Non national homeless

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/we-have-done-nothing-wrong-a-day-in-the-life-of-a-homeless-family-38260238.html

This mother at least trying to work and make an effort. But this story shows the reality behind the homeless figures. 56 percent are non national. This woman and the oldest 2 kids are Moldovan. How are they even here. That's not an EU country. So we have to house educate and medically care for this family of 4 where daddy is no longer on the scene. 2 eldest kids also awaiting hip replacements.

I wonder do these eastern European countries think we are a bunch of eegits. Move to Ireland and hop on the gravy train.

Mod:

Threadbanned

• Stop moaning ffs

malinheader

Reality is, This country has become eejits when it comes to the gravy train. Were far to soft in fear of being seen as politically incorrect.

LuasSimon

When they hear and see what Irish travellers get away with why shouldn’t others get looked after ?
At least Moldovans like this case or other emigrants to our shores are prepared do a days work !

Doctors room ghost

malinheader wrote: »

Reality is, This country has become eejits when it comes to the gravy train. Were far to soft in fear of being seen as politically incorrect.

There’s plenty of paddys able to work the system too with a council house for him and a council house for her and the kids.
And not a bit of thanks from any of the animals or a bit of gratitude,only a huge sense of self entitlement,a reluctance to work and a feeling of being hard done by.

Mr. teddywinkles

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

There’s plenty of paddys able to work the system too with a council house for him and a council house for her and the kids.
And not a bit of thanks from any of the animals or a bit of gratitude,only a huge sense of self entitlement,a reluctance to work and a feeling of being hard done by.

Yea but their are own to deal with not the rest of the world problems on top of it. Would I get a council house in Moldova?

Mr. teddywinkles

LuasSimon wrote: »

When they hear and see what Irish travellers get away with why shouldn’t others get looked after ?
At least Moldovans like this case or other emigrants to our shores are prepared do a days work !

You know for certain every emigrant works that comes here 100% and yes I work with some hard working ones but to say they all do. Come on

Tokyo

Mod: Moved from AH > CA

suicide_circus

Most Moldovans are entitled to Romanian passports, kind of like Northern Ireland and ourselves. They bad mouth Romania any chance they get but take their passports gladly enough as it gets them EU access

_Kaiser_

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

There’s plenty of paddys able to work the system too with a council house for him and a council house for her and the kids.
And not a bit of thanks from any of the animals or a bit of gratitude,only a huge sense of self entitlement,a reluctance to work and a feeling of being hard done by.

Irrelevant to the OP's point.

You're not wrong, and people like you described need to be effectively sanctioned and identified too, but that doesn't mean that we should have any obligation to people like in the OP's article - especially when we can't even deal with those you called out anyway.

Del.Monte

bookerlover wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/we-have-done-nothing-wrong-a-day-in-the-life-of-a-homeless-family-38260238.html

This mother at least trying to work and make an effort. But this story shows the reality behind the homeless figures. 56 percent are non national. This woman and the oldest 2 kids are Moldovan. How are they even here. That's not an EU country. So we have to house educate and medically care for this family of 4 where daddy is no longer on the scene. 2 eldest kids also awaiting hip replacements.

I wonder do these eastern European countries think we are a bunch of eegits. Move to Ireland and hop on the gravy train.

+100

Everytime I hear about the homeless figures I think of the piece by Paddy O'Gorman, or it could have been his doppelganger on Newstalk, where the plight of two homeless Eastern Europeans living in a tent on a patch of waste ground in Dublin was mentioned as an aside.

The situation is never going to get any better as long as free movement of people around Europe is allowed. This country is like a boat with a hole in it being baled out with a leaky bucket. It could be a mathematical quiz question - if a rowing boat is sinking and the crew bail out a gallon of water per minute but two gallons of water flow through the hole in the bottom of the boat, how long before the boat sinks? However this question cannot be asked because it's racist and doesn't fit with the PC agenda which will sink the 'Europe Project' eventually.

_Kaiser_

suicide_circus wrote: »

Most Moldovans are entitled to Romanian passports, kind of like Northern Ireland and ourselves. They bad mouth Romania any chance they get but take their passports gladly enough as it gets them EU access

I'm off on a tangent here, but sure...

The EU will collapse yet imo and the free travel and especially the loose external borders will be a key factor. There's just too many nations and rivalries, with differing social norms and expectations, and hugely varying economic performance/self-sufficiency for it to work as a political entity in the long term.

It worked in the US (well, sorta!) because everyone considers their American identity as something important and valuable.. Not so in Europe where people will gladly take advantage of the travel and employment opportunities, stuff like trade and online shopping, and so on - but in the end consider themselves no more "European" than an American would.

There's no European identity and no consensus among the people (regardless of what the politicians may want) about what Europe is or should be. National interests will always come first. In Europe, that means the dominance of 2 really, and that doesn't sit well with most of the other members either.

I can see it breaking down with the next major crisis. We're very quick to criticise Brexit and the decisions there, but I think the EU was on the verge a few times over the last decade (things like the enforced and aggressive austerity policies on Greece and even ourselves, or the "come one, come all" immigration policy badly disguised as humanitarian aid) and it wouldn't take much more to push it over.

Donald Trump

Del.Monte wrote: »

+100

Everytime I hear about the homeless figures I think of the piece by Paddy O'Gorman, or it could have been his doppelganger on Newstalk, where the plight of two homeless Eastern Europeans living in a tent on a patch of waste ground in Dublin was mentioned as an aside.

The situation is never going to get any better as long as free movement of people around Europe is allowed. This country is like a boat with a hole in it being baled out with a leaky bucket. It could be a mathematical quiz question - if a rowing boat is sinking and the crew bail out a gallon of water per minute but two gallons of water flow through the hole in the bottom of the boat, how long before the boat sinks? However this question cannot be asked because it's racist and doesn't fit with the PC agenda which will sink the 'Europe Project' eventually.

What are you on about? "Free movement" as enshrined in EU law does not correspond to "access to benefits".



It sounds like you have been following too many Brexiteers from across the water

Galwayguy35

We are a welfare state so it's it's going to draw them to our country like a bear to honey.

And it will get worse as long as Governments here increase the welfare spend every year.

We only have to look across the water to see how it will all end up and it's not a pretty sight.

Graces7

Donald Trump wrote: »

What are you on about? "Free movement" as enshrined in EU law does not correspond to "access to benefits".

Could you explain that please as it does.

Donald Trump

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

We are a welfare state so it's it's going to draw them to our country like a bear to honey.

And it will get worse as long as Governments here increase the welfare spend every year.

We only have to look across the water to see how it will all end up and it's not a pretty sight.

That's nothing to do with the EU though. EU rules only allow them to come. If it really becomes an issue, then the government here can decide not to hand out benefits to people who just arrive


https://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/41/free-movement-of-workers

Since the introduction of EU citizenship, the CoJ has extended access to social benefits for EU citizens residing in another Member State (Cases C-184/99 Grzelczyk, C-224/98 D’Hoop). The status of first-time job seekers is currently the subject of intense discussion, as they do not have a worker status to retain. In Cases C-138/02 Collins and C-22/08 Vatsouras, the CoJ found that such EU citizens had a right of equal access to a financial benefit intended to facilitate access to the labour market for job seekers; such a benefit consequently cannot be considered to be ‘social assistance’, to which Directive 2004/38/EC excludes access. However, Member States may require a real link between the job seeker and the labour market of the Member State in question. The CoJ further clarified the situation of previously employed workers in its Alimanovic judgment (C-67/14). The individuals concerned had worked, and had consequently retained their worker status for a further six months after becoming unemployed (Article 7(3)(c) of the directive). However, the CoJ held that following the expiry of this period EU citizens can only claim equal treatment with nationals, and thus access to social assistance, if their residence in the Member State concerned complies with the conditions of the directive. Although Article 14(4)(b) of the directive prohibits the expulsion of unemployed EU citizens as long as they continue to seek employment, Article 24(2) expressly allows a Member State to refuse to grant social assistance to EU citizens whose right of residence is based solely on this non-expulsion provision. The CoJ further held that no individual assessment is necessary when it comes to access to social assistance.

So if you just arrive off the boat, EU doesn't force the Irish government to give you anything. If you work and then get laid off, then for 6 months you would be entitled to benefits. I think it is right and fair to be allowed that if you have been working here.



Give out about it if you want, but direct it at the relevant entity. It's not the EU's fault. It's like the Brexit people on the street you'd see interviewed blaming the EU for all the people in the UK from India or elsewhere outside the EU.

Donald Trump

Graces7 wrote: »

Donald Trump wrote: »

What are you on about? "Free movement" as enshrined in EU law does not correspond to "access to benefits".

Could you explain that please as it does.

See previous post. If you have proof otherwise, please let us know. I'd imagine that you hold a commonly held misconception that the EU laws force countries to provide these benefits to anyone just off the boat. That is not the case. Some countries might enforce their rules more strongly than others, but that is not the fault of EU law.


EU provides for
1) free movement of people
2) Equal local access to social benefits for those workers who move to another EU country

A country has to give the same benefits to every worker. That doesn't mean you have to consider a person off the boat as a "worker".

Stop moaning ffs

187,000 Irish people emigrated between 2012-2017. No problems. But yeah let’s end free movement. Immigrants coming here are problems.

That’s some reach.

Fan of Netflix

Has there been any studies done on the likely levels of immigration to Ireland under a no deal Brexit scenario? Are we looking at much of an increase?

Dude89

It's absolute madness an only going to get worse.

Graces7

Donald Trump wrote: »

See previous post. If you have proof otherwise, please let us know. I'd imagine that you hold a commonly held misconception that the EU laws force countries to provide these benefits to anyone just off the boat. That is not the case. Some countries might enforce their rules more strongly than others, but that is not the fault of EU law.


EU provides for
1) free movement of people
2) Equal local access to social benefits for those workers who move to another EU country

A country has to give the same benefits to every worker. That doesn't mean you have to consider a person off the boat as a "worker".

OK; in Ireland you have to establish "permanent residency" to qualify for benefits? I think it is now a year?

Stop moaning ffs

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Has there been any studies done on the likely levels of immigration to Ireland under a no deal Brexit scenario? Are we looking at much of an increase?

I think you’ll see the Belgian model adapted. You have three months to find work and have to be able to fund yourself in that time. If you don’t find work at the end of the three months you have to leave. As far as I know they’re pretty good at turning out those people after three months.

malinheader

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

187,000 Irish people emigrated between 2012-2017. No problems. But yeah let’s end free movement. Immigrants coming here are problems.

That’s some reach.

Don't think to many would emigrate expecting to be housed, clothed and fed.

Stop moaning ffs

malinheader wrote: »

Don't think to many would emigrate expecting to be housed, clothed and fed.

And immigrants coming here expect that?
If you really think so, take out every worker in spars centras and huge amounts of IT industry and you’ll be left with tens of thousands of empty jobs.
Jobs a lot of our Irish won’t do by the way.

Dravokivich

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

And immigrants coming here expect that?
If you really think so, take out every worker in spars centras and huge amounts of IT industry and you’ll be left with tens of thousands of empty jobs.
Jobs a lot of our Irish won’t do by the way.

Some they cant due to language requirements.

biko

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

187,000 Irish people emigrated between 2012-2017. No problems. But yeah let’s end free movement. Immigrants coming here are problems.

That’s some reach.

The emigrants from Ireland went to countries that require visas, like USA, Australia and Canada.
Are you ok with that, or do you insist America and Oz let Irish in without visas?

biko

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Jobs a lot of our Irish won’t do by the way.

Maybe you won't but perhaps others will, you don't know and guessing isn't helping is it.

_Kaiser_

biko wrote: »

The emigrants from Ireland went to countries that require visas, like USA, Australia and Canada.
Are you ok with that, or do you insist America and Oz let Irish in without visas?

And just to expand upon that - any Irish without one should be sent home too.

(the argument you replied to is all to often used in these discussions)

Gatling

It should be a case of if your cannot support yourself or family whenever you decide to come here ,the government should have the right to return to sender rather than being expected to house and permanently support non nationals with no ties to the country

Donald Trump

Gatling wrote: »

It should be a case of if your cannot support yourself or family whenever you decide to come here ,the government should have the right to return to sender rather than being expected to house and permanently support non nationals with no ties to the country

That is the case. See my post above related to European Court of Justice which mentioned 6 months after losing a job



However, if someone from EU is here 10 years and settled and loses their job, then it's only fair that they be treated equally to "natives". Not immediately deported

Stop moaning ffs

Dravokivich wrote: »

Some they cant due to language requirements.

Eh. What?

noodler

bookerlover wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/we-have-done-nothing-wrong-a-day-in-the-life-of-a-homeless-family-38260238.html

This mother at least trying to work and make an effort. But this story shows the reality behind the homeless figures. 56 percent are non national. This woman and the oldest 2 kids are Moldovan. How are they even here. That's not an EU country. So we have to house educate and medically care for this family of 4 where daddy is no longer on the scene. 2 eldest kids also awaiting hip replacements.

I wonder do these eastern European countries think we are a bunch of eegits. Move to Ireland and hop on the gravy train.

Did the article say 56% of homeless were non nationals?(paywall so can't see).

Guy:Incognito

biko wrote: »

. Don't degrade your fellow Irish by calling them lazy.

And dont romanticise them by going on like they're all great. A good chunk couldn't give two fooks about the country, flinging their litter as they go, hanging around in groups as teenagers doing nothing bar causing trouble for others.

Plenty 0f us had part time jobs at 16 and have worked ever since. Plenty dont.........

Bigmac1euro

When I moved to Finland I had 3 months to find work, luckily I got work so there was no problems, but nobody came looking for me and I didn’t let the Finnish government know I had gotten work.
Theres ways around getting work, in Finland they have a really hard time keeping the Russians out, the Finnish much like us have the exact same problem and talk amongst themselves that they are far too soft on “foreigners” and are also seen as a welfare state. It was fairly easy to integrate without doing much.
Straight to the immigration office queued up for 3 hours to tell them I had arrived with my finnish gf at the time and was looking for work they stamped a form and I had 3 months. I brought this form to another office and I was given a temporary social security number, with this number I opened a bank account and then I could apply for jobs. But as I said after I got a job I didn’t actually inform anyone. I just worked away and kept the head down. But I probably should have told them I had gotten work.


Also a guy I knew From Sligo was living in Finland like a waster with his Finnish missus for 2 years jobless but was studying or something. He found it difficult to find work. Never actually met the guy, can’t remember how I connected with him maybe Facebook or something. Not sure if he was getting his dole or getting finnish dole. He wasn’t getting booted out though.

Gatling

Donald Trump wrote: »

However, if someone from EU is here 10 years and settled and loses their job, then it's only fair that they be treated equally to "natives". Not immediately deported

Apologies didn't see the post ,

Totally agree if you have being working and supporting yourself or family long term and lose your job 10 years down the line you should be entitled to government supports ,

But the idea of new arrivals declaring themselves homelessness and unemployed and getting long term supports is rediculous imo ,

banie01

Graces7 wrote: »

Could you explain that please as it does.

It really doesn't, Ireland has a habitual residence condition for access to social welfare benefits.

More information on that here https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/irish_social_welfare_system/social_assistance_payments/residency_requirements_for_social_assistance_in_ireland.html

It's quite surprising to me that often the same people who complain about freeloading immigrants milking out system, are quite often the same people complaining that Irish people returning from abroad can't access benefits for this exact reason.

biko

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

And dont romanticise them by going on like they're all great. A good chunk couldn't give too fooks about the country, flinging their litter as they go, hanging around in groups as teenagers doing nothing bar causing trouble for others.

Plenty 0f us had part time jobs at 16 and have worked ever since. Plenty dont.........

Sure, there may be problematic citizens but as long as they're Irish we will deal with them ourselves.
Its better to motivate people that are already here than to import people that will just add to the general burden of society. Their own society will have to do that.

Donald Trump

Gatling wrote: »

But the idea of new arrivals declaring themselves homelessness and unemployed and getting long term supports is rediculous imo ,

Well you won't find many to disagree with you on that


What can irritate me is that people blame the EU for it. EU doesn't force it. I think that there is a certain level of taking the piss that can be tolerated. That's no harm. But if it annoys a person, the target of their ire should not be Brussels

malinheader

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

And immigrants coming here expect that?
If you really think so, take out every worker in spars centras and huge amounts of IT industry and you’ll be left with tens of thousands of empty jobs.
Jobs a lot of our Irish won’t do by the way.

Well perhaps it's time some of our own lifetime benefits claimants were offered these jobs that you say they won't do. If turned down then stop there benefit's.
I am not picking on migrants only I am highlighting the soft and easy way of life our benefit system has become,

Stop moaning ffs

malinheader wrote: »

Well perhaps it's time some of our own lifetime benefits claimants were offered these jobs that you say they won't do. If turned down then stop there benefit's.
I am not picking on migrants only I am highlighting the soft and easy way of life our benefit system has become,

€205 a week is no easy living. Trust me on that. It’s bately existing.

Dude89

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/immigration-officers-sent-to-homeless-agency-offices-37872639.html

Its only going to get much worse in the future.

Stop moaning ffs

Dude89 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/immigration-officers-sent-to-homeless-agency-offices-37872639.html

This should be repeated forcall tjose complaing about de bloody immigrants

‘The move follows growing concern over non-EU nationals becoming trapped in emergency accommodation, as they are not legally entitled to go on the housing list.’


As they are not legally allowed on the housing list.

Read it an read it again.

Stop moaning ffs

2 posts! Hello:)

Illegal immigrants and asylum seekers aren’t allowed take jobs here.

But you know that I’m sure.

Sonny noggs

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Illegal immigrants

Shouldn’t be here, send them packing!

malinheader

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

€205 a week is no easy living. Trust me on that. It’s bately existing.

Agreed. But it is all some working people are left with and less after there rent, mortgage and maybe travel expenses are deducted from their pay. Not to mention a trip to the doctor with a child and then medication with no medical card.
Self employed is even worse, some weeks you would be glad of 205 euro.

Dude89

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

This should be repeated forcall tjose complaing about de bloody immigrants

‘The move follows growing concern over non-EU nationals becoming trapped in emergency accommodation, as they are not legally entitled to go on the housing list.’


As they are not legally allowed on the housing list.

Read it an read it again.

They're bypassing immigration and presenting as homless read the qoute "Do not have the right to reside in Ireland" you read it again.

Stop moaning ffs

malinheader wrote: »

Agreed. But it is all some working people are left with and less after there rent, mortgage and maybe travel expenses are deducted from their pay. Not to mention a trip to the doctor with a child and then medication with no medical card.
Self employed is even worse, some weeks you would be glad of 205 euro.

I know too well. Just closed my business 5 months ago after 6 years and had to sign on. It’s horrific how self employed are treated by the state but by social welfare especially. but that’s another topic. Fact is 205 isn’t even a living standard once you’ve paid all the things you mentioned.
You can’t pay for the things you mentioned in a lot of cases. Can’t afford to go the doctor or late on the electricity bill and on and on. I don’t even have WiFi or any of that. Can’t scford it.
Then apply for hundreds of jobs trying to explain a 6 year long gap on your cv and a failed business.

Personally right now I’m trapped. And I’ve been luckier still than most. So I completely understand how others get trapped. Especially if they’re born into that generational dole life poorer scenario. I have empathy for it.

Stop moaning ffs

Dude89 wrote: »

They're bypassing immigration and presenting as homless read the qoute "Do not have the right to reside in Ireland" you read it again.

You can’t bypass immigration to get into the country. You can’t bypass the system at all. People have to engage in it in order to get the money/ free houses you seek to think they all have.
So they don’t have feee houses

Blueshoe

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

€205 a week is no easy living. Trust me on that. It’s bately existing.

Getting up at 630 am and going to work everyday , paying a mortgage and everything else is no easy living either.

PS my tax pays for that 205 each week too.

Sonny noggs

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

You can’t bypass immigration to get into the country.

Of course you can. Are you aware how easy it is to go from Northern Ireland to the Republic of Ireland? Are all border crossings manned by immigration control? FFS.

Stop moaning ffs

Blueshoe wrote: »

Getting up at 630 am and going to work everyday , paying a mortgage and everything else is no easy living either.

PS my tax pays for that 205 each week too.

You’re a hero. We need more like you!

Ps can you just PayPal it to me? That be great thanks DM for details

Blueshoe

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

You’re a hero. We need more like you!

Ps can you just PayPal it to me? That be great thanks DM for details

No I'm just a normal tax paying contributor. There are plenty of us but we are being taken for a ride.

Where is your gratitude to the working men and women who pay for everything?