Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

Great. Can you let us know?

Did you mean that only what YOU consider racist, sexist or bigoted should be forcibly stopped or did you mean that anything that can possibly be considered racist, sexist or bigoted should be forcibly stopped?

well i certainly wont be going by anything YOU consider racist, sexist or bigoted.

WrenBoy

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

well i certainly wont be going by anything YOU consider racist, sexist or bigoted.

Pretty sure thats the entire point. Its subjective.

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

well i certainly wont be going by anything YOU consider racist, sexist or bigoted.

So "by any definition" was incorrect.

Your inability to answer questions and your attempts to deflect from offering your opinion is almost statesmanlike.

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

So "by any definition" was incorrect.

Your inability to answer questions and your attempts to deflect from offering your opinion is almost statesmanlike.

i have no intention of being interrogated by you.

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

i have no intention of being interrogated by you.

It speaks volumes that your interpretation of interrogation is being asked to qualify and clarify your opinion. On a discussion forum no less.

You stated that it should be clear that you oppose racism and bigotry by any definition and then in the next breath explicitly state that you certainly wouldn't go by any of my definitions (despite me repeatedly stating I oppose Naziism and white supremacists).

Funny how you accused me of not being able to stick to a point while you tie yourself in knots trying to infer that I hold racist or bigoted views.

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

It speaks volumes that your interpretation of interrogation is being asked to qualify and clarify your opinion. On a discussion forum no less.

You stated that it should be clear that you oppose racism and bigotry by any definition and then in the next breath explicitly state that you certainly wouldn't go by any of my definitions (despite me repeatedly stating I oppose Naziism and white supremacists).

Funny how you accused me of not being able to stick to a point while you tie yourself in knots trying to infer that I hold racist or bigoted views.

you are looking for an exhaustive list of what i do or dont consider racist or bigoted. nobody has time for that.

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you are looking for an exhaustive list of what i do or dont consider racist or bigoted. nobody has time for that.

And there is the problem.

YOU may consider something racist or bigoted and feel like you are entitled to tell people to **** off home, but yet you can't define your parameters.

This is what antifa do. If antifa were purely anti fascist and targeted people who specifically were trying to enforce fascism on the public I would be a card carrying member. I do not agree that that is what antifa are, what their supporters believe or what they do.

It is a ****ty group of people who believe that they should be allowed police what is and isn't acceptable. I can tolerate an idiot with a swastika who will be widely (and rightly) condemned and shunned before I could tolerate someone telling me how I am allowed and not allowed to speak.

Antifa and their supporters are morons. Swastika flag waving bigots are morons. Anyone not willing to listen to others and unwilling to allow honest opinions are morons.

To clear any confusion, anyone waving a Nazi flag would be someone I would want nothing to do with as I abhor their belief. I agree with you with your distain for the people in the picture. Wholeheartedly.

Danzy

If you see a bonehead Neo Nazi and an Antifa fighting, most people will see it as down to familiar tensions.

They could have easily been in the other's clique bar personal circumstances.


The psychological motivation is the same, the sub culture has more on common with each other than wider society.

Both are to be rejected, they offer the same dead end to society.

Whatever they pretend to be, they are both in crowd cliques, often snobbish, always fighting for the common man but both are confident that they alone must be followed.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

My point has been, and remains to be, antifa and people who support antifa are not good people. Antifa are a group who wish to impose their vaguely defined ideology on everybody.
That is not to say that all people on the left are not good people.

I agree, some people on the right are bigots and Nazis. I disagree with their views and would actively oppose any attempt for them to impose their ideology on everybody. That is not to say that all people on the right are Nazis or bad people.

There is no group called Antifa. It is a political movement seeking to highlight and counteract the resurgence of extreme, violent, dangerous right wing ideology, such as people carrying nazi flags, driving over protestors and mowing down people in mosques in a hail of bullets.

There are militant weirdos who associate with that, and co-opt it for their own ends. That doesn't mean that Antifa as a movement or ideology is trying to shut down everything with which they don't agree, in much the same way that not everyone who opposes free abortions on every street corner is a nazi.

You cannot seem to be able to distinguish the extreme left from Antifa. You have, yet again, tarred everyone on one side with a huge brush and then said that everyone on your side should be treated individually. The fact that you cannot (or perhaps will not) view this as the massive contradiction that any right minded individual can see it for, is staggering,and speaks volumes.

"Absolutely everyone who supports Antifa is a militant SJW who wants to stop anyone that doesn't conform to their idea of normalcy.......oh, that guy marching beside me with the combat boots and the swastika flag?.....yeah, he doesn't represent my views"

Danzy

Danzy wrote: »

If you see a bonehead Neo Nazi and an Antifa fighting, most people will see it as down to familiar tensions.

They could have easily been in the other's clique bar personal circumstances.


The psychological motivation is the same, the sub culture has more on common with each other than wider society.

No, again.

Antifa and nazis are not counter points to each other. It has been portrayed as such by the Conservative right wing cheerleaders in the USA, but that is not a true representation of the facts. There are left wing extremists who are similar in their "my way or the highway" ideology, but they do not represent the collective as a whole

Sweetemotion

Deleted User wrote: »

"Absolutely everyone who supports Antifa is a militant SJW who wants to stop anyone that doesn't conform to their idea of normalcy.......oh, that guy marching beside me with the combat boots and the swastika flag?.....yeah, he doesn't represent my views"

the dunne has denounced that guy walking in combat boots, while you support that guy in combat boots.

Oh I do....do I?

Please enlighten us as to how you came to that conclusion.

PBIreland

Im sorry. But can we all take a few minutes to read back to cartmans absolute filleting of 20 pence.

My god it was tastey.

I do the ok symbol purely as a wind up at this stage. If and signals hurt your feelings thats on you.

Sweetemotion

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh I do....do I?

Please enlighten us as to how you came to that conclusion.

Denounce antifa.

Sweetemotion

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Denounce antifa.

That guy in the combat boots with the skinhead and the gigantic swastika flag is is Antifa?

Sweetemotion

Deleted User wrote: »

That guy in the combat boots with the skinhead and the gigantic swastika flag is is Antifa?

Now you're just being silly because you realise your own hypocrisy.

I'm actually lost here, I've no idea what sh1te you're on about now. You said that I support the guy in the combat boots. I asked you to explain how and when I support him. You've yet to do so. Have you difficulties in reading comprehension?

Sweetemotion

This kid was lucky.

Sweetemotion

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm actually lost here, I've no idea what sh1te you're on about now. You said that I support the guy in the combat boots. I asked you to explain how and when I support him. You've yet to do so. Have you difficulties in reading comprehension?

I think it's you with the difficulties in comprehension.





The duune has denounced the people with combat boots can you denounce these guys in combat boots.

Sweetemotion

Sweetemotion wrote: »

the dunne has denounced that guy walking in combat boots, while you support that guy in combat boots.

This is what you said first, which is different from your last post......"that guy in combats boots" versus "these guys in a completely different picture wearing combat boots". How in the name of Christ are you under the impression that I support a random group of people that I've never seen, especially when you are referring to a picture that I posted myself?

I denounce anyone who uses violence as a means of getting their point across. There is no excusing wearing riot gear to a peaceful protest (or counter protest). You can make your point without physically harming any individual.

But again, seeing as you obviously have difficulty with the English language......for the fcuking fifth time........ those dickheads in combat gear are not representative of the anti fascist movement or ideology, in my experience. Treating everyone on the left as if they are the same as those guys is exactly the same as me saying that you and others on this thread are Nazis. How many times do you want me to say it?

Sweetemotion

Sweetemotion wrote: »

This kid was lucky.

Luckier than Heather Heyer, that's for damn sure.

Sweetemotion

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This is what you said first, which is different from your last post......"that guy in combats boots" versus "these guys in a completely different picture wearing combat boots". How in the name of Christ are you under the impression that I support a random group of people that I've never seen, especially when you are referring to a picture that I posted myself?

I denounce anyone who uses violence as a means of getting their point across. There is no excusing wearing riot gear to a peaceful protest (or counter protest). You can make your point without physically harming any individual.

But again, seeing as you obviously have difficulty with the English language......for the fcuking fifth time........ those dickheads in combat gear are not representative of the anti fascist movement or ideology, in my experience. Treating everyone on the left as if they are the same as those guys is exactly the same as me saying that you and others on this thread are Nazis. How many times do you want me to say it?

Calm down.

Sweetemotion

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Calm down.

Learn to read.

2u2me

jackboy wrote: »

Antifa have nothing to do with anti fascism, that is their name only. They are mostly made up of self hating wasters that just want an excuse to abuse strangers in public.

Not just strangers in public amy longer!

Austin Goodrich caused a stir in the media when he claimed his property manager had illegally tracked his stimulus check. He decided to sue his property manager and actually had many people on his side until it was revealed that his property manager was also his own grandmother. Following this revelation he deleted his twitter account.


Here he was trying to shut down a talk about freedom of speech a few months back.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Learn to read.

On further reflection, I apologise for this comment. Its unnecessary and inflammatory, and I withdraw it.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

This is what you said first, which is different from your last post......"that guy in combats boots" versus "these guys in a completely different picture wearing combat boots". How in the name of Christ are you under the impression that I support a random group of people that I've never seen, especially when you are referring to a picture that I posted myself?

I denounce anyone who uses violence as a means of getting their point across. There is no excusing wearing riot gear to a peaceful protest (or counter protest). You can make your point without physically harming any individual.

But again, seeing as you obviously have difficulty with the English language......for the fcuking fifth time........ those dickheads in combat gear are not representative of the anti fascist movement or ideology, in my experience. Treating everyone on the left as if they are the same as those guys is exactly the same as me saying that you and others on this thread are Nazis. How many times do you want me to say it?

What has been said is that i, with my right leaning beliefs denounce the far right idiots who would wave swastikas.

It has been put to you to declare that you denounce antifa and their supporters who wish to suppress speech they find offensive.

Can you do so?

Danzy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No, again.

Antifa and nazis are not counter points to each other. It has been portrayed as such by the Conservative right wing cheerleaders in the USA, but that is not a true representation of the facts. There are left wing extremists who are similar in their "my way or the highway" ideology, but they do not represent the collective as a whole

It's less they are counter points, more that they are the same but expressing differently.

CtevenSrowder

Deleted User wrote: »

It speaks volumes that your interpretation of interrogation is being asked to qualify and clarify your opinion. On a discussion forum no less.

You stated that it should be clear that you oppose racism and bigotry by any definition and then in the next breath explicitly state that you certainly wouldn't go by any of my definitions (despite me repeatedly stating I oppose Naziism and white supremacists).

Funny how you accused me of not being able to stick to a point while you tie yourself in knots trying to infer that I hold racist or bigoted views.

Authoritarians never like to be questioned.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What has been said is that i, with my right leaning beliefs denounce the far right idiots who would wave swastikas.

It has been put to you to declare that you denounce antifa and their supporters who wish to suppress speech they find offensive.

Can you do so?

Easily. I detest anyone who decides that a view which does not match their own should be suppressed. I refute that this is representative of the Antifa movement on the whole, however, and is a vocal minority. Saying 'everyone who supports antifa is against free speech' is as lazy as saying all Trump supporters are racists.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Easily. I detest anyone who decides that a view which does not match their own should be suppressed. I refute that this is representative of the Antifa movement on the whole, however, and is a vocal minority. Saying 'everyone who supports antifa is against free speech' is as lazy as saying all Trump supporters are racists.

Well then Shifty, it seems we have more in common than we have in opposition.

I do disagree with you regarding antifa though. It's an insidious group that attempts to suppress speech not aligned with theirs by labelling any counter opinions as racist or hate speech. We had a couple of posters here using similar tactics only a page or two back.

But I mostly agree with you so that's a good thing.