Random EV thoughts.....

slave1

The nationwide outage last time was due to GSM network going down, Vodafone I think. When network goes down the chargers default to no vend which is wrong IMHO as they are potentially leaving lone drivers etc stuck without a way to get home.

Last outage was night of Bruno Mars concert, the missus got home in the wee hours only because an Applegreen EE let her park up against window and granny charge, else she would have been stranded overnight

kanuseeme

Thats terrible.

Manion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118326958#Comment_118326958

That's really splitting hairs.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118333087#Comment_118333087

No it’s not.

Manion

Why does the standing charge cover everything in the distribution network up to but not the meter? Is this just something you just recon?

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118333802#Comment_118333802

Because the cost of the meter is being spread out over a number of years. Most of the standing charge goes towards ESB Networks

Manion

ESBN own the smart meter though. ISKRA have the meter listed as costing around 100 sterling. Including installation costs the upgrade cost to ESBN per meter must be in the low hundreds of Euro.

cannco253

I see that the Shell Fulham station opened today. I wonder who will be the first in Ireland to fully repurpose a petrol station like this?

https://twitter.com/OfficialABQ/status/1471509449680424963?s=20

https://www.shell.co.uk/a-cleaner-energy-future/cleaner-transport/electric-mobility/ev-hub.html

ELM327

It's just greenwashing there though, I think they are charging above 50c per kWh

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118338051#Comment_118338051

It’s not green washing. How much do you think it gusts to provide the facility , infrastructure and electricity?

you are going to charge at home. Occasionally paying a premium isn’t bad.

with fuel pumps they have a much higher volume. Of customers coming into the shop

Cyrus

There are a lot less private driveways in places like fulham aswell.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118338194#Comment_118338194

This is why the model wont work as it is now. Standalone DC charging will never be profitable.

Tesla had it right with the value add on charging network.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118338281#Comment_118338281

Imagine paying 50c per kWh to charge a large battery EV, you're talking 60-80kWh at 50c per kWh, or 30-40 quid. And that's not cheap compared to petrol/diesel anymore. It somewhat works when you charge at home on night rate but for people with no home charging expecting to use this will be sadly disappointed

Fingleberries

But, do they have a subscription like Ionity? Ionity is crazy price at 73c per kw, but with a subscription that can drop to 30c.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118338051#Comment_118338051

If I had a choice between that and the spof of a lot of esb sites... Id be picking that.

cannco253

https://www.shell.co.uk/motorist/ev-charging.html#faq

How do I pay for Shell Recharge? Do I have to be a member?

Shell Recharge operates on a pay-as-you-go basis, with no subscriptions. There are three ways to pay, with a contactless payment card, with the Shell Recharge app or a charge card. The price is the same for each payment method.​

How much does Shell Recharge cost

• Charging at a Shell Recharge charge points costs £0.45/kWh for Shell Recharge rapid chargers and £0.49/kWh for Shell Recharge ultra-rapid chargers in the UK. You can pay using contactless or use the Shell recharge app and card which allow you to keep track of all your charges at Shell and other major providers on the network.
• You’ll only be charged for the electricity you use. As soon as you start charging, your bank pre-authorises (reserves) £20 to ensure it’s available for you to pay with. If you have mobile banking, you may see this amount pop up. When you finish charging, we tell your bank the real amount you spent, they deduct it, and arrange to unreserve the pre-authorised amount. This process can take a few minutes to a few days depending on who you bank with. But if you pay with the Shell Recharge app, there is no pre-authorisation, instead you will receive a monthly invoice to pay with the debit/credit card you have registered your Shell Recharge account against.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118329678#Comment_118329678

I remember a colleague was doing a graduate job at the department of finance or something

He found an external hard drive plugged into one server and asked the supervisior about it and was told not to touch it because he'd take out the whole department of education

So yeah, I'm pretty sure that the whole of Ecars is running of a single laptop running Windows ME 😬

zg3409

I saw this posted elsewhere. 1 billion euro. I think the prices are a bit high for a big rollout, but grid connections and ground works are not exactly cheap. I think number of AC points is a bit low if we supply all on street overnight parking spots.

By the way I think many DC chargers are profitable in Ireland especially on motorway even at ESB low pricing, as they are so busy with few other alternatives. It would be touch and go on low demand sites and on any AC site.

the_amazing_raisin

I feel like a significant amount of that is ESB paying itself for the grid connection charges

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118344117#Comment_118344117

ESBN is a regulated business. Connections can be expensive but are approved by the regulator

cannco253

https://www.audi-mediacenter.com/en/press-releases/world-first-start-of-the-audi-charging-hub-as-an-urban-quick-charing-concept-14454

DrPhilG

What's the max that I can draw from the house? If my car is charging at 7.2, battery charging at 2.4 and basic load around 400w that's a total of 10kW at once. Is that OK?

Busman Paddy Lasty

Most likely 63A so almost 14kW. Your meter might have current rating on it.

innrain

It really depends on your connection which is measured in kVA representing the power available. The actual power used is measured in kW and would be less due to losses. These losses could vary for different apliances but it is generally accepted to be between 0.05 - 0.2

If you want to see the max MIC for your load you can use the formula

MIC *(1-losses)=Load =>MIC =Load/(1-losses)

https://www.electricireland.ie/business/help/billing/what-is-the-maximum-import-capacity-%28mic%29

ESB uses 0.05 for losses but adds a 5% for safetry

MIC = (Maximum Demand / 0.95) x 1.05

For 10kW power you would need some 11kVA MIC which in reality is 12kVA

Dividing 12000 VA by 240V =50A

ELM327

50a?

That doesnt leave much headroom. If I'm charging my EV at 32a and then running my washing machine, dishwasher and tumble dryer at the same time... what happens if I put on a kettle or microwave?

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118355075#Comment_118355075

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118355329#Comment_118355329

The fuse is usually 60A for a standard connection so you can use pretty much all of that. And my voltage is rarely, if ever 240V. I'm usually 220-230V but I know some will see 240V nearer the cities (and hence nearer the power).

In terms of blowing the fuse when you turn on a kettle, you'll have the load sensing charge point to counteract that. It will throttle down when the kettle comes on. Very simple and effective. No issue at all and even less so if you get the enhanced supply which gives you 80A to play with.

Also note that a washing machine and dishwasher dont draw that much power. They have a short timeframe where they heat small amounts of water. The rest of the time when they are spinning, washing etc use very little power.

The dryer is a big one alright though.

ELM327

I have a basic rolec 32a where I am now, I doubt it has load sensing ability. It's not even wired to my fuse box - only to the meter.

Imagine 32a to the car, 10a to the kettle and another 10a to the dryer, plus a couple more amps for washing machine and dishwasher. That's not counting idle load like TVs, phone chargers etc and you're already over 50a and close to 60.

innrain

240V is max voltage and usually calculated for safety reasons. 50A gets you continous usage of course your fuse would be bigger to accout for peak draws and voltage drops. If you use 220V the 12kVA gives you 55A. So in between. The kettle will draw up 10A for few tens of seconds. The rest way less. Probably the hob (ceramic) and the oven would be the biggest consumers in a house after the instant showers. All timed. A 50" inch TV uses around 100W so the current is in 100s mA. Lights, if LEDs, are less than 100W for a house. If you charge overnight mostly none of the above are in use.

garo

The only things that physically limit the power you can draw into your house are the fuses and the wires. And fuses are there to protect the wires. If you draw more than the rated current your wires will overheat and possibly cause a fire. When we say your house is rated for 12kVA there is nothing measuring the watts you are drawing. So you could theoretically exceed 12kVA as long as your fuse (and wires) allow for it.

Based on the type of fuse you have you could draw more than the rated current (and note it's current not power) for a very short period of time before the fuse blows - to several tens of seconds or longer. Ultimately it boils down to how sensitive the fuse installed by ESB is. If it says 60A then there is a good chance a draw over 60A sustained for more than a few seconds will cause it to blow and you'll be left without power until ESB come and fix it.

@innrain The supply voltage being lower at 200V does not mean you can draw more current. That's not how fuses work. The 12kVA is derived using the nominal voltage of 230V. There is a large margin of error so the fuse is likely 60A instead of 12000/230 = 52.17A.

In conclusion, yes if you have a 12kVA supply and you charge at 32A and have your oven, dryer and dishwasher/kettle/toaster on at the same time you will cause the main MCB/RCBO in your consumer unit to trip. You want that to trip before you want the meter fuse to blow because the latter is expensive and involves a wait as only ESB can fix it. The trip switch on the other hand you can flick back yourself.

Manion

All this stuff gets very confusing and overwhelming quickly, it's hard to keep track of what you need as a new person to the EV charger work. You'll be able to get the most out of a charger without without the need to upgrade, however, I would get a load balancing charger to avoid any issue. MCB/RCBOs can and do fail.