Is there a risk with the huge delays you may have no viable option when PCP runs out? Do they keep some cars in reserve for the estimated people coming to the end of their three years?
It got zero NCAP stars when it was re-certified. That’s more than a lack of active monitoring protection, that’s a complete lack of any kind of protection required from a 2016 car never mind a 2022. Read the full report: https://cdn.euroncap.com/media/66976/euroncap-2021-renault-zoe-datasheet.pdf. It scored spectacularly badly at lateral impact protection, offers almost zero protection to people outside the car and they removed an airbag that was previously there.
Thanks ZG. It will be used as a second EV in the house for an 80km round trip commute 4 days a week and a monthly weekend 160km journey. I like the 22kw A/C charging and the boot is reasonably sized for the class of car. It also seems to be pretty efficient and reliable.
That was based on car not having some fancy computerized safety systems not on the car.
In terms of Zoe check it has the ccs faster charging as that was an optional extra on some models. The Zoe is a good car, on the smaller side but we'll regarded and reliable. Educate yourself in real winter range and problems when you need to public charge and be realistic. If it suits you will depend on your daily commute and needs.
The Zoe is death trap apparently. Have a search online for it's safety rating
Thinking of buying a 50kwh Zoe GT as a second EV. Has anybody here any experience, good or bad, of them? Thanks.
Smart move by Bristol council, loaning out electric vans to local businesses on a trial basis (kind of hard to tell from the article whether it's just launched or has been running for 2 years)
It'd be a great way to figure out how to make an electric van work without any if the risks involved
They're also paying businesses who change from a diesel to electric van £1000 per charger installed on top of government grants
That would certainly provide some incentive to fleet operators and even small businesses
Aircraft? I remember reading somewhere that the energy density needed for a long haul airliner is right at the theoretical limit of solid state batteries, so probably not going to be achieved for a long while
For trucks I think there has to be a mentality change like for EVs. Assuming a good charging network gets rolled out that can support electric trucks, there's probably still going to be some time lost to recharging
Time lost means fewer deliveries and lost revenue. The thing is, does the savings in fuel offset that?
Some googling tells me that a HGV consumes 30-40l/100km of diesel. Averaging to 35l/100km at €2/l gives €70/100km or €0.70/km
Couldn't find much on electric truck consumption but if you need 800kW to give 500km range in 45mins then that's roughly a 1MW battery and 200kWh/100km
The electricity cost is a tricky one to figure out. Fast charging will be expensive and overnight charging will still need a 100kW connection, so probably more expensive than domestic rates. On the other hand you can sell power back to the grid at peak times, making some money back. Let's assume it averages out to €0.20/kWh
So total cost for the electric truck is €40/100km or €0.40/km, about half the diesel truck
I would imagine halving your fuel costs would more than offset losing maybe an hour's delivery time per day. The big question is the electricity prices, they're the crucial factor
There would also need to be large scale rollout of megawatt scale truck chargers, and 100kW chargers at truck depots for overnight charging
Thanks for sharing. I've been saying that for years but very few seemed to believe me. The only form of transport that could possibly be powered by hydrogen is ships.
I would say you're over thinking the charging costs, cost to fill isn't really a thing as you're normally just topping up rather than empty to full.
Mileage of 40,000 per year
EV costs:
For the likes of an Ioniq 5 take 20kwh/100km.
Cost @€0.10/kWh is €2.
Per year is €800
Diesel @ 6l/100km
Cost €2/l is €12
Per year is €4,800
Some rough maths there but looks like a saving of around 4k per year so even if you have to pay 100-200 a year in fast chargers you're still saving thousands.
Bit of a rambling article this one, but basically it's not looking good for hydrogen trucks based on some reports
Seems the advantage for electric trucks is based on the deployment of megawatt scale chargers
That'd be some undertaking, but versus deploying a hydrogen fueling network it seems a lot simpler and safer
One very good point was that there are already more battery electric trucks in use than hydrogen ones and the number is growing
It'll be interesting to see which way it goes, several companies have vet on hydrogen whereas others have bet on batteries. Who will win, and who will go bankrupt?
It’s a 2012, and they seem to be going for in or around €7-€8k, so I think we’d do well to get maybe €5k for it.
Wouldn't the Yaris be worth more than the Renault?
The fee to fill up your car in electric us far less than say Petrol or Diesel, particularly if you have a long daily commute and you can charge at home overnight on night rate. I used to do 110km per day for about 2 euro, that's 20kWh of energy at 10cent per unit. Public chargers are typically 3 or 4 or 7 times the price of night rate. Main issue is public chargers are often busy, blocked or broken. There are no real signs enough are going to rolled out to meet demand so situation will get worse. If you can avoid public charging on daily trips then an EV is great. Beware claimed range on EVs. Real world winter range is less than the claim with most new EVs struggling to make 300km in winter at full motorway speeds. Then they typically need nearly an hour to fill up again, if you need to keep going much further. Often at peak times the chargers have 1+ hour queues. They can be great money savers but do the real world research.
You'd probably pick up a 40kWh for 18/19 so seems a bit pricey to me. Pics are terrible, must have been taken on an old Nokia phone.
I think others have given good answers regarding charging power and different prices
Just wanted to echo that it is unfortunately a bit complicated figuring out how quickly your car will need to charge. Basically the charger and car need to agree on how much power to supply to the car at any given time
So for example if your car can support 125kW and you plug into a 150kW charger, you'll only get 125kW. Similarly if you plug into a 50kW charger, you'll only get 50kW because the charger is limited to that
Another fun topic is charging curves. Basically unlike a fossil car, EVs don't charge at a constant rate. They generally charge faster the lower the battery charge, and they slow down as the battery fills up
For home charging it's a lot simpler since the car is stationary overnight. However, if you fully charged the Ioniq 5 77kWh overnight it would need 11 hours, 2 hours longer than the night rate
So charging costs would be more like:
7kW * 9 hours = 63kWh * €0.0695/kWh = €4.38
7kW * 2 hours = 14 kWh * €0.02413/kWh = €3.38
Total €7.76
That should be enough for 350km range easy. So cost per km for home charging is 2.2c/km
Since you mentioned you drive a lot for work, let's try to factor in some DC charging into the costs
Say of the 40,000km driving, you did 10,000km from DC chargers and the rest from home charging. Assuming a year round consumption of 22kWh/100km this means you'll need 8,800kWh per year, of which 2,200 will be from DC chargers
2200kWh * €0.37/kWh = €814 / 10,000km = €0.0814/km
Doing some averaging out gives me a cost per km of 3.7c/km, or a total cost of €1,474 for electricity
For comparison, a diesel car achieving 5l/100km at €2/l would cost €4,000 per year in fuel, or 10c/km
Not bad when you basically get a free holiday out of switching to an EV 😁
Can anyone tell me what's right/wrong with this 2015 Zoe?
Looking to get my mother into an EV, and shopping around I'm left with 24kW Leaf's and this Zoe.
Budget is €10k but I could probably stretch it a little (trading in a 2012 Yaris) to land the right car.
I assume it's the 22kWh battery in a 2015 Zoe? Range about 100-120km? Battery Owned, No CCS charging is fine, will only be a run around, but even still, it's a 1 hour to fill car on an AC22.
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/renault-zoe-owned-battery-65-kw-88-hp-dynamiqu/27080567\
They actually charged me even though I said no. I'll get it back I'm sure. Currency is CHF which is close enough to EUR
Beside that I must say the charging network in Swiss is just a dream and I think we're at least 10 years behind. Nearly every service station has charging facilities (multiples) and even rest places like below would have "hubs". All the places I stopped had multiple chargers some even multiple networks.
Having a Leaf was sort of "back to the future" moment, because most of the chargers would be 200+kW capable and you're charging at the last charger in a corner at a very old unit at a tenth of the speed. The car was fine, nice interior, quiet, decent power, but stuck in time. Charging with 22kW at 20% SoC never happened to me before. Took moments to realize I had to shift gears to start the car, never figured a way to display the charging rate on the dash and the size of the charging flap made me smile. On the way back I had to drive only 120km from full and it was an absolute relaxing drive. Stopped at golden arches and enjoyed a sundae while charging at "Mc hub" with perfectly designed layout, with all 3 charging standards as outputs. 0.45 CHF kWh and 0.25 CHF per minute after one hour.
I didn't really have time to play with the car as I was there for work and time was a big constrain but I will not be afraid to rent it again should the opportunity arise. The price was same as a manual golf and you really get a higher spec. I'd say though if you don't have experience with EVs you may be in for a surprise.
the battery capacity is measured in kWh and yes the difference of the two Ioniqs is the battery size. It measures the amount of energy one can store in the battery. The rate of charge is measured in kW because it represents how much energy you put in the battery, in the unit of time aka kWh/h =>kW. Yes you got it right prices at one supplier varies depending on the rate of charge or better said power. There is a distinction to be made as chargers are quoted with the maximum power available and not necessarily the power you're going to get. This rate would depend on some factor as battery chemistry, voltage, temperature, state of charge. Here is an interesting article regarding charging of the 2 Ioniqs. Things may be updated since but it is a good start
Usually the "stronger" the charger the more you'll pay. The AC chargers will be cheaper but slow. DC will be more expensive but will be much quicker to charge.
Thanks, I work on the road so would be doing about €40k a year. Looking to go Electric in the next year or so, trying to suss out the cost/benefit.
Am I right in thinking the difference between these two models so is the battery size?
So say a night rate of 10c would cost €5.80 and €7.30 for a full charge at home?
@the_amazing_raisin, when you say "ESB charge 27c/kWh for AC chargers, 30c/kWh for 50kW DC chargers, and 37c/kWh for 150kW DC chargers", is that different rate to do with how much charge you take, or how fast the charge? I've read there's different rate for charge speed on the road too
Tesla charge a little more than that, my two (only) charge sessions so far were 36c and 35c/kWh.
Ah, now you've wandered into the rabbit hole that is charging costs 😁
Unlike petrol or diesel where the variation across the country is probably less than 10%, the difference between the cheapest and most expensive rates is more like 1000%
(Strictly speaking the cheapest method is at home on solar which is free. But then the price difference is infinity%, so let's just skip that)
For home charging use a price comparison site like bonkers.ie and look for the night rate tariffs. Currently the cheapest night rate is 6.95c/kWh
For public charging it's trickier, because how you pay will dictate the price. For example if I use my We Charge card from VW to start an ESB charger then they add on an extra charge for the hassle of handling all those extra days packets
Also some services offer discount rates in exchange for a monthly subscription. They're only really worth it if you're a frequent user
In general the most commonly used networks in Ireland would be ESB, EasyGo, Tesla and Ionity
ESB charge 27c/kWh for AC chargers, 30c/kWh for 50kW DC chargers, and 37c/kWh for 150kW DC chargers
Ionity on the other hand charge a shocking 73c/kWh, but if you buy certain cars you get a discount
I don't know what Tesla charge, I think it's something like 24c/kWh but obviously it's only useful if you have a Tesla (for now)
Charging at home just multiply your unit rate by the number of kWh you want to add to your battery.
On the road Ecars for example are €0.305 for a 50kw charger of €0.37 for a 150kw charger.
Again multiply that by how many kWh you need to complete the journey.
That's more like it. A bit les than 1kWh per minute, so about 50kW, the max of the charger.
I'd be interested to hear more people's experiences on charging.
T-bird, was that a full charge?
What is the best way to find prices of a charge at home and on the road?
I used another one last night whilst on way to Dublin
Your charging session at Applegreen Enfield Services, M4 (Eastbound, 2km before Jnct 9), Kildare has ended. The duration was 00:24:53 and the energy consumed was 22.790.
The cost for the energy was €(6.11)
For reference this is the one you want to use when DC fast charging
Thanks, I'll check out next time and will report back. I wanted the base model but there were none left, so got the next one up and it was there the next day. It's a best of a thing and is a fair jump from the Kona and Leaf I was looking at the week before.
CCS is the right one, and indeed it uses up all your charger port. If you were only getting about 11kW from it, there is something seriously wrong though! Try another one if you can find one near you and report back.
Well wear on the Ioniq 5. The base model is one of a handful or so of EVs that are actually good value right now. My sister in law got one at the start of the year.
