RTE Investigates programme on greyhound racing industry

Igotadose

CiarraiAbu2 wrote: »

An Taisce protect buildings. How have ICC been shown to be a bunch of clowns, just a matter of interest who will vacinate the Hares if not the coursing clubs.

Among other things, (like the illegal events run by ICC leaders shown in the RTE documentary), their failure to maintain the greyhound studbook to track puppies born per year. They might be getting around to that now, finally, after years.

As for vaccinating hares, I suspect veterinarians are a good choice for this and the owners of the properties where hares are present can provide them and approved trappers to humanely trap the hares.
There obviously are hare populations outside areas the ICC knows about.


FWIW, the best way to treat the epidemic isn't necessarily vaccination, I'm not a biologist and not qualified to recommend one way or another. It *sounds* good but maybe there's something else (isolate a population, let the disease run its course, gradually re-introduce?)

jackboy

Igotadose wrote: »

As for vaccinating hares, I suspect veterinarians are a good choice for this and the owners of the properties where hares are present can provide them and approved trappers to humanely trap the hares.

Not workable. It takes a large amount of people a lot of time to trap a significant amount of hares. Coursing clubs are approved trappers of hares.

wardides

jackboy wrote: »

Not workable. It takes a large amount of people a lot of time to trap a significant amount of hares. Coursing clubs are approved trappers of hares.

Very little knowledge of the coursing industry, but I’m sure coursing clubs are not the only approved trappers of hares.

Just got my own knowledge, what is the main driver of Coursing? Is it gambling similar to greyhound racing? Is there a small trade in the hares caught? Or is it just a pure hobby sport?

The Satanist

wardides wrote: »

Just got my own knowledge, what is the main driver of Coursing? Is it gambling similar to greyhound racing? Is there a small trade in the hares caught? Or is it just a pure hobby sport?

Cue "fabric of rooordle Ireland", "only social outlet for people", etc etc etc nonsense

jackboy

wardides wrote: »

Very little knowledge of the coursing industry, but I’m sure coursing clubs are not the only approved trappers of hares.

Just got my own knowledge, what is the main driver of Coursing? Is it gambling similar to greyhound racing? Is there a small trade in the hares caught? Or is it just a pure hobby sport?

Hobby sport mainly. It would be very difficult to make a significant profit from it. Of course there is gambling but much smaller scale than track racing.

Trapping hares is difficult and takes a lot of people a lot of time.

xckjoo

Dept of Agriculture already run a number of successful programs for endangered wild animals in Ireland. Is there a reason something similar can't be done for the hare?

Ruraldweller56

Igotadose wrote: »

Among other things, (like the illegal events run by ICC leaders shown in the RTE documentary), their failure to maintain the greyhound studbook to track puppies born per year. They might be getting around to that now, finally, after years.

As for vaccinating hares, I suspect veterinarians are a good choice for this and the owners of the properties where hares are present can provide them and approved trappers to humanely trap the hares.
There obviously are hare populations outside areas the ICC knows about.


FWIW, the best way to treat the epidemic isn't necessarily vaccination, I'm not a biologist and not qualified to recommend one way or another. It *sounds* good but maybe there's something else (isolate a population, let the disease run its course, gradually re-introduce?)

You sure about that?

jackboy

xckjoo wrote: »

Dept of Agriculture already run a number of successful programs for endangered wild animals in Ireland. Is there a reason something similar can't be done for the hare?

Yes, they don’t have the resources. Nowhere close.

xckjoo

jackboy wrote: »

Yes, they don’t have the resources. Nowhere close.

They already fund similar schemes. Probably in conjunction with Europe. Redirecting the money that currently goes to ICC and you'd probably have more than enough from that alone.

jackboy

xckjoo wrote: »

They already fund similar schemes. Probably in conjunction with Europe. Redirecting the money that currently goes to ICC and you'd probably have more than enough from that alone.

No, there is no similar schemes in Ireland. Unless you are trying to compare hares to birds, or something like that.

xckjoo

jackboy wrote: »

No, there is no similar schemes in Ireland. Unless you are trying to compare hares to birds, or something like that.

Ya. Wildlife to wildlife....

jackboy

xckjoo wrote: »

Ya. Wildlife to wildlife....

Can’t be compared.

The truth is if coursing clubs are not involved in a vaccination program then there will be no vaccination program.

xckjoo

jackboy wrote: »

Can’t be compared.

The truth is if coursing clubs are not involved in a vaccination program then there will be no vaccination program.

Can you elaborate on why there is no comparison between them? Not saying you're wrong but seems illogical to me.
People with experience running coursing clubs would be ideal candidates for a job with such a scheme!
Just without the coursing part after....

jackboy

xckjoo wrote: »

Can you elaborate on why there is no comparison between them? Not saying you're wrong but seems illogical to me.
People with experience running coursing clubs would be ideal candidates for a job with such a scheme!
Just without the coursing part after....

If you consider birds such as eagles there is a tiny population and pretty much every individual bird can be identified. Nesting sites are easy to find a so there is easy access to the young birds. The situation with hares is the opposite to this.

Paying the coursing clubs to do this. Great idea, sign me up. Just hope the public will be satisfied with the vast sums of money that this would cost.

CiarraiAbu2

xckjoo wrote: »

Can you elaborate on why there is no comparison between them? Not saying you're wrong but seems illogical to me.
People with experience running coursing clubs would be ideal candidates for a job with such a scheme!
Just without the coursing part after....

You are talking about the whole country not isolated colonies. There are over half a million hares, not to mind the rabbits.

Graces7

I rented in West Cork and there was a local pack of greyhounds . Lovely animals, well cared for. They were drag hunting in the fields next to the house. No need for hares or live prey of any kind.

xckjoo

jackboy wrote: »

If you consider birds such as eagles there is a tiny population and pretty much every individual bird can be identified. Nesting sites are easy to find a so there is easy access to the young birds. The situation with hares is the opposite to this.

Paying the coursing clubs to do this. Great idea, sign me up. Just hope the public will be satisfied with the vast sums of money that this would cost.

Cheers. Was wondering what I was missing there.
How do other countries look after their rabbits and hares? Coursing clubs aren't common in other countries are they?

jackboy

xckjoo wrote: »

Cheers. Was wondering what I was missing there.
How do other countries look after their rabbits and hares? Coursing clubs aren't common in other countries are they?

I don’t know much about the spread of the disease in other countries. I don’t know much about how they look after the hares either. I assume lots of countries wouldn’t have the tolerance for illegal hunting that we have here.

Doctors room ghost

Graces7 wrote: »

I rented in West Cork and there was a local pack of greyhounds . Lovely animals, well cared for. They were drag hunting in the fields next to the house. No need for hares or live prey of any kind.

Yeah very well in theory but I guarantee that if a wild hare or Benjamin bunny got up running in that field with the drag hunt on, them dogs would be on it like a shot of lightning.
It’s in the breed.
The same with the drag hunts John bull is at across the pond.one sign of old Charles and hounds are away.

Graces7

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

Yeah very well in theory but I guarantee that if a wild hare or Benjamin bunny got up running in that field with the drag hunt on, them dogs would be on it like a shot of lightning.
It’s in the breed.
The same with the drag hunts John bull is at across the pond.one sign of old Charles and hounds are away.

? Not sure of the relevance of your post to the subject of hare coursing?

Graces7

Graces7 wrote: »

I rented in West Cork and there was a local pack of greyhounds . Lovely animals, well cared for. They were drag hunting in the fields next to the house. No need for hares or live prey of any kind.

Were they the property of one owner? Galloping greyhounds behind a drag is a normal way of exercising all greyhounds, track and field.

Doctors room ghost

Graces7 wrote: »

? Not sure of the relevance of your post to the subject of hare coursing?

If you can’t see any relevance between drag hunting sight hounds in a field and what could happen if a hare rose in same field well I’m sorry I can’t help you with that

Antares35

wardides wrote: »

Are you off your head? I actually quite enjoy the company of my greyhound, as do several friends of mine who have recently adopted. Not everyone breeds a dog to make money out of them for christ sake.

I've said my point on the economic issue. It's a necessary evil unfortunately. Feed Companies will absolutely survive. People will find work. Are you seriously telling me that if we ban (or what I think would be far more feasible and realistic but limit it to 1/2 meetings a day for now), that the bar man who works in Shelbourne park would never get another job?

The only people who would directly lose out (on a mass scale), would be trainers & gambling companies. And even then I'm not sure why that's a reason to continue. Job losses are part and parcel of life. Happens every day, for a variety of reasons. They are not nice, but unfortunately at times, a nevvessary evil.

Such will be the impact on jobs that the country will go into recession again :P

I think it is beyond comprehension for many involved with the industry that someone might actually have a companion dog for the love of it, and that a particular breed might appeal to someone not just because it can make money. I love greyhounds, and I know lots of people who do. I loved the sweet, gentle one I rescued too. I think MaryAnne is the only one on this thread I have seen who appears to both work and love her dogs.

Some people can only see things in monetary value unfortunately, and much of the time, this is the root cause of the wrongs done.

xckjoo

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

If you can’t see any relevance between drag hunting sight hounds in a field and what could happen if a hare rose in same field well I’m sorry I can’t help you with that

These kind of posts always read as "I have nothing to say so I'm going to pretend it's obvious and cover it up by being borderline insulting" to me.

Antares35 wrote: »

Such will be the impact on jobs that the country will go into recession again :P

I think it is beyond comprehension for many involved with the industry that someone might actually have a companion dog for the love of it, and that a particular breed might appeal to someone not just because it can make money. I love greyhounds, and I know lots of people who do. I loved the sweet, gentle one I rescued too. I think MaryAnne is the only one on this thread I have seen who appears to both work and love her dogs.

Some people can only see things in monetary value unfortunately, and much of the time, this is the root cause of the wrongs done.

I thought the same about her too, but all her cracks at rescue centres, insistence that greyhounds are only greyhounds if they're registered correctly, insistence that the industry is fine and should be left to self-regulate and belief that the breed only exists because of the IGB/ICC, make me worry. If that's the "progressive" face of the greyhound industry I'm seriously worried. I don't doubt she loves her dogs and treats them well, but the opinions she shares on why they exist worry me. It makes me doubt the industry can reform.

Antares35

xckjoo wrote: »

These kind of posts always read as "I have nothing to say so I'm going to pretend it's obvious and cover it up by being borderline insulting" to me.







I thought the same about her too, but all her cracks at rescue centres, insistence that greyhounds are only greyhounds if they're registered correctly, insistence that the industry is fine and should be left to self-regulate and belief that the breed only exists because of the IGB/ICC, make me worry. If that's the "progressive" face of the greyhound industry I'm seriously worried. I don't doubt she loves her dogs and treats them well, but the opinions she shares on why they exist worry me. It makes me doubt the industry can reform.

I must have missed those. Why would anyone have a crack at rescue centres? They do thankless, valuable work. I agree, if those involved cannot at least see and acknowledge the wrongs done, then reform will be next to impossible unless someone independent takes a hammer and sledge approach.

knipex

Deleted User wrote: »

Hares that are netted for coursing are vaccinated and receive any necessary veterinary care.

Not calling you a liar or anything but what exactly are they vaccinated against and what would the benefit of vaccinating random wild hares ?

It will never achieve anythign close to herd immunity, the immunity is not genetic.

Hares are different to rabbits and not really communal, they don't live in warrens and tend to isolate themselves. Trapping and gathering wild hares only helps to spread infection not prevent it.

knipex

Deleted User wrote: »

Hence my using the word “could”. If this current virus isn’t tackled, then the future of the hare is in serious doubt.

How do you suggest tackling it ??

I'm not sure a vaccine exists for this strain and even if it does vaccination a wild population of hares is never going to work. They breed too fast and their life spans are too short to ever achieve even close to her immunity. and the very act of collecting them to vaccinate will only spread the infection.

The mortality rate for RHD2 (the strain that infects hares) isn't actually that high compared to RHD. my understanding is between 30 and 50% in hares so natural resistance will eventually develop in the rabbit population.


The best and only thing that can be done is to prevent anything that collects hares into groups or that has the potential to be a vector for the transmission of infection from one area to another. Coursing is an obvious vector hence the immediate temp ban. Hunting potentially (although hunters do not collect live hares and release them the main (all be it low) risk is carrying infected carcasses to non infected areas or carrying the virus on their footwear, gloves, clothing etc) so a temp ban on hunting hares is probable. We will probably see isolation protocols in areas where the presence is confirmed (disinfectant baths to wash footwear lyres etc, potentially a cull on foxes in areas with confirmed infection, however effective that would be.

xckjoo

Antares35 wrote: »

I must have missed those. Why would anyone have a crack at rescue centres? They do thankless, valuable work. I agree, if those involved cannot at least see and acknowledge the wrongs done, then reform will be next to impossible unless someone independent takes a hammer and sledge approach.

Ya I would have leant more towards reform than banning the greyhound racing industry, but this thread is making me think it's not possible. There was some decent discussion early on (one former owner had some suggestions that sounded reasonable) but now it's degraded into a "baton down the hatches" and a victimisation mentality.

IGB have been dropping the ball for years and are letting down anyone that cares about greyhound racing AND the greyhounds in it, but the (presumably) owners posting here just keep saying things like: it was an RTE hit piece, everything is fine, it's all historic, rescue centres are money grabbing, there's no doping, people protesting have weird haircuts (and want to kill babies) so are not worth listening too, the economy will collapse without it, it's essential to maintain our eco-system, etc.
Obviously they aren't representative of everyone in the greyhound racing industry and (presumably) aren't IGB/ICC representatives, but if this reflects the narrative from within the industry, I don't see much chance of reform happening. You get the odd acknowledgement that there's some issues, but by-and-large it feels like they think everyone should butt out and let them do whatever they want (with money that could/should be otherwise used for any number of things that don't support animal suffering).

Igotadose

xckjoo wrote: »

with money that could/should be otherwise used for any number of things that don't support animal suffering.

Lest we forget, it also supports gambling. By *no* analysis is this good for people. Good for gambling businesses, sure, but gambling's a dreadful addiction and taxpayer "ring fenced" money in support of it, is pretty bloody awful. Yah yah it's money already laid on wagers - so what? It's still supporting gambling.

If you couldn't gamble on it, the sport would fold up overnight.

The Satanist

Igotadose wrote: »

xckjoo wrote: »

with money that could/should be otherwise used for any number of things that don't support animal suffering.

Lest we forget, it also supports gambling. By *no* analysis is this good for people. Good for gambling businesses, sure, but gambling's a dreadful addiction and taxpayer "ring fenced" money in support of it, is pretty bloody awful. Yah yah it's money already laid on wagers - so what? It's still supporting gambling.

If you couldn't gamble on it, the sport would fold up overnight.

How can anyone honestly have any faith in an organisation that actively encourages children into a place of gambling, drinking, drug abuse and animal abuse?

https://www.igb.ie/go-greyhound-racing/our-stadiums/shelbourne-park-greyhound-stadium/prices-deals/communions-confirmations/

Beyond ridiculous.