Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

MadYaker

notobtuse wrote: »

I see Trump plans on classifying Antifa as a terrorist organization after their recent involvement in all the violence and destruction. Good optics on Trump's part and will help him in the election but it won’t fly as that designation usually only applies to international groups. But it does send the correct message to the FBI that enough is enough with these domestic terrorists. Attorney General Barr has announced that the FBI and its Joint Terrorism Task Force would go after anyone crossing state lines to organize riots. This is a current power to prosecute the FBI has under their jurisdiction, and they also have RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act) which would be much more devastating to Antifa, as it's a more powerful tool to the FBI than any ‘designation.’ RICO has been used on a regular basis to break up criminal syndicates, which Antifa most definitely qualifies as. And if the DOJ can prove any kind of coordination to commit felonies, then anyone in the organization can be held criminally liable for all of the felonies committed. Hopefully this will be an end to Antifa in America.

This is good because it’s clear that a lot of people came from other states just to cause trouble, especially in Minneapolis. Don’t see how it can put an end to antifa though. It’s a completely decentralised group of loosely associated morons who get involved in riots. It’s impossible to know who’s in it and who isn’t. When the FBI arrest people how can they decide?

As far as I can tell antifa mostly exist on twitter

Mr. Karate

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Not dangerous?



Jesus, You need to open a history book. Millions have died in the name of Marxism.

Next you'll be telling something really stupid like Real Socialism has never been implemented and we'll make it work.

Okay, to use a comparison. Mein Kampf was inherently hateful. Meanwhile the works of Marx was not, it was a philosophy that can be drawn from but ultimately it can't be put into practise.

In the academic world, it also provided a great model to interpret historical and sociological events. Eg considering the classes in the French revolution. Hence the Marxist interpretation generally being viewed as the most relevant. Would you classify these interpretations as dangerous?

Also, any reason for omitting the rest of my post?

James Brown

suicide_circus wrote: »

so classifying them as a terrorist organisation shouldn't worry anyone since they dont exist as an organisation. right?

You didn't understand. Quite the opposite.
Trump/Barr can claim anyone they don't like/disagrees with them is one.

notobtuse wrote: »

I see Trump plans on classifying Antifa as a terrorist organization after their recent involvement in all the violence and destruction. Good optics on Trump's part and will help him in the election but it won’t fly as that designation usually only applies to international groups. But it does send the correct message to the FBI that enough is enough with these domestic terrorists. Attorney General Barr has announced that the FBI and its Joint Terrorism Task Force would go after anyone crossing state lines to organize riots. This is a current power to prosecute the FBI has under their jurisdiction, and they also have RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act) which would be much more devastating to Antifa, as it's a more powerful tool to the FBI than any ‘designation.’ RICO has been used on a regular basis to break up criminal syndicates, which Antifa most definitely qualifies as. And if the DOJ can prove any kind of coordination to commit felonies, then anyone in the organization can be held criminally liable for all of the felonies committed. Hopefully this will be an end to Antifa in America.

Individuals should be judged by their actions, not Trumps idea of anyone he disagrees with being in the same group. Barr will do what Trump wants. That's the big crisis your country is in.

You are deluded on this. How does someone joining up with a protest fall under R.I.C.O.? You are applauding your justice system becoming a pro big government mockery. The opposite of what Trump peddled to get in. If/when the Trump core base realise they've been sold a pup, less freedoms, big brother government, his support will disappear.

Chris_Heilong

MadYaker wrote: »

This is good because it’s clear that a lot of people came from other states just to cause trouble, especially in Minneapolis. Don’t see how it can put an end to antifa though. It’s a completely decentralised group of loosely associated morons who get involved in riots. It’s impossible to know who’s in it and who isn’t. When the FBI arrest people how can they decide?

As far as I can tell antifa mostly exist on twitter

By branding them as terrorists it gives more power with dealing with them and discouraging them from organizing as they do organize. I am anti Fascist but think antifa are dangerous individuals who have never done anything good in their entire existence and all they do is hurt and destroy, they do not realize they are the bad guys.

notobtuse

Bowie wrote: »

You didn't understand. Quite the opposite.
Trump/Barr can claim anyone they don't like/disagrees with them is one.



Individuals should be judged by their actions, not Trumps idea of anyone he disagrees with being in the same group. Barr will do what Trump wants. That's the big crisis your country is in.

You are deluded on this. How does someone joining up with a protest fall under R.I.C.O.? You are applauding your justice system becoming a pro big government mockery. The opposite of what Trump peddled to get in. If/when the Trump core base realise they've been sold a pup, less freedoms, big brother government, his support will disappear.

If there was organization involved in the violence and destruction they then fall under RICO.

And nope... The main job and justification for a government’s existence is to protect its citizens from violence. That's not big government, that's the government doing their most basic job, something the mostly democrat mayors and governors seems to have forgotten.

Biker79

Marxism ( and subsequently communism ) killed approximately 100 million people over the 20th century. They were killed in a terribly cynical fashion. Marxism openly prioritizes its own ideology over the lives of people. You need to read the books on Stalin by Stephen Kotkin which explain in unequivocal terms why marxism is a failed ideology.

suicide_circus

Overheal wrote: »

They aren’t though. Not in the same way The Weathermen were an organization, or Proud Boys, or the Taliban, or the RIRA. There’s no charter or leadership structure of membership cards that I’m aware of. It’s a hashtag that took on life.

i would say the lack of an official structure is the structure. by remaining a loose association of angrymen they hope to avoid the consequences of their undeniably coordinated actions. criminal gangs don't generally have a written charters or memberships card but they still exist.

ohnonotgmail

suicide_circus wrote: »

i would say the lack of an official structure is the structure. by remaining a loose association of angrymen they hope to avoid the consequences of their undeniably coordinated actions. criminal gangs don't generally have a written charters or membership card but they still exist.

criminal gangs have hierarchys. what is the hierarchy of antifa? how is is organised?

suicide_circus

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

criminal gangs have hierarchys. what is the hierarchy of antifa? how is is organised?

its intentionally devoid of a visible traditional hierarchy for the reasons i state above. it still exists however.

MadYaker

When the police arrest at a riot, how do they know if that person is a member or not?

James Brown

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

By branding them as terrorists it gives more power with dealing with them and discouraging them from organizing as they do organize. I am anti Fascist but think antifa are dangerous individuals who have never done anything good in their entire existence and all they do is hurt and destroy, they do not realize they are the bad guys.

FYI: you are anti-fa.

notobtuse wrote: »

If there was organization involved in the violence and destruction they then fall under RICO.

And nope... The main job and justification for a government’s existence is to protect its citizens from violence. That's not big government, that's the government doing their most basic job, something the mostly democrat mayors and governors seems to have forgotten.

It's not an organisation. It's a series of small social network groups and individuals.

Trump will decide, that's authoritarian not democratic.
There you go blaming democrats. So You'd support Trump deciding Democrats are a terrorist organisation? That's only a few steps further along.

James Brown

suicide_circus wrote: »

its intentionally devoid of a visible traditional hierarchy for the reasons i state above. it still exists however.

You can say that of any grouping of like minded people. It's a slippery slope. People protesting for the confederate flag, all one hive mind? People protesting anti gay rights, all one hive mind? People supporting Trump, all one hive mind? People supporting abortion rights, all one hive mind?
People are complex. Disagreeing with them shouldn't give you the right to outlaw them because you use some imagined hierarchy to suit your agenda.

jackboy

MadYaker wrote: »

When the police arrest at a riot, how do they know if that person is a member or not?

Good question. All that will need to be decided. However, it is highly unlikely that an antifa rioter will be treated in a similar way to an isis terrorist.

Maybe if there are organisers then those people will be focused on rather than the rioters.

suicide_circus

Bowie wrote: »

You can say that of any grouping of like minded people. It's a slippery slope. People protesting for the confederate flag, all one hive mind? People protesting anti gay rights, all one hive mind? People supporting Trump, all one hive mind? People supporting abortion rights, all one hive mind?
People are complex. Disagreeing with them shouldn't give you the right to outlaw them because you use some imagined hierarchy to suit your agenda.

i dont necessarily agree with outlawing them, all i'm saying is they exists.

suicide_circus

MadYaker wrote: »

When the police arrest at a riot, how do they know if that person is a member or not?

how is anyone charged with being a member of any illegal organisation? A jury of their peers will decide

ohnonotgmail

suicide_circus wrote: »

how is anyone charged with being a member of any illegal organisation? A jury of their peers will decide

to make a decision one requires information to base that information on. what information can there be that you are a member of an organisation that has no organisation?

Biker79

Sounds a bit like Al Qaeda, in the way its organisation is designed.

Most notably though, it seems to be filled with a lot of people with low intelligence. All adrenaline and no brains.

' Let's behave like fascists in order to protest against (non existent ) fascism, '

James Brown

suicide_circus wrote: »

how is anyone charged with being a member of any illegal organisation? A jury of their peers will decide

Won't happen. If someone commits a crime sure, however if Trump decided anyone who protests is anti-fascist and anti-fa is a terrorist organisation it'll be straight to the cells with maybe a talking to by a judge from behind closed doors.
See we have an AG puppet to consider and a stacked supreme court. The U.S. is in big trouble.

Overheal

suicide_circus wrote: »

how is anyone charged with being a member of any illegal organisation? A jury of their peers will decide

Which jury of peers decided on any of the detainees at gitmo?

notobtuse

Bowie wrote: »

FYI: you are anti-fa.



It's not an organisation. It's a series of small social network groups and individuals.

Trump will decide, that's authoritarian not democratic.
There you go blaming democrats. So You'd support Trump deciding Democrats are a terrorist organisation? That's only a few steps further along.

Democrats aren’t terrorists but they’re mayors and leaders do send a message to the people regarding the mayhem, violence, riots, and property damage. They are allowing a lawless mob to control the urban streets of America and allow the lawless to get away with their crimes based on some perverted First Amendment right interpretation while those in the same areas who seek to live peaceably and expect the government to do their primary job of protecting the citizens can kiss THEIR rights goodbye.

Dyr

Bowie wrote: »

FYI: you are anti-fa.



It's not an organisation. It's a series of small social network groups and individuals.

Trump will decide, that's authoritarian not democratic.
There you go blaming democrats. So You'd support Trump deciding Democrats are a terrorist organisation? That's only a few steps further along.

You mean small social network like the Mafia?

RICO means federal judges and heavy sentences, not some Portland DA who'll toss the case before it gets near court. Federal prison too. Can't see many of those clowns risking that.

notobtuse

Bambi wrote: »

You mean small social network like the Mafia?

RICO means federal judges and heavy sentences, not some Portland DA who'll toss the case before it gets near court. Federal prison too. Can't see many of those clowns risking that.

Sure they'll risk it... overall they're not the sharpest crayons in the box and will expect mommy and daddy to get them out of the mess they committed.

suicide_circus

Overheal wrote: »

Which jury of peers decided on any of the detainees at gitmo?

you think antifa members (who dont exist) will be sent to gitmo?

James Brown

notobtuse wrote: »

Democrats aren’t terrorists but they’re mayors and leaders do send a message to the people regarding the mayhem, violence, riots, and property damage. They are allowing a lawless mob to control the urban streets of America and allow the lawless to get away with their crimes based on some perverted First Amendment right interpretation while those in the same areas who seek to live peaceably and expect the government to do their primary job of protecting the citizens can kiss THEIR rights goodbye.

Specifically calling out Democratic led states and telling them how to govern doesn't concern you at all? Do you believe these Mayors and Governors are fine with the riots? Trump suggests they are at best doing nothing. This is politicising the riots. He's electioneering on a national crisis.



If Trump starts taking away rights he should be arrested himself.

James Brown

suicide_circus wrote: »

you think antifa members (who dont exist) will be sent to gitmo?

Gitmo has detainees who never saw the inside of a court because of terrorism charges. Why would anti-fascist protesters labelled terrorists see a jury of their peers?

Overheal

suicide_circus wrote: »

you think antifa members (who dont exist) will be sent to gitmo?

Hard to say. Labeling them a terrorist organization places them under the purview of the patriot act.

suicide_circus

Bowie wrote: »

Gitmo has detainees who never saw the inside of a court because of terrorism charges. Why would anti-fascist protesters labelled terrorists see a jury of their peers?

honestly? because they're american and white

James Brown

suicide_circus wrote: »

honestly? because they're american and white

I know Trump has compromised the U.S. justice system but I can't see one rule for 'white' terrorists and another for brown/black ones, especially during race riots. Besides it would defeat the purpose.

Overheal

suicide_circus wrote: »

honestly? because they're american and white

And herein is the reason they kneel.

suicide_circus

they also tend to be the f*ck up black sheep of well to do families who will give them a dig out