The Dublin skyline is ugly, why are we not building high rise for modern city?

Kermit.de.frog

Isn't Johnny Ronan getting an erection on Tara Street soon?

Badly Drunk Boy

I've nothing against high-rise buildings as a solution for the housing crisis, and as others have said, it would especially suit younger people working in the city, but I don't understand the 'highrise skyline=attractive skyline' standpoint. Does this just come from seeing the New York skyline on Woody Allen films or Seattle's at the start of Frasier? When you're actually at the buildings, it's not necessarily so pretty.

ChikiChiki

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

I've nothing against high-rise buildings as a solution for the housing crisis, and as others have said, it would especially suit younger people working in the city, but I don't understand the 'highrise skyline=attractive skyline' standpoint. Does this just come from seeing the New York skyline on Woody Allen films or Seattle's at the start of Frasier? When you're actually at the buildings, it's not necessarily so pretty.

They would be older high rise. Modern high rise are more multi purpose retail, leisure, commercial and residential. They and can be designed in such a way that there are green areas incorporated and flexible ambient lighting. They dont necessarily have to be dull concrete jungles.

Hopefully Johnny Ronans one is the start of something because it would look way out of place alone.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

ChikiChiki wrote: »

The spire is an absolute monstrosity to be fair. They should get the consaw to that yoke.

There’s probably no tall building or structure you would like if you didn’t like the spire. That’s the problem, liking tall structures in general but not in specific.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

touts wrote: »

Take the double decker tourist hop on hop off bus around Dublin where you can see over walls and into sites. It's an eye opening experience. The city is a kip. There is little worth preserving. However we have a planning system that gives too much influence to those who want to continue to live in the backward filth they have become accustomed to. And it's not just Dublin. The same happens around the country. At the moment there is a proposal to demolish a detilict early rat infested hotel in Clonmel town cenrer and replace it with a modern classy looking hotel. The project is all but dead thanks to the complaints of a few who want to preserve the street scape from their miserable childhoods in the early 20th century. And many of the complaints come from the professional complainers in An Taisce who never set foot in Clonmel never mind have childhood memories of the place.

We need a complete overhaul of planning in this country.

I’ve found Dublin quite pretty on those trips. You can’t really judge a city by people’s backyards.

That Clonmel story is interesting. Clonmel definitely needs some rejuvenation.

SEPT 23 1989

Move Dublin port and build housing

Total waste of space down there

Franz Von Peppercorn II

n97 mini wrote: »

I live in Leixlip. There are plans to add 3000 houses to the town. I spoke to one of the planners and asked what proportion of the working population commute to Dublin. 70% was the answer. I proposed to him therefore that Dublin needs more density as surely a lot of people would prefer to live closer to work, and specifically mentioned high rise. "Nah, everyone wants a 3 bed semi with front and back gardens" was his answer. This guy was a good 15 years younger than me (I'm in my mind 40s).

I replied that there are plenty of young singles that want to live close to work and the action (my 23 year old being one), not miles out in the urban sprawl. "Nah, Irish people don't want to live in apartments" was the reply.

This is the mentality you're dealing with. I don't know where it's coming from.

He’s right though. Have a look at the accommodation and property forum when someone asks whether he should buy an appartment. General consensus is no.

There’s also a perceived problem with quality, noise and management fees.

(I live in an apartment)

amadangomor

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Isn't Johnny Ronan getting an erection on Tara Street soon?

Yes that's after his planning application is approved

amadangomor

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

He’s right though. Have a look at the accommodation and property forum when someone asks whether he should buy an appartment. General consensus is no.

There’s also a perceived problem with quality, noise and management fees.

(I live in an apartment)

All problems that should be addressed with better standards of builds.

Saw myself on sites during the boom, no supervision of tradesmen/labourers and shoddy, rushed work being carried out.

One lad was looking after the soundproofing around the service ducts and would put a really thin layer of soundproofing material in and cement over it. Guarantee all the neighbours can hear each others bowel movements now.

The management fee issue needs to be addressed badly also

snotboogie

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

I've nothing against high-rise buildings as a solution for the housing crisis, and as others have said, it would especially suit younger people working in the city, but I don't understand the 'highrise skyline=attractive skyline' standpoint. Does this just come from seeing the New York skyline on Woody Allen films or Seattle's at the start of Frasier? When you're actually at the buildings, it's not necessarily so pretty.

The New York skyline is unreal in person, same with Hong Kong, both cities are a bit gritty but it’s part of their appeal. Not every high rise skyline goes with overpowing density and grittiness though there are plenty of modern high rise cities which have pristine streetscapes, Singapore makes Dublin look like Lagos and it’s a very high rise city.

Ulysses Gaze

n97 mini wrote: »

I live in Leixlip. There are plans to add 3000 houses to the town. I spoke to one of the planners and asked what proportion of the working population commute to Dublin. 70% was the answer. I proposed to him therefore that Dublin needs more density as surely a lot of people would prefer to live closer to work, and specifically mentioned high rise. "Nah, everyone wants a 3 bed semi with front and back gardens" was his answer. This guy was a good 15 years younger than me (I'm in my mind 40s).

I replied that there are plenty of young singles that want to live close to work and the action (my 23 year old being one), not miles out in the urban sprawl. "Nah, Irish people don't want to live in apartments" was the reply.

This is the mentality you're dealing with. I don't know where it's coming from.

Due to the lack of quality apartment builds in Dublin, could you blame them?

Racked and stacked, nonexistent soundproofing and some without proper fire safety.

TBH...I wouldn't trust any Irish developer or building contractor to build a quality highrise development.

road_high

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

High rise office blocks will not do anything for SF supporters really, they appear to me to be against everything and for nothing. Even high rise apartments, you know, that will ease the homeless issue somewhat. Just like their PBP bedfellows.

If they allow it, their fight is gone.

SF- the party of pointless opposition and welfare junkies. Was thrilled to see them obliterated at council level- hopefully the Dail will follow soon

Atoms for Peace

Some great brutilist architecture in Dublin, the old central bank being the stand out.

Yamanoto

You don't require high-rise construction to deliver quality high-density housing.

The current problem lies in the fact that development guidelines and regulations in Ireland make a very definite distinction between houses and apartments, ignoring the fact that residential dwellers essentially seek the same things - privacy, space, comfort and calm and considered open areas.

This prevents the development of courtyard or terraced housing or other hybrid models, where tightly-grained networks of units densely occupy space in a city.

SEPT 23 1989

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Move Dublin port and build housing

Total waste of space down there

Plenty of space in Longford. It makes far more sense to have it there from a logistics perspective.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Due to the lack of quality apartment builds in Dublin, could you blame them?

Racked and stacked, nonexistent soundproofing and some without proper fire safety.

TBH...I wouldn't trust any Irish developer or building contractor to build a quality highrise development.

Yeh I forgot about the sh1tshow that was the self certification on fire . It’s been kept under the radar but plenty of issues still to come on fire hazards in Dublin.

Dyr

Yamanoto wrote: »

You don't require high-rise construction to deliver quality high-density housing.

The current problem lies in the fact that development guidelines and regulations in Ireland make a very definite distinction between houses and apartments, ignoring the fact that residential dwellers essentially seek the same things - privacy, space, comfort and calm and considered open areas.

This prevents the development of courtyard or terraced housing or other hybrid models, where tightly-grained networks of units densely occupy space in a city.

One of the signs of the common or gardener Irish bore is that their favourite cliché is to bemoan the lack of high rise in Dublin. Apparently, they're under the impression that the city centre is low density

Ubbquittious

Bambi wrote: »

One of the signs of the common or gardener Irish bore is that their favourite cliché is to bemoan the lack of high rise in Dublin. Apparently, they're under the impression that the city centre is low density

Its just people who been to New York or some other place on a shopping weekend saying "why can't we have that at home? surely if the yanks and some other country have it we should too"

Ken.

Mod-Moved to the Dublin City forum. Read the local charter before posting please.

ChikiChiki

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Bambi wrote: »

One of the signs of the common or gardener Irish bore is that their favourite cliché is to bemoan the lack of high rise in Dublin. Apparently, they're under the impression that the city centre is low density

Its just people who been to New York or some other place on a shopping weekend saying "why can't we have that at home? surely if the yanks and some other country have it we should too"

Or the fact we have a massive housing crisis, the city has inadequate overstretched public transport and is sprawling too far out and MNCs are continuing to invest heavily in Ireland.

We need high rise to remain competitive. Places for people to live and work in convenient locations. Dublin is sprawling way too far. That in itself is posing a major problem. It's about doing what is needed and getting with the times.

LiamoSail

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Move Dublin port and build housing

Total waste of space down there

Something like 70% of what comes in through Dublin port is ultimately bound for within the M50 area.

Environmentally, moving Dublin Port would be disasterous and cause huge congestion as the goods have to reach Dublin by other means.

It's a nice idea but totally unrealistic in the absence of an alternative suitable port

LiamoSail

Aegir wrote: »

Plenty of space in Longford. It makes far more sense to have it there from a logistics perspective.

You want to put a shipping port in a landlocked county? A shipping port for ships

md23040

LiamoSail wrote: »

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Environmentally, moving Dublin Port would be disasterous and cause huge congestion as the goods have to reach Dublin by other means.

It's a nice idea but totally unrealistic in the absence of an alternative suitable port

There was talk in 2018 of Treasury Holding developing the deep water port at Bremore near to Balbriggan that has a land bank of 1000 acres. Saying moving Dublin Port is unrealistic is not practical considering it is at capacity and has no further room to expand and would need to reclaim land from the sea that could exacerbate flooding risks really does not make any sense.

London’s main container Port is in Felixstowe and handles 3.8 million TEU and isn’t anywhere near London.

There’s 650 prime real estate acres in the city centre of Dublin and at some stage the council will realize 30 years past the breaking point that something should be done. This whole area is Prime for high rise and wish Ronan all the success dealing with those planning muppets.


https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/moving-dublin-port-to-free-up-650-acres-for-development-1.902559

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LiamoSail

md23040 wrote: »

There was talk in 2018 of Treasury Holding developing the deep water port at Bremore near to Balbriggan that has a land bank of 1000 acres. Saying moving Dublin Port is unrealistic is not practical considering it is at capacity and has no further room to expand and would need to reclaim land from the sea that could exacerbate flooding risks really does not make any sense.

London’s main container Port is in Felixstowe and handles 3.8 million TEU and isn’t anywhere near London.

There’s 650 prime real estate acres in the city centre of Dublin and at some stage the council will realize 30 years past the breaking point that something should be done. This whole area is Prime for high rise and wish Ronan and the success dealing with those planning muppets.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/moving-dublin-port-to-free-up-650-acres-for-development-1.902559%3fmode=amp

Dublin Port could expand by reclaiming land, as they tried a number of years back. Obviously there's huge objection to the land reclamation project.

Regarding Bremore, I think it's a great idea just not a practical one. Even if we overcame the huge infrastructural barriers such as transport links and road capacity, there's the environmental aspect to consider with the significant additional land carriage requirements. Shipping goods from Bremore to Dublin is a lot more miles than shipping from Dublin port to Dublin. That costs money, creates congestion and damages the environment.

The issue in Dublin isn't so much the lack of space, but how we use that space. There's so much wasted space in the city as is, that utilising that space and building high rise would be more economic and environmentally sound solution to the Dublin city capacity issue than moving Dublin Port. Bare in mind too that Dublin Port isn't just sites, yards and warehouses, there's a huge amount infrastructure in the port and at the berths from passenger and oil terminals, to gantry cranes, passenger gangways, ramps, rail links, bulk loading facilities etc. There's a huge cost associated with them.

Until we really are a city in need of more space, the notion of moving Dublin port seems unnecessary and highly impractical

riclad

Young people go to dublin ,cos thats where the jobs are ,
if we want more high buildings the city council and the planning regs would have to be changed .i used to cycle from finglas to blanchardstown once a week,
Theres acres and acres of empty land in that area ,
around the travelor site in finglas and in that area .
1000, s of houses could be built there .
One solution would be maybe some semi state offices could be moved down the country .
Of course theres the nimby problem, people object if there s a large estate planned close to where they live.
We have planning rules and regulations ,
Most buildings are built on private land by private builders ,
The city council does not have total control of how the city looks .

Dyr

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Or the fact we have a massive housing crisis, the city has inadequate overstretched public transport and is sprawling too far out and MNCs are continuing to invest heavily in Ireland.

We need high rise to remain competitive. Places for people to live and work in convenient locations. Dublin is sprawling way too far. That in itself is posing a major problem. It's about doing what is needed and getting with the times.

Stay Competitive, do what's needed, get with the times. All the classic Irish clichés being trotted out like you're managing enda kennys twitter account

Competitive with what? Competitive by bringing even more people into an overcrowded city? Yeah. that sounds like a swiss watch of a plan. overcrowded hospitals, schools and transport.

It may come as a suprise to you but Dublin city centre is already high density.

Here's a better cliché, when you're in a hole you stop digging.

Skatedude

con___manx1 wrote: »

sky scrapers are over rated. when you see them everyday going to work you get sick of the sight of them. I did anyway when I lived in a high rise city. Dublin needs to sort out its public transport before we
start worrying about skyscrapers.

I agree, people and the government all seem to think we work mon to fri in the city center. We simply do not have the public transport infastucture to build up and I'd love to see a few decent sky scrapers in Dublin.
I can't even get to work on the weekends without my car. And before you say it 50km commutes on a bicycle after 12 hours on your feet all day is too much for me.

I have to ask, why do people seem to think that you can work and live in the same area with high rise buildings?

Atlantic Dawn

When will people protest about the levels of motorised pollution allowed in the city? Crazy how much since the 1980's there's been a complete blank shown to actual monitoring of emissions killing people in the city. Back at that same era the illness of the day was acid rain damaging blockwork, what an utter kip we live in now with corrupt fookers governing it.

Skatedude

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

When will people protest about the levels of motorised pollution allowed in the city? Crazy how much since the 1980's there's been a complete blank shown to actual monitoring of emissions killing people in the city. Back at that same era the illness of the day was acid rain damaging blockwork, what an utter kip we live in now with corrupt fookers governing it.

Because we have very little alternatives? public transport is a joke. I used to love cycling to work, for the 4 years out of the 30+ years i've been working close enough to do so, and there has never been public transport available for any of my jobs over the years as all my jobs are shift work.

People will stop using cars when the government provides a suitible alternative.

snotboogie

Bambi wrote: »

Stay Competitive, do what's needed, get with the times. All the classic Irish clichés being trotted out like you're managing enda kennys twitter account

Competitive with what? Competitive by bringing even more people into an overcrowded city? Yeah. that sounds like a swiss watch of a plan. overcrowded hospitals, schools and transport.

It may come as a suprise to you but Dublin city centre is already high density.

Here's a better cliché, when you're in a hole you stop digging.

Competitive with other cities, both in terms of the efficiency of local industry and to attract foreign industry. If we stopped attracting people to the city, employers would look elsewhere and local business wouldn’t be able to get the workers they need. The economies of scale attained through a large city are the cornerstone of the wealth and standards of living we enjoy in this country.