Random EV thoughts.....

Irishjg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066466#Comment_118066466

Surprising poor GOM for 80% of 77kwh. Roughly 61kwh. The Korean cousins Niro/Soul/Kona @ 64kwh will return circa 430-450km. I’m not comparing the quality of the cars by the way just surprised by VWs inefficiency. The Id3 is IMO a nicer car.

fits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066963#Comment_118066963

I do 500 km commuting a week of which majority is motorway at max speed. I get about 16 kWh / 100 km. I doubt the Korean cars would be more efficient. Perhaps a Tesla would be.

edit sorry it’s 16.9 kwh/100 km on the commute.

innrain

You're in for a surprise. Kona is as efficient as the model 3. I commute the lenght of M50 with both of them and M3 is marginally better at higher speeds while Kona gets better at city driving. After driving 52.5k km on Kona the average consumption is 15. 3 kWh/100km while M3 after 10.5k km is at 14.8 kWh/100km but tesla didn't go through a winter yet. Also Tesla’s vampire drain is an order of magnitude greater than Kona's.

EV database has a top of the most efficient cars

https://ev-database.org/compare/efficiency-electric-vehicle-most-efficient#sort:path~type~order=.efficiency~number~asc%7Crange-slider-range:prev~next=0~1200%7Crange-slider-acceleration:prev~next=2~23%7Crange-slider-topspeed:prev~next=110~450%7Crange-slider-battery:prev~next=10~200%7Crange-slider-eff:prev~next=100~300%7Crange-slider-fastcharge:prev~next=0~1500%7Cpaging:currentPage=0%7Cpaging:number=9

Kona is one of the most efficient cars with large battery right behind Tesla.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066126#Comment_118066126

I think it's around €2.5k for the grid connection before vat and other works like trenching or infrastructure upgrades

It might be worthwhile for folks renovating, I know of one or two people here needed 3 phase anyway for bigger heat pumps so they went with 3 phase chargers as well

A lot of newer cars can take 11kW on 3 phase, so there is an advantage, but it'll never really pay for itself for EV charging alone

Irishjg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118068243#Comment_118068243

Your figures look very accurate to me Innrain. Spot on Sir.

Roger the cabin boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118068480#Comment_118068480

Absolutely no need for anything more than 1ph 7.2kwh charging for the vast, vast majority of users.

8hrs at 7.2 kwh gives ~ 60kwh of charge. At 15kwh/ 100km, thats enough to get to Dublin and back from Cork.

If you are doing that daily, you are probs a professional driver and will have 3phase anyway.

You can actually get 11kwh from a 1phase supply if your charger and car support it which is even more than enough.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118071884#Comment_118071884

No car here (in Europe) can charge at 11kw on single phase, no charger supports it nor does any cable.

There is a 48amp option in some cars in the US I think

Roger the cabin boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073215#Comment_118073215

Audi's compact charging system has a 1ph, 11kwh version.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073228#Comment_118073228

your gonna have to cite some references there. Unless its using an inverter to change the singe phase to 3 phase, 32amps is the max for chargepoints and cables, In europe.

Roger the cabin boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073261#Comment_118073261

My bad. It's 9.6kw

Not too shabby though.

Black_Knight

The math on 3phase (if it costs €2.5k) could be worth doing if these stupid smart meter rates stay as they are. Only 2 hours of cheap electricity overnight, vs the current 9. Or 9 hours of night rate, but at ~ 12c/kWh.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073311#Comment_118073311

Ah thats the Portable charge point (like a beefed up granny cable). I also think its only for the North American Market, where they dont have much three phase power but really beefy split phase 120/240 (in some places). - I dont think any Etrons in europe charge any faster than 32amps.

I think you can get charge points over there all the way up to 70amps, but the car needs to support it too. The car physically controls the power, not the charge point. It only does the signalling.

The 32amp isnt a limit on the connector, but more of the cables to and from the charge point. (the AC only Zoe's can charge at 43kw on AC, but i dont think you can get them anymore, and the rapid AC is being phased out)

Roger the cabin boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073728#Comment_118073728

Hmm. Fair points.

The info on this stuff takes quite a bit of weeding out i find.

I see no reason for a 7.2kw limit domestically. My shower is ~11kw. Granted, its on the CU side and doesn't run for hours at a time but with proper design, it really shouldn't be an issue.

Still, i think going forward, eventually, batteries will be fine with (commercial) high power DC charging and domestic charging will become a luxury rather than a necessity, used for trickle charging. It's a fascinating scene atm.

innrain

I don't think bigger is better will continue going forward. If I'd make a parallel to the semi industry in the 90s there was a race on the number of transistors on a chip and high clock speeds. After 00s they realised thats not all and went for refinement resulting in more efficient use of resources. And finally the winner technology ARM is way less powerful but way more flexible and efficient. Going back to the cars, now that EVs become mainstream there will be a race on their efficiency. 7 kW means 40km/h for me and if I use that 8h every day that's over 2000 km a week. Every % increase in the efficiency would make this figure even bigger.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118076636#Comment_118076636

Yeah I feel like people who think mainstream EVs are going to have 200kWh batteries are dreaming.

Even if all the upcoming battery technologies pay off it'll likely translate into smaller lighter batteries for most cars rather than more capacity 

I think 50-80kWh is going to become the norm for most cars for the next decade. Most people are fine with a car that will go 300-400km between charges. Bigger batteries will be reserved for the luxury segment 

MightyMunster

Hopefully you're right, no need for 90% of people to have a battery bigger than 50-70kwh in Ireland anyway.

Mine is only around 50 and can get anywhere on the island with one stop, which I'd do anyway if driving over 3 hours

Comer1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118078575#Comment_118078575

I have no problem with one or two stops on a journey, but I would have a problem with waiting an hour in a queue for a charger. The public fast charging network is the weak link in all this and EV sales are increasing way faster than the network, so things are only going to get worse.

ELM327

I think there may be a move to 11kW for some folks, particularly rural.

It's the norm in some EU countries already. If I have 2 Evs I'd like the option to charge both, or add 9*11 99kWh overnight in some breakdown. EG 60kWh for a main car and 40kWh for the second.

I accept we're an edge case but there's probably a few rural dwellers like us that do 50k plus in a year.

Actually, hold that thought, if I were installing 11kW I'd just install a single phase 7.4kW and a single phase 3.7kW instead.

slave1

We are two EV household, we just chat as to who needs to use the charger what night, it's never been an issue in 4+ years. We have Zappi and worst case scenario an outside socket to granny charge but the need has never arisen

ELM327

Not sure I'd like that but maybe it's just anxiety on my behalf going from a one to a two EV household. We've had 4 EVs so far but never 2 at the same time. Early next year we'll likely be a two EV household and I was thinking of getting a 7kW home charger and a 3.7kW CEE plug.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118078768#Comment_118078768

Nothing stopping you having two EV's charging at the full 7.4kW each all night long. You just need to have the enhanced electricity supply of 16kVA and then ensure that the charge points are load sensing just in case something else like a kettle comes on for a few mins, but you can easily get your proposed 99kWh on a single phase supply overnight.

If needs be you can even go up another notch to 20kVA.

ELM327

I'd be concerned with 7.4kW + 7.4kW running on a 16kVA setup, there's only a 1kW "buffer" and I like to run everything at night, dryer dishwasher etc.

If we end up getting two EVs I may scope out the cost of a 20kVA upgrade. I know the 13 to 16 is not a substantial amount cost wise but I suppose the 20kVA is more chunky

EDIT: seems to be "€2,717 + MV Network Charges"

https://www.esbnetworks.ie/docs/default-source/publications/esb-networks-dac-statement-of-charges.pdf

silverharp

in the event of a power cut can you run a cable from an EV into your house , through an inverter to keep a few plugs going? our house had a powercut because of a road side fault a few weeks back , I wouldn't mind having an option or 2 if it happens again

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118079373#Comment_118079373

The new ioniq5 supports 16a V2L. In order to use this for the house, legally, you'd need an isolator switch to disconnect the house from the grid and a blue CEE 16a connector for the house.

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118079388#Comment_118079388

I saw some articles alright about by directional tech in the offing, I just want to run a cable through an open window and keep a few gadgets going in the living room, last time my kids were on the verge of moving into the car lol

Comer1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118079419#Comment_118079419

Heating circulating pump, broadband router and a few lamps. It would be a very handy option to have on the BEV alright.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118079362#Comment_118079362

Just use load sensing charge points. Its almost standard on new charge points now.

You have 15-20A to spare when the two cars are charging and you have 9hrs to get your 99kWh. Easily achievable, even if you leave to go to work before night rate ends.... could be done in 7hrs even.

Dishwashers etc are not a big deal. They only heat water for a very short period of time during their 2hr cycle and the charge points can ramp down by 1kW to allow that to happen for the few minutes it takes them to heat the water. The rest of the wash cycle is only a few hundred watts. Not a problem.

Basically, you dont need more than 16kVA to get 99kWh's into your cars overnight.

cannco253

https://www.motor1.com/news/543339/2022-land-rover-range-rover/

In Europe, The PHEV variants combine the 3.0-liter inline-six engine and a 38.2-kilowatt-hour lithium-ion battery (31.8 kWh usable). The 141-hp (105-kW) electric motor integrates into the transmission. The P510e PHEV gets to 60 mph (96 kph) in 5.3 seconds or 62 mph (100 kph) in 5.6 seconds. Land Rover estimates a WLTP range on electric power of 62 miles (100 kilometers) and a real-world range of 50 miles (80 kilometers).

That's some battery for a PHEV, is there any other PHEV with a larger battery than this?

ELM327

That's insane. More usable energy than my ioniq28. And it takes CCS.

cannco253

https://www.schmidtmatthias.de/post/exclusive-jaguar-land-rover-intend-to-join-tesla-s-eu-co2-pool-for-2021

And then this is announced