Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

20Cent

Sweetemotion wrote: »

I haven't seen them use anything else but violence.

Here look, I know it must be hard for some people to condemn the name Anti-Fascist. They might have started out with good intentions but if you're the ones using violence as intimidation to try and silence any one with a different political view. You've become the fascist.

Are they silencing "anyone with a political view"?
How they don't show up at every event then?

The Late Late Show

20Cent wrote: »

Racist, addicted to speed, foulmouthed and sexist.
No wonder bikers like him.

Belongs in Mad Max preferably killed by Max.

20Cent

The Late Late Show wrote: »

Belongs in Mad Max preferably killed by Max.

Draining the swamp alright inviting that lot to the White House. They have even said they wouldn't accept an impeachment decision on Trump.

Seen a video of the assortment of grifters he invited to his social media event. Looks like an episode of Jerry Springer.

Kimsang

20Cent wrote: »

Seen a video of the assortment of grifters he invited to his social media event. .

With all those grifters around, why is it Playboy's Brian Karem causing problems? Oh yeah he 'writes' for CNN aswell.

This clip went viral:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRogWTuS5HI

As usual the legacy media framing things however they wish. That's why they're going down in smoke.

Whereas this clip showing the 20seconds before did not go viral:
https://twitter.com/Uncle_Jimbo/status/1149450425013325825

"This is a group of people eager for demonic possession" - Brian Karem

"You're a journalist, right?!" -Gorka

"Let's go outside so we can have a long talk about this?"-Karem(with a wink)

"We're on the same team. I respect you guys. Just don't attack the character of these guys"- James O Keefe(Project Veritas)

20Cent

Kimsang wrote: »

With all those grifters around, why is it Playboy's Brian Karem causing problems? Oh yeah

Chanting plus yer one in the flag dress.
Sh1tshow.

Kimsang

20Cent wrote: »

Chanting plus yer one in the flag dress.
Sh1tshow.

The real sh1tshow is CNN's ratings fall again, despite being at their lowest in 3 years last month.

20Cent

Kimsang wrote: »

The real sh1tshow is CNN's ratings fall again, despite being at their lowest in 3 years last month.

Fistfight challenges, chanting in the Rose Garden no press conferences, no radio broadcasts.

Didn't happen on Obama's watch.

Kimsang

20Cent wrote: »

Fistfight challenges, chanting in the Rose Garden no press conferences, no radio broadcasts.

Didn't happen on Obama's watch.

You can blame CNN's Brian Karem. Looking to cause trouble as usual.

20Cent

Kimsang wrote: »

You can blame CNN's Brian Karem. Looking to cause trouble as usual.

Never heard of him. How is it his fault trump doesn't have press conferences or do radio briefings?

Kimsang

20Cent wrote: »

Never heard of him. How is it his fault trump doesn't have press conferences or do radio briefings?

He's the guy who is a white house correspondent for playboy, but also writes for CNN. He shouted "This is a group of people eager for demonic possession", and then threatened Gorka because he wasn't allowed a seat. Poor fella. Trump is right to ban trouble makers like this.

Maybe I misunderstand you, are you saying Trump doesn't do press conferences(bold), when in fact he does them all the time..? Surely you meant something different.

20Cent

Kimsang wrote: »

He's the guy who is a white house correspondent for playboy, but also writes for CNN. He shouted "This is a group of people eager for demonic possession", and then threatened Gorka because he wasn't allowed a seat. Poor fella. Trump is right to ban trouble makers like this.

Maybe I misunderstand you, are you saying Trump doesn't do press conferences(bold), when in fact he does them all the time..? Surely you meant something different.

Least press briefings of any presidency.
Least interviews.
By press conferences if you mean him pontificating aand refusing to answer questions he does like them

Brian?

Kimsang wrote: »

He's the guy who is a white house correspondent for playboy, but also writes for CNN. He shouted "This is a group of people eager for demonic possession", and then threatened Gorka because he wasn't allowed a seat. Poor fella. Trump is right to ban trouble makers like this.

Maybe I misunderstand you, are you saying Trump doesn't do press conferences(bold), when in fact he does them all the time..? Surely you meant something different.

If you don’t take questions it’s a speech and not a press conference

Brian?

Sweetemotion wrote: »

I haven't seen them use anything else but violence.

Here look, I know it must be hard for some people to condemn the name Anti-Fascist. They might have started out with good intentions but if you're the ones using violence as intimidation to try and silence any one with a different political view. You've become the fascist.

They’re not trying to silence anyone with a different political view, they’re protesting some people with differ political views. It turns violent and it’s wrong.

I refuse to accept this means they’re fascists though. Otherwise you’re no different than the idiots on the left who call everyone Nazis and fascists.

Yes a I have a big problem with people on the left doing it as well. It lowers political discourse to a shouting contest.

Brian?

Kimsang wrote: »

I'll answer any reasonable person who asks questions, and reasonably listens to answers without replying with one liners like "I'm not reading that" "Not true" "Why you trying" etc.. the usual responses I get from you.

I'll happily show you proof, but you seem to be just attacking me at any opportunity, and then leaving when evidence is provided, onto the next thing. Its an impossible moving of the goalposts everytime.

I am not attacking you. I am attacking the content of your posts. That’s perfectly within the rules.

You’re not showing me proof, you think you are but what you’re doing is copying and pasting other people’s opinions of events. Just because someone YOU respect says something, this isn’t proof. This is just you finding an opinion that leads or confirms your own opinion.

So no, I’m not reading opinion pieces you link. I want to know what you think and debate that. The goalposts stay exactly the same. I just disagree with what constitutes evidence.

Kimsang

Brian? wrote: »

I am not attacking you. I am attacking the content of your posts. That’s perfectly within the rules.

You’re not showing me proof, you think you are but what you’re doing is copying and pasting other people’s opinions of events. Just because someone YOU respect says something, this isn’t proof. This is just you finding an opinion that leads or confirms your own opinion.

So no, I’m not reading opinion pieces you link. I want to know what you think and debate that. The goalposts stay exactly the same. I just disagree with what constitutes evidence.

Fair enough. I actually misinterpreted your last post so my bad there.

But what is proof? Lets say I ask you for proof about evolution, could you provide it to me?

Brian?

Kimsang wrote: »

Fair enough. I actually misinterpreted your last post so my bad there.

But what is proof? Lets say I ask you for proof about evolution, could you provide it to me?

I can, I would point you towards academic research. Research that has been peer reviewed rigorously. That's actual evidence. I am not sure if you think you are setting a trap here, but isn't that real evidence?

I am not even looking for evidence to that extent. But it has to be something better than corroborating opinion.

mynamejeff

20Cent wrote: »

Racist, addicted to speed, foulmouthed and sexist.
No wonder bikers like him.

thats a funny looking hedge fund manager ?

"Conservative bikers lol.
Retired hedgefund managers who go around on a Harley at the weekends."


maybe its a black guy who painted himself white and drew on tattoos .

or a Swedish man with a love of ancient viking runes ?

your a parody of your self from post one and below the standard required for a intelligent debate

now go away

Sean.3516

I’m not a fan of proud boys and alt-right neo-nazis as a general rule.

But if you punch people who happen to disagree with you (no matter how extreme they are) in my opinion you’re an childish intellectual invertebrate and a criminal. Make an argument for god’s sake if you disagree. If u believe neo-nazis are so wrong it ought to be easy for you to destroy them rhetorically.

Assault is still assault. Even neo-nazis have the right to not be assaulted

Sean.3516

Brian? wrote: »

They’re not trying to silence anyone with a different political view, they’re protesting some people with differ political views. It turns violent and it’s wrong.

I refuse to accept this means they’re fascists though. Otherwise you’re no different than the idiots on the left who call everyone Nazis and fascists.

Yes a I have a big problem with people on the left doing it as well. It lowers political discourse to a shouting contest.

In this case I’d use the term authoritarian rather than fascist as it’s inclusive of both the left and the right.

Also the notion that Antifa operates with non-violent intentions is laughable. They glorify the use of violence on a regular basis with the “punch a nazi” and “milshake” memery.

Also, why should the standard to strive for be simply non-violence? Should people not aim for actual civility? As in not screaming at the other side.

I’m happy to apply all of these standards to the right wing aswell, the only reason Antifa deserves special note is the fact that they’ve been given a free ride by the media who portray them as always in the right and fighting the good fight simply because at present the man in the Whitehouse is a divisive figure with an R next to his name.

Brian?

Sean.3516 wrote: »

In this case I’d use the term authoritarian rather than fascist as it’s inclusive of both the left and the right.

So would I. Except some members of Antifa are also members of the anarchist party which is anti authoritarian. I find this contradiction bizarre.

Also the notion that Antifa operates with non-violent intentions is laughable. They glorify the use of violence on a regular basis with the “punch a nazi” and “milshake” Memory

Who’s notion is this? Certainly not mine. Which is why I’ve repeatedly condemned their methods.

Also, why should the standard to strive for be simply non-violence? Should people not aim for actual civility? As in not screaming at the other side.

That would be great. I’m in complete agreement.

I’m happy to apply all of these standards to the right wing aswell, the only reason Antifa deserves special note is the fact that they’ve been given a free ride by the media who portray them as always in the right and fighting the good fight simply because at present the man in the Whitehouse is a divisive figure with an R next to his name.

The media do not give Antifa a free ride and always in the right. Is there any basis in fact for this assertion?

If the media don’t report on their violence, how am I so aware of it. It’s not like I read right wing blogs.

Brian?

As an experiment I googled Antifa and hit the news tab.

Every story was about violence committed by Antifa except on which was about Trump’s comments.

This included so called liberal main stream media outlets like CNN and the New York Times. That’s no free ride.

20Cent

Brian? wrote: »

As an experiment I googled Antifa and hit the news tab.

Every story was about violence committed by Antifa except on which was about Trump’s comments.

This included so called liberal main stream media outlets like CNN and the New York Times. That’s no free ride.

Andy NGO is doing the rounds of all the media. Ever seen someone attacked by the far right get so much attention?

Danzy

20Cent wrote: »

Andy NGO is doing the rounds of all the media. Ever seen someone attacked by the far right get so much attention?

One could describe Antifa as far right, as easily as far left.

Their picking of an old name has no relevance to their belief or actions.

20Cent

Danzy wrote: »

One could describe Antifa as far right, as easily as far left.

Their picking of an old name has no relevance to their belief or actions.

Not really.
No informed person would think so.

Brian?

Danzy wrote: »

One could describe Antifa as far right, as easily as far left.

Their picking of an old name has no relevance to their belief or actions.

One could describe them as anything. Doesn’t make one correct.

They’re an association of communists, anarchists and socialists. There’s enough to criticise about Antifa, why make stuff up?

Sean.3516

They really have no coherent ideology at all.

They’re purely reactionary at the level of the individual activist. Reacting to those they disagree with on the right.

However at the high levels as Andy Ngo was explaining on Joe Rogan, they believe in some wierd combination of anarchism and marxist redistributionism. This is perplexing as anarchism rejects the notion of government while marxism embraces it as a necessity in order to carry out redistributionism.

Brian?

Sean.3516 wrote: »

They really have no coherent ideology at all.

They’re purely reactionary at the level of the individual activist. Reacting to those they disagree with on the right.

They’re more of a coalition than unified movement. They’ve coalesced around opposing the far right.

However at the high levels as Andy Ngo was explaining on Joe Rogan, they believe in some wierd combination of anarchism and marxist redistributionism. This is perplexing as anarchism rejects the notion of government while marxism embraces it as a necessity in order to carry out redistributionism.

Actually it’s more nuanced than that. The end goal for Marxism and anarchism is a stateless society.

If you want to know about Antifa, why don’t you read about them in their own words?

Tasfasdf

Brian? wrote: »

They’re more of a coalition than unified movement. They’ve coalesced around opposing the far right.

What is far right?

Journalists, Trump, anyone thats not democrate? They seem to attack everyone:rolleyes:

20Cent

Tasfasdf wrote: »

What is far right?

Journalists, Trump, anyone thats not democrate? They seem to attack everyone:rolleyes:

Not really it's vastly exaggerated.
Ngo was walking around for hours in the middle of them before he got a box.

rossie1977

Tasfasdf wrote: »

What is far right?

Journalists, Trump, anyone thats not democrate? They seem to attack everyone:rolleyes:

There is no catch all definition but many on the far right have a number of similar characteristics

* strong nationalism and big supporters of military.
* Identification of enemies then using them as a unifying cause,
* obsession with crime and punishment (believe current methods are too weak)
* rampant sexism
* distain for human rights
* distain for intellectuals and the arts
* belief that religion should play a strong role on government