniq28 C rate on some larger packs like the taycan, I'd say it gets close to 10 minutes!

the_amazing_raisin · 03-08-2023 10:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120933661#Comment_120933661

Yeah true enough and they did mention in the article that there were batteries available now which could handle that, although that's as much down to the enormous cooling system than cell chemistry

I think the main issue was with the vagueness of the 10 mins claim. You can charge any EV in 10 mins technically, just plug it in for the allotted time and then unplug it. The big difference is in how much you got 😁

So are Toyota doing a typical 10-80% charge in 10 mins like most other manufacturers, or again is it more wonder maths like just applying the max charging speed to 60% of the pack size and ignoring the fact that's not how batteries work

innrain · 03-08-2023 11:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120932807#Comment_120932807

I use Evnotify when I charge the car. I have the app open on an old phone in the car and I can see the charging speed and other things on my personal phone. You need some form of data connection on the old phone. I also connected to ABRP and have it on android auto so one could plan routes better. with live battery values. My 2019 Kona is the one without GPS so in this way I made it a bit "smarter".

Another app, Car scanner is the same Bjorn uses it to have some more info about the car.

ELM327 · 03-08-2023 11:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120933753#Comment_120933753

I'd put nothing past toyota at this point, true!

Could be as simple as the claims made by idiotic journalists like Dim Tim in the times or that annoying one whos name begins with G but i can't remember it now. "These chargers charge at 350kW and you have a 50kWh battery so it will be done in 7 minutes."

ELM327 · 03-08-2023 11:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120933892#Comment_120933892

Theres another called torqueflight or something, usually they are only on android. Bjorn uses the best apps I find, so if he's using it it's probably the best one for that situation

wassie · 03-08-2023 12:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120933661#Comment_120933661

We need new technologies like solid state batteries as soon as possible so we can move away from the need for rare metals, especially cobalt.

The environmental impacts and human costs of mining cobalt in particular are well documented.

unkel · 03-08-2023 12:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120934317#Comment_120934317

We don't need solid state batteries to move away from using rare metals like cobalt and the awful circumstances of mining it. We already got LiFePO4 and soon the even cheaper NaFePO4. These are perfectly fine for use in EVs and home storage

And I disagree with some posters here. Toyota is utterly fooked, they are failing to even sell cars in China, their biggest profit source in the past. For many years the Toyota Corolla was the world's best selling car. Now it is the Tesla Model Y and Toyota barely make any BEVs. Toyota was the world's biggest car maker, soon it will be BYD. Even Tesla will make more cars than Toyota in a few years time. And Japan as an economy is in very dark waters, they won't be able to bail the likes of Toyota out even if they wanted to. I wouldn't be surprised if the company will go bankrupt within a decade.

ELM327 · 03-08-2023 1:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120934317#Comment_120934317

The cobalt comment was half in jest. We need that performance but in a better way. LFP (and other variants as @unkel mentions above) are more resiliant and longer lasting than initial li-ion that was used up to now. I have a feeling that solid state batteries are close to hydrogen in private cars, both are good on paper but we are eons away from getting there and may not get there in our lifetime.

The limitations of LFP are known, cold weather performance, low energy density (leading to higher weight and more space needed). But they can take a pounding and dont have the risks of fire. If we can find a way to get them to safely charge at the same C rate that the ioniq 28 did, we're almost at the 10-12 mins to 80% level

wassie · 03-08-2023 1:29pm

Solid state battery technology may not be that far away, given NIO have announced their semi-solid state battery tech going into production in the ES6 suv. The challenge will be getting the technology to achieve (or get close to) cost parity with current battery chemistry, like current EV tech has to do with fossil fuels. If large-scale production of SS batteries occurs, no doubt electric cars will become mainstream very quickly.

The work Porsche have done with lithium tech certainly is interesting - their other project on carbon neutral synthetic fuels is equally so. My view though is that this may help serve a niche market and help keep ICE motor racing alive.

the_amazing_raisin · 03-08-2023 1:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120934378#Comment_120934378

Personally I'd happily take an EV with LFP cells, the drawbacks don't really worry me and the advantages are absolutely worth it IMO

ELM327 · 03-08-2023 2:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120934559#Comment_120934559

I would and have done so. I think the tech is much better. We have 3 EVs, 2 of them are LFP and one is a heavily degraded 2011 nissan leaf that I bought as a joke.

veryangryman · 03-08-2023 10:50pm

Trying to keep up with all the charger companies now with their separate apps.etc. leaf driver here.

So I have esb account and easygo. Apps for both. What other ones are out there case I ever need them?

On a related note they really need to unify to get more uptake. Being cashless etc is great for me who hates cash but not so much for the older folk or those who don't want to pay tax.

ELM327 · 04-08-2023 9:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120936992#Comment_120936992

Once you have plugshare to find chargers that's all you need. The rest (circle k, applegreen etc) have card payments

creedp · 04-08-2023 9:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120936992#Comment_120936992

Not clear what the relevance of the last category mentioned above in this context?

My issue with multiple operators relates to the requirement that a minimum account balance be maintained before you can charge. Fair enough if one account covers all chargers but unreasonable if multiple operators demand individual balances. Chargers need to be like any other service, rock up plug in and pay by card, end of.

DrPsychia · 04-08-2023 10:12am

I'll be renting a Tesla in Switzerland for a week. Any ideas what chargecards I should sign up for the more remote regions where there no Superchargers nearby? I already have a swisscharge card, should I get EVPass?

veryangryman · 04-08-2023 10:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120937947#Comment_120937947

The last comment was about people who are cash-only. They cant do electric cars with the current charging infrastructure

josip · 04-08-2023 10:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120938078#Comment_120938078

We charged at a place in Macedonia last week. It was originally a CNG site for cars and trucks and recently added a small solar farm and charging station. Not sure if the panels feed the car charger directly. We pulled in, connected the cable and were about to fire up the app, when a guy came over, checked the cable was connected, tapped the charger with his RFI card and asked us how much we wanted? We needed a full charge anyway so we told him 'full'. When we hit 99%, he came back, stopped the charger, disconnected the charging cable and directed us to the kiosk where we could pay either by card or cash. It was all a bit surreal and it was only when we were leaving that we realised he was the regular CNG pump attendant and he was just doing his 'job' 🙂

ELM327 · 04-08-2023 10:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120938078#Comment_120938078

"Cash only" people will go the same way as "no mobile phone" people.

creedp · 04-08-2023 11:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120938078#Comment_120938078

In all fairness if you're predisposed to embracing new technology such as EVs, it's a big incongruous that you're not prepared to engage fully with what is now a very mature technology

MightyMunster · 04-08-2023 12:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120938056#Comment_120938056

Check out your route on abetterrouteplanner, Switzerland is a small country and one charge should get you from end to the other I would have thought. Unless you're planning on camping in the car I doubt you'll have an issue.