Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

OK. What was his ambassador to the UK talking about when he said the same thing? Presuming the ambassador lives here and knows what it is.

The ambassador said it first, then they asked Trump and he agreed the NHS was on the table. So let's go with the ambassador

Here is what he said:

Asked if the NHS was likely to form part of trade negotiations, Johnson told the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show: “I think the entire economy, in a trade deal, all things that are traded would be on the table.” Asked if that specifically meant healthcare, he said: “I would think so.”

All things that are traded, including healthcare. As I already pointed out, US business already sells billions to the NHS so it makes sense that that business would be discussed. US companies also own dozens of private hospitals, clinics and healthcare service companies in the uk.

It is an enormous leap, to go from that to the government turning the NHS private and selling it off to the US.

From that statement (from the guardian by the way) it looks like he specifically avoided saying the NHS even when pushed on the subject.

declanflynn

Aegir wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

OK. What was his ambassador to the UK talking about when he said the same thing? Presuming the ambassador lives here and knows what it is.

The ambassador said it first, then they asked Trump and he agreed the NHS was on the table. So let's go with the ambassador

Here is what he said:

Asked if the NHS was likely to form part of trade negotiations, Johnson told the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show: “I think the entire economy, in a trade deal, all things that are traded would be on the table.” Asked if that specifically meant healthcare, he said: “I would think so.”[\quote]

All things that are traded, including healthcare. As I already pointed out, US business already sells billions to the NHS so it makes sense that that business would be discussed. US companies also own dozens of private hospitals, clinics and healthcare service companies in the uk.

It is an enormous leap, to go from that to the government turning the NHS private and selling it off to the US.

From that statement (from the guardian by the way) it looks like he specifically avoided saying the NHS even when pushed on the subject.

So the US has already started to take over the nhs

Aegir

Aegir wrote: »

Here is what he said:

Asked if the NHS was likely to form part of trade negotiations, Johnson told the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show: “I think the entire economy, in a trade deal, all things that are traded would be on the table.” Asked if that specifically meant healthcare, he said: “I would think so.”

All things that are traded, including healthcare. As I already pointed out, US business already sells billions to the NHS so it makes sense that that business would be discussed. US companies also own dozens of private hospitals, clinics and healthcare service companies in the uk.

It is an enormous leap, to go from that to the government turning the NHS private and selling it off to the US.

From that statement (from the guardian by the way) it looks like he specifically avoided saying the NHS even when pushed on the subject.

But as we know in Ireland with the cervical smear scandal where it was privatised out to the lowest-cost for-profit private corporation in America, and innocent women died and are dying as a result, the more these private firms get into a public health service the more their profit rather than patient welfare takes precedence. The Americans are going to call the shots and large sections of the supply chain in the British NHS will be much more privatised by the end of this. You should listen to that Larry Summers analysis of power dynamics in any US-British trade deal. It's eerily perceptive:

Business Insider: Larry Summers on who has all the cards in a post-Brexit US-UK trade deal

Overheal

Finally caught up on this Boris Johnson fella on Last Week Tonight, and after 4 years of nonstop Trump media coverage I just wanted to remark how refreshing Boris’ brand of sociopathy is.

El_Duderino 09

Deleted User wrote: »

But as we know in Ireland with the cervical smear scandal where it was privatised out to the lowest-cost for-profit private corporation in America, and innocent women died and are dying as a result, the more these private firms get into a public health service the more their profit rather than patient welfare takes precedence. The Americans are going to call the shots and large sections of the supply chain in the British NHS will be much more privatised by the end of this. You should listen to that Larry Summers analysis of power dynamics in any US-British trade deal. It's eerily perceptive:

Business Insider: Larry Summers on who has all the cards in a post-Brexit US-UK trade deal

Yeah its not clear what they meant. If the NHS isn't on the table then he could have just said so. It's perfectly possible that the UK will try to protect the NHS and be forced to make additional Concessions elsewhere in the deal. Anyway nothing is known until the Halloween deadline.

VinLieger

Overheal wrote: »

Finally caught up on this Boris Johnson fella on Last Week Tonight, and after 4 years of nonstop Trump media coverage I just wanted to remark how refreshing Boris’ brand of sociopathy is.

See Boris uses his ridiculousness to disarm everyone he interacts to fool them into viewing him how he wants people to, hes an incredible actor and knows exactly what hes doing in that regard, trump in comparison is like a child who just got handed the lead role for his school play and is still learning his lines but the problem is he is still also learning how to read.

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah its not clear what they meant. If the NHS isn't on the table then he could have just said so. It's perfectly possible that the UK will try to protect the NHS and be forced to make additional Concessions elsewhere in the deal. Anyway nothing is known until the Halloween deadline.

you have fallen in to the very trap you said you were not going to fall for.

It is all talk and bluster at the moment, no actual actions or concrete measures.

El_Duderino 09

Aegir wrote: »

you have fallen in to the very trap you said you were not going to fall for.

It is all talk and bluster at the moment, no actual actions or concrete measures.

Yeah I suppose I have. Thats why I keep coming back to the fact that nothing is likely to be known for sure until the deadline.

Skyfloater

In another sign of the UK turning it's back on the rest of Europe, Britain's EDG(Rail delivery Group) said that they no longer be honouring the Interail passes from next year.
We wouldn't want the youth of Britain travelling around the EU and finding out that the warnings of There be Dragons there is cobblers. It's sad really.

Skyfloater

Skyfloater wrote: »

In another sign of the UK turning it's back on the rest of Europe, Britain's EDG(Rail delivery Group) said that they no longer be honouring the Interail passes from next year.
We wouldn't want the youth of Britain travelling around the EU and finding out that the warnings of There be Dragons there is cobblers. It's sad really.

yeah, that's not what actually happened though, is it?

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49263781

Skyfloater

Aegir wrote: »

yeah, that's not what actually happened though, is it?

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49263781

Did you even read the article you quoted???
The RDG put their own Britrail pass first by refusing to sale Interail/Eurail passes.
Only then did Eurail decide to exclude them from next year.
That bullsh1t headline is from the Telegraph, and it's surprising that the BBC went with it.

Skyfloater

Skyfloater wrote: »

Did you even read the article you quoted???
The RDG put their own Britrail pass first by refusing to sale Interail/Eurail passes.
Only then did Eurail decide to exclude them from next year.
That bullsh1t headline is from the Telegraph, and it's surprising that the BBC went with it.

it is a commercial decision between two commercial organisations, how the **** you managed to turn that into some rant about dragons, god only knows, but I think we can just let people read the article themselves and make their own minds up about dragons and whatever **** it was you posted.

https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/travel/interrail-pass-europe-uk-stop-eurostar-brexit-date/

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/travel/british-train-operators-withdraw-from-interrail-programme-1.3980431

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/travel/british-train-operators-withdraw-from-interrail-programme-1.3980431

Cillian Murphy, of all people, wasn't holding back his views on Brexit, in either British or Irish media. Fair play to him for doing it while promoting his forthcoming series on the BBC:

...Murphy moved back to Ireland four years ago after 14 years in London. The move wasn’t fuelled by Brexit, he says, but he is glad to be living in Dublin on a “very liberal island that is an outlier” at the moment. When Brexit does come up, the anger is clear. “The Good Friday agreement was predicated on there not being a border and to think that you can hold Ireland to ransom, you can’t …” Murphy tails off, then starts again. “Listen, if you and I are in a club and there are 28 members of the club and I decided to leave, why would I get preferential treatment? Doesn’t make any sense.” There’s another brief pause. “And if Ireland is a member of that club and me leaving undermines their whole set-up and the peace they have, it doesn’t make any sense, and it’s not equitable or fair and it’s because the whole thing was sold on a bunch of misinformation.”

For Murphy, Brexit was flawed from the outset. “It was a binary choice. There’s no nuance, you can’t put any of that into a referendum,” he says. “You can say, ‘yes, we’ll leave the EU’, but no one knew how.”...

Cillian Murphy: ‘To think you can hold Ireland to ransom. You can’t’

Kidchameleon

There are so many solutions to the border problem, whats his issue exactly? Is our union as strong as everybody says it is if a member cannot leave? What if someone else wants to leave? Would it be a good idea to join if one cannot leave? There was always the possibility of someone leaving, the EU as a whole should have been more prepared. It is not Britians fault.

First Up

Kidchameleon wrote:

There are so many solutions to the border problem, whats his issue exactly?

The UK doesn't like any of the solutions.

Seth Brundle

Kidchameleon wrote: »

There are so many solutions to the border problem, whats his issue exactly? Is our union as strong as everybody says it is if a member cannot leave? What if someone else wants to leave? Would it be a good idea to join if one cannot leave? There was always the possibility of someone leaving, the EU as a whole should have been more prepared. It is not Britians fault.

Care to tell us of some of these many solutions then?

As for leavjng the EU, there is no difficulty. The UK an leave today if they wanted to. The current problems are solely because of the UK and nobody else!

Professor Moriarty

Kidchameleon wrote: »

There are so many solutions to the border problem, whats his issue exactly? Is our union as strong as everybody says it is if a member cannot leave? What if someone else wants to leave? Would it be a good idea to join if one cannot leave? There was always the possibility of someone leaving, the EU as a whole should have been more prepared. It is not Britians fault.

Are you off your face on something? It's not Britain's fault? Well, you're right technically. It's the Little Englanders' fault.

Voltex

First Up wrote: »

The UK doesn't like any of the solutions.

Membership of the EU is the result of numerous iterations of the original ECSC..its what we all, at some point joined up to. The UK has spent the last 40 years integrating and evolving along with the EU's changes...so it was always going to be a massive undertaking to leave.

I'd agree with a previous poster who suggested the simple binary choice that was offered in the referendum was completely flawed. It lead us to where we are now...and the only person to blame here is DC. UK Euroscepticism, which up until 2016 had been confined exclusively to the Tory party for the last 25 years, has now been blown up onto a national level in the UK.

Have a feeling we have a bit to go yet before any clear resolution to Brexit shows up.
The only thing I can see at the moment is a prediction from the eminent Dr Gunther Gruhn.

FrancieBrady

https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1159218950376435712

Looking at the UK side here, and what must be a teenager on the right of the second pic...the UK will be lucky to hold on to Buck Palace never mind the NHS.

Seth Brundle

FrancieBrady wrote: »

https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1159218950376435712

Looking at the UK side here, and what must be a teenager on the right of the second pic...

Which one? The blonde with the white top or the young fella in his first grown up suit

Kidchameleon

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Care to tell us of some of these many solutions then?

As for leavjng the EU, there is no difficulty. The UK an leave today if they wanted to. The current problems are solely because of the UK and nobody else!

Dont forget about the ****ty deal that the EU handed down to the weakling previous PM.

KildareP

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Dont forget about the ****ty deal that the EU handed down to the weakling previous PM.

What sort of deal should they have given?

FrancieBrady

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Dont forget about the ****ty deal that the EU handed down to the weakling previous PM.

The 'one' they negotiated with the previous PM and her team, that she accepted, you mean?

El_Duderino 09

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Dont forget about the ****ty deal that the EU handed down to the weakling previous PM.

Do you think the deal was dependent on the PM?

Kidchameleon

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Do you think the deal was dependent on the PM?

She was responsible for getting the best deal for her people and she was too weak for the big boys. Borris has them worried.

Nate--IRL--

Kidchameleon wrote: »

She was responsible for getting the best deal for her people and she was too weak for the big boys. Borris has them worried.

OK, this guy is quite clearly trolling at this point :pac:

Nate

FrancieBrady

Kidchameleon wrote: »

She was responsible for getting the best deal for her people and she was too weak for the big boys. Borris has them worried.

Boris Johnson voted for the Withdrawal Agreement in the latest vote in parliament.

Still confident?

Kidchameleon

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Boris Johnson voted for the Withdrawal Agreement in the latest vote in parliament.

Still confident?

When did I say I was confident? He is simply better than his predecessor. As I have already stated he would not be my first choice for PM. TMay would be my last choice though - too agreeable

Beasty

Nate--IRL-- wrote: »

OK, this guy is quite clearly trolling at this point :pac:

Nate

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FrancieBrady

Kidchameleon wrote: »

When did I say I was confident? He is simply better than his predecessor. As I have already stated he would not be my first choice for PM. TMay would be my last choice though - too agreeable

How do you know? Has he achieved Brexit yet? Is he any closer than May was?