Random EV thoughts.....

zg3409 · 14-03-2022 03:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781998#Comment_118781998

The fee to fill up your car in electric us far less than say Petrol or Diesel, particularly if you have a long daily commute and you can charge at home overnight on night rate. I used to do 110km per day for about 2 euro, that's 20kWh of energy at 10cent per unit. Public chargers are typically 3 or 4 or 7 times the price of night rate. Main issue is public chargers are often busy, blocked or broken. There are no real signs enough are going to rolled out to meet demand so situation will get worse. If you can avoid public charging on daily trips then an EV is great. Beware claimed range on EVs. Real world winter range is less than the claim with most new EVs struggling to make 300km in winter at full motorway speeds. Then they typically need nearly an hour to fill up again, if you need to keep going much further. Often at peak times the chargers have 1+ hour queues. They can be great money savers but do the real world research.

RandomViewer · 14-03-2022 06:26PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118782842#Comment_118782842

Wouldn't the Yaris be worth more than the Renault?

AndyBoBandy · 14-03-2022 06:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118784568#Comment_118784568

It’s a 2012, and they seem to be going for in or around €7-€8k, so I think we’d do well to get maybe €5k for it.

the_amazing_raisin · 14-03-2022 09:58PM

https://www.electrive.com/2022/03/12/fraunhofer-study-hydrogen-will-not-play-a-major-role-in-road-transport/

Bit of a rambling article this one, but basically it's not looking good for hydrogen trucks based on some reports

Seems the advantage for electric trucks is based on the deployment of megawatt scale chargers

That'd be some undertaking, but versus deploying a hydrogen fueling network it seems a lot simpler and safer

One very good point was that there are already more battery electric trucks in use than hydrogen ones and the number is growing

It'll be interesting to see which way it goes, several companies have vet on hydrogen whereas others have bet on batteries. Who will win, and who will go bankrupt?

MightyMunster · 14-03-2022 10:07PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781998#Comment_118781998

I would say you're over thinking the charging costs, cost to fill isn't really a thing as you're normally just topping up rather than empty to full.

Mileage of 40,000 per year

EV costs:

For the likes of an Ioniq 5 take 20kwh/100km.

Cost @€0.10/kWh is €2.

Per year is €800

Diesel @ 6l/100km

Cost €2/l is €12

Per year is €4,800

Some rough maths there but looks like a saving of around 4k per year so even if you have to pay 100-200 a year in fast chargers you're still saving thousands.

unkel · 15-03-2022 01:24AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118785522#Comment_118785522

Thanks for sharing. I've been saying that for years but very few seemed to believe me. The only form of transport that could possibly be powered by hydrogen is ships.

the_amazing_raisin · 15-03-2022 09:10AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118786424#Comment_118786424

Aircraft? I remember reading somewhere that the energy density needed for a long haul airliner is right at the theoretical limit of solid state batteries, so probably not going to be achieved for a long while

For trucks I think there has to be a mentality change like for EVs. Assuming a good charging network gets rolled out that can support electric trucks, there's probably still going to be some time lost to recharging

Time lost means fewer deliveries and lost revenue. The thing is, does the savings in fuel offset that?

Some googling tells me that a HGV consumes 30-40l/100km of diesel. Averaging to 35l/100km at €2/l gives €70/100km or €0.70/km

Couldn't find much on electric truck consumption but if you need 800kW to give 500km range in 45mins then that's roughly a 1MW battery and 200kWh/100km

The electricity cost is a tricky one to figure out. Fast charging will be expensive and overnight charging will still need a 100kW connection, so probably more expensive than domestic rates. On the other hand you can sell power back to the grid at peak times, making some money back. Let's assume it averages out to €0.20/kWh

So total cost for the electric truck is €40/100km or €0.40/km, about half the diesel truck

I would imagine halving your fuel costs would more than offset losing maybe an hour's delivery time per day. The big question is the electricity prices, they're the crucial factor

There would also need to be large scale rollout of megawatt scale truck chargers, and 100kW chargers at truck depots for overnight charging

the_amazing_raisin · 16-03-2022 08:24PM

https://www.electrive.com/2022/03/16/bristol-city-council-launches-free-electric-vehicle-loan-scheme/

Smart move by Bristol council, loaning out electric vans to local businesses on a trial basis (kind of hard to tell from the article whether it's just launched or has been running for 2 years)

It'd be a great way to figure out how to make an electric van work without any if the risks involved

They're also paying businesses who change from a diesel to electric van £1000 per charger installed on top of government grants

That would certainly provide some incentive to fleet operators and even small businesses

Bif · 16-03-2022 09:35PM

Thinking of buying a 50kwh Zoe GT as a second EV. Has anybody here any experience, good or bad, of them? Thanks.

Manion · 16-03-2022 09:38PM

The Zoe is death trap apparently. Have a search online for it's safety rating

zg3409 · 19-03-2022 10:55AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118795502#Comment_118795502

That was based on car not having some fancy computerized safety systems not on the car.

In terms of Zoe check it has the ccs faster charging as that was an optional extra on some models. The Zoe is a good car, on the smaller side but we'll regarded and reliable. Educate yourself in real winter range and problems when you need to public charge and be realistic. If it suits you will depend on your daily commute and needs.

Bif · 19-03-2022 11:16AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118804831#Comment_118804831

Thanks ZG. It will be used as a second EV in the house for an 80km round trip commute 4 days a week and a monthly weekend 160km journey. I like the 22kw A/C charging and the boot is reasonably sized for the class of car. It also seems to be pretty efficient and reliable.

markpb · 19-03-2022 03:35PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118804831#Comment_118804831

It got zero NCAP stars when it was re-certified. That’s more than a lack of active monitoring protection, that’s a complete lack of any kind of protection required from a 2016 car never mind a 2022. Read the full report: https://cdn.euroncap.com/media/66976/euroncap-2021-renault-zoe-datasheet.pdf. It scored spectacularly badly at lateral impact protection, offers almost zero protection to people outside the car and they removed an airbag that was previously there.

Fantana2 · 19-03-2022 04:31PM

Is there a risk with the huge delays you may have no viable option when PCP runs out? Do they keep some cars in reserve for the estimated people coming to the end of their three years?

the_amazing_raisin · 19-03-2022 05:12PM

I'm guessing they're banking on the shortages having cleared up by then. And I imagine the dealership will be ringing you to try and lock in an order well in advance

It's a fair point though, delays happen all the time and I wonder what happens when you run out of time on your PCP. I'm guessing they'll want the final payment or the car back

TitianGerm · 19-03-2022 06:14PM

If stock is short then trade in prices should be well above GMFV.

the_amazing_raisin · 19-03-2022 08:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118806431#Comment_118806431

True, I'm just curious as to what happens if your PCP is up and your new car hasn't arrived. You should have plenty to equity left on the car to cover the final payment, so would they just call it quits and let you drive it until the new car arrives

I'm assuming you would be ordering from the same garage here

TitianGerm · 19-03-2022 08:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118807023#Comment_118807023

They'll refinance the GMFV for you in the dealership and you'll continue to pay this until the new car arrives. You'll have an extra bit of equity then when they finally take it off you.

BorneTobyWilde · 19-03-2022 09:14PM

Is it technically possible to tow a generator behind an electric car and have it so that the batter in car never needs to visit another charger.

markpb · 19-03-2022 09:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118807218#Comment_118807218

Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaGVoB4Zn-Y

It seems to be possible but Tesla (and possibly others) specifically recommended not doing it.

the_amazing_raisin · 19-03-2022 10:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118807218#Comment_118807218

Yeah there was an EV back in the noughties that had a trailer with a petrol generator for long trips. No idea what it was called

The idea is technically feasible, it's called a range extended EV. The BMW i3 Rex is probably the best known example, it has a 25kW motorbike engine which could top up the battery

If you're asking could it be added to an EV as an aftermarket product, not really. The first problem is connecting it to the car's electrical system. You generator will need to output 400-800V DC depending on the car at currents of up to 500A. Electrical regs don't really like using plugs at those levels so you'd be looking at something that needs to be wired in permanently.

Your generator will need to be a fairly powerful one as well, taking the ice example you'd want around 25kW to keep the battery topped up, which kind of rules out your shop bought generator. On top of this you've the problem that most generators are AC, you'll need to convert this to DC for the car which adds expense and losses

A much simpler solution would be to have a generator with a built in EV charger. You could park the car and plug in wherever you want, several examples have already been demonstrated for temporary charging in remote locations

Of course you still have to wait for the car to charge, so beyond availability there's not much advantage. And unless you've a really powerful generator, you'll be charging slowly, so you'd be faster going to a public charger even if there's a queue

FWIW, I actually think range extenders are a really good idea for vehicles that need to operate outside the normal charging network. Off road or emergency vehicles etc. Even heavy trucking to areas with a poor charging network. They get all the benefits of an EV but have the option of switching to the fossil backup if needed

But for Joe Public heading down to Spanish point for the weekend with the family, it's much easier to just pull into the first public charger and grab a coffee and bathroom break while you charge

innrain · 19-03-2022 10:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118807244#Comment_118807244

I think the OP refers to EV towing a diesel generator. I know it it just theoretical but I think it will struggle. A short Google found me this

https://www.thepowerline.co.uk/product/30-kva-road-tow-generator-gs30rt/

1.7t towing is a bit over many EVs and even if it does tow it the energy used would be greater than the one generated. Towing this would require over 30kW at 120km/h.

However, range extenders were present in the evolution of the cars but then never took off properly. Most notable is the BMW i3 Rex. Technically is the most efficient way of using an engine in a car, but...

unkel · 19-03-2022 10:50PM

I made a battery with about 0.5kWh capacity and had a pure sinewave inverter connected to it, combined with the granny charger you could use it as an emergency "petrol can" if you got stuck with a dead car and you needed just a few km to get to a charger

Nowadays you can buy these as all in one systems, I think the Bluetti are popular. Would make a nice Christmas gift to the new EV owner who still suffers a bit from range anxiety 😁

Dead easy to have too around the gaff in case you have a mains power outage. I once powered my airfryer from my eBike's battery 😂

the_amazing_raisin · 19-03-2022 11:07PM

They're handy things but they seriously need to get a bit cheaper. Last time I looked they were close on a grand. Seems like a lot for a bit of backup power

I think the best solution to range anxiety is to drive a Leaf24 for a while. I've seen 7km on the GOM when I was 5km from home and only then decided not to detour for a coffee 🤣

unkel · 20-03-2022 12:17AM

Inverter about €100 for a goodun. Battery, I combined 4 hoover board batteries (7S2P) with built in BMS, they cost about €25 each. So €200 or so in all ;-)

Agree on the Leaf. Have a Fluence (basically the same car, except it can't fast charge at all but at least it's not fug ugly) and in winter the GOM shows about 57km when fully charged. I still drive it everywhere. I like that motor. Very comfy.

RandomViewer · 20-03-2022 11:28AM

Seen a few Teslas over the weekend, paint finish looks poor on them, white especially bad, is this purposely done

innrain · 21-03-2022 11:48AM

Maybe not necessarily EV related. I've stayed one night in Kilkenny right in the center. In the morning the car was covered in a mist of ash. Of course as soon as I started driving rain came down and now the car has a polka dots design all over it. I just wondering is this a normal occurrence? Not worried about the car I'll wash it but we breathe this stuff. Where we live, there are about 5 constructions sites and I'm used to see grime building up but not that fast.