If the Green Party got into government are they mad

Macha

maccored wrote: »

the other option is petrol ... my point is public transport is not an option as there isnt any public transport options. as per my first post, my issue with carbon taxes is theres no public transport option to stop me from having to drive, therefore Im going to end up paying more money but still having to pollute the atmosphere. charging me more wont stop me having to drive. providing a public transport option will

I think it's worth clarifying that a carbon tax is not meant primarily to be a punishment. It first and foremost it is about making people cover the costs they put on others by emitting carbon and not paying for it.

By that I mean things like higher insurance premiums, damage from storm surges, adaptation costs, higher food prices etc etc etc.

Of course that inevitably makes high carbon-emitting activities more expensive and less attractive.

I take your point about there being few alternatives beyond moving job or home. And I think system change is so important precisely to make better choices easier and cheaper.

But that shouldn't stop the state from trying to recoup the costs of your activity. And of course the carbon tax can help fund that very system change - although climate action is so cost effective, the state should still find the money to invest regardless of any carbon tax revenues.

GreeBo

Macha wrote: »

the state should still find the money to invest regardless of any carbon tax revenues.

Exactly, ignoring climate change, it still makes sense to improve efficiencies where ever we can.

Shefwedfan

GreeBo wrote: »

We have already had people say "oh but what if I want to do something after work".
People want to live in the middle of nowhere and then are up in arms when they dont have the same facilities as those living in a capital city.

Its ridiculous.

Irish people need to complain, we could have the best public transport system in the world and unless it drives right past someone front door at exactly 8.07 when they want to leave they will not use it....

maccored

blanch152 wrote: »

I have argued for a long time that rural living, unless it is directly associated with the land (farming), or the immediate community (local services), is unsustainable because as in all countries across the world, city living is taking over.

You are eloquently making the case for same. You have to travel 40 miles each way for a commute which is damaging to the environment, jobs for your skills are not available in your locality, and the provision of public transport is uneconomical.

As you say, getting a job near your house is a stupid answer. Unfortunately for you, paying a high price in carbon taxes is the only alternative to moving house closer to where the jobs are.

its not rural living per se though - i live in one small town, work in another small town. theres no transport links - bar the odd private bus.

I still stand by my point - all stick and no carrot isnt going to reduce the amount of people driving. if they dont have an option, then they will still drive and still pollute.

The Specialist

Podge_irl wrote: »

Society has in many ways over the last 60-80 years been built around private motor transport. Living patterns and workplace locations have grown from access to cheap private transport.

Ultimately people are going to suffer with a change in focus, it is unavoidable. The best that can be done is to try and mitigate the worst effects for those who are least capable of facing them. Society, as a whole, will adapt and reap benefits but there will still be large swathes of people who this will negatively affect. However, that is simply not an argument for not doing it as the global consequences of doing nothing are far, far worse.

Yeah because little old Ireland going back to the ****ing horse and cart is going to save the world :rolleyes: . The hysterical reaction to climate this year is beyond ridiculous and only gets more idiotic by the day especially in this country.

Podge_irl

The Specialist wrote: »

Yeah because little old Ireland going back to the ****ing horse and cart is going to save the world :rolleyes: . The hysterical reaction to climate this year is beyond ridiculous and only gets more idiotic by the day especially in this country.

Well the absolutely massive fines coming our way if we do nothing certainly won't help Ireland if you want to look at it on a purely selfish, short-term level.

maccored

https://www.gndforeurope.com/10-pillars-of-the-green-new-deal-for-europe

Point 2 is what i mean

PILLAR 2 PRESSING IDLE RESOURCES INTO PUBLIC SERVICE
The Green New Deal calls on public institutions to drive the economic and ecological transformation. The burden of our transition should not fall on the shoulders of working families.

Shefwedfan

The Specialist wrote: »

Yeah because little old Ireland going back to the ****ing horse and cart is going to save the world :rolleyes: . The hysterical reaction to climate this year is beyond ridiculous and only gets more idiotic by the day especially in this country.

Hysterical is exactly the word


Moving from diesel/petrol to Hybrid/electric is now the same as going back to horse and cart?


Small bit of an over reaction?

_blaaz

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Hysterical is exactly the word


Moving from diesel/petrol to Hybrid/electric is now the same as going back to horse and cart?


Small bit of an over reaction?

Tbf the tech in electric cars isnt really suitable for ireland....if you put on your wipers etc it reduces the trip left on battery



Id imagine hybrid were the way forward surely??

_blaaz

blanch152 wrote: »

I have argued for a long time that rural living, unless it is directly associated with the land (farming), or the immediate community (local services), is unsustainable because as in all countries across the world, city living is taking over.

You are eloquently making the case for same. You have to travel 40 miles each way for a commute which is damaging to the environment, jobs for your skills are not available in your locality, and the provision of public transport is uneconomical.

As you say, getting a job near your house is a stupid answer. Unfortunately for you, paying a high price in carbon taxes is the only alternative to moving house closer to where the jobs are.

Mate dublin cant handle the population is in it....the government cant be aresd facing down nimbys to upgrade the public transport network to anything approaching necesscary standred


Surely the answer is to develop the econmy outside dublin??(but again this seems outside capacity of the government aswel?)....


telling lads to keep moving to dublin etc which are over crowded and congested to a ridcolus state for its size (easikly has worst quality of life for city its size i ever lived in)seems questionable advice??

tayto lover

blanch152 wrote: »

I have argued for a long time that rural living, unless it is directly associated with the land (farming), or the immediate community (local services), is unsustainable because as in all countries across the world, city living is taking over.

You are eloquently making the case for same. You have to travel 40 miles each way for a commute which is damaging to the environment, jobs for your skills are not available in your locality, and the provision of public transport is uneconomical.

As you say, getting a job near your house is a stupid answer. Unfortunately for you, paying a high price in carbon taxes is the only alternative to moving house closer to where the jobs are.

Ah FFS Blanch shure there’s no houses affordable in the city as you well know.
Not everyone likes to live in a city either. I wouldn’t live in Dublin if you tripled my wages.
Would we sell off the rest of the country when it’s not being used. Maybe the Chinese would buy it.

Shefwedfan

_blaaz wrote: »

Tbf the tech in electric cars isnt really suitable for ireland....if you put on your wipers etc it reduces the trip left on battery



Id imagine hybrid were the way forward surely??

The pub talk continues, turning on the wiper will not affect the range

Have you driven an electric car?

Ireland is actually perfect for electric cars because we are one of the smallest countries in Europe. The new cars coming out now will go from Belfast to Cork without the need to charge....that can be with the wipers on :P

_blaaz

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The pub talk continues, turning on the wiper will not affect the range

Have you driven an electric car?

Yes i have.....prob more than most on here (and yes the range deos go down when wipers etc put on,the fact you think it wont is baffling)

Ireland is actually perfect for electric cars because we are one of the smallest countries in Europe. The new cars coming out now will go from Belfast to Cork without the need to charge....that can be with the wipers on :P

I hope so....but the tech will need to vastly improve imo.....its not good enough (its really bad,up til last year or 2..some still used brush driven motors ffs)......no.mind the fact that they are not safe in crashes imo,but that will soon be industry wide problem anyway



The fact is hybrids are the way forward,they offer best of both worlds....motors arent as efficent at high speeds at converting power to torque ???lads driving cork to brlfast at 75kph will die of boredom

Mancomb Seepgood

_blaaz wrote: »

Tbf the tech in electric cars isnt really suitable for ireland....if you put on your wipers etc it reduces the trip left on battery

Four years of driving electric cars in Ireland..this simply isn't true.Given the distances electric cars are now suitable for the majority of motorists in Ireland,certainly in 2019.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Macha wrote: »

I think it's worth clarifying that a carbon tax is not meant primarily to be a punishment. It first and foremost it is about making people cover the costs they put on others by emitting carbon and not paying for it.

By that I mean things like higher insurance premiums, damage from storm surges, adaptation costs, higher food prices etc etc etc.

Of course that inevitably makes high carbon-emitting activities more expensive and less attractive.

I take your point about there being few alternatives beyond moving job or home. And I think system change is so important precisely to make better choices easier and cheaper.

But that shouldn't stop the state from trying to recoup the costs of your activity. And of course the carbon tax can help fund that very system change - although climate action is so cost effective, the state should still find the money to invest regardless of any carbon tax revenues.

It's not like petrol/diesel aren't being highly taxed as it is; https://www.theaa.ie/aa/motoring-advice/petrol-prices.aspx
Any additional increases in fuel prices, affects the prices in shop/supermarkets and what people may demand in wages increases (again affecting the cost to the consumer).
People like to think that it's just the "driver" that's subjected to the increased tax, but just about every item/service you consume has "carbon missions" behind it.

Shefwedfan

_blaaz wrote: »

Yes i have.....prob more than most on here (and yes the range deos go down when wipers etc put on,the fact you think it wont is baffling)



I hope so....but the tech will need to vastly improve imo.....its not good enough (its really bad,up til last year or 2..some still used brush driven motors ffs)......no.mind the fact that they are not safe in crashes imo,but that will soon be industry wide problem anyway



The fact is hybrids are the way forward,they offer best of both worlds....motors arent as efficent at high speeds at converting power to torque ???lads driving cork to brlfast at 75kph will die of boredom

I have an electric car for 3 years now. Are you really trying to tell me that the range will decrease by using the wipers? if that is the case then how much petrol/diesel is used to make the wipers work? At the end of the day electric is just a fuel, same as petrol and diesel.

Why are they not safe in crash? Tesla has the highest safety rating? most of the cars have been proved to be safe. Never seen anything saying they are not safe, maybe I missed it?

Hybrids have a place in market, I don't deny that.

Which lads exactly are driving from Belfast to Cork?

Shefwedfan

Mancomb Seepgood wrote: »

Four years of driving electric cars in Ireland..this simply isn't true.Given the distances electric cars are now suitable for the majority of motorists in Ireland,certainly in 2019.

You must not use the wipers....if you turn on the wipers you are f**ked :P

cutelad

A hard Brexit will put a stop to this Green over reaction. Tax Tax Tax. Oh lets put new buses into Dublin. But for the folks in rural Ireland lets double electricity bills for farmers, punish ordinary folk going to work.
Oh the green hipsters are loving it but lets see when our economy stalls a bit and people feel less money. I for one used recycle, used to try do small changes, so what does councils do, raise prices at dump, you'd need a degree to recycle plastics now. I've just given up.
I know of neibhours that burn there stuff now. The solution is make it cheaper and people will buy in. Make it expensive people will do the opposite

Shefwedfan

cutelad wrote: »

A hard Brexit will put a stop to this Green over reaction. Tax Tax Tax. Oh lets put new buses into Dublin. But for the folks in rural Ireland lets double electricity bills for farmers, punish ordinary folk going to work.
Oh the green hipsters are loving it but lets see when our economy stalls a bit and people feel less money. I for one used recycle, used to try do small changes, so what does councils do, raise prices at dump, you'd need a degree to recycle plastics now. I've just given up.
I know of neibhours that burn there stuff now. The solution is make it cheaper and people will buy in. Make it expensive people will do the opposite

How is recycling difficult?



Most providers have 2 - 3 bins. One for rubbish, one for recycling and one for food waste. My 6 year old knows which bin is which and how to use, I guess you are an adult so how exactly are you confused?


Also, burning rubbish is illegal.....

I live in Navan. Not really by choice though. We have a HUGE housing crisis.

The average couple earning the actual average wage can’t afford to live in Dublin. By actual I mean not the figure quoted in the media that less than half the country actually earns.

I drive to Dublin 6 days a week. It’s not that I don’t care about the environment, but having a job and a roof over my head comes first.

Worrying about the environment is a luxury that most of us can’t afford.

_blaaz

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I have an electric car for 3 years now. Are you really trying to tell me that the range will decrease by using the wipers? if that is the case then how much petrol/diesel is used to make the wipers work? At the end of the day electric is just a fuel, same as petrol and diesel.

It do go down on the electric vehicle in work anyway....its incomprehensible that you think using electirc ancillaries wont drain the battery

Why are they not safe in crash? Tesla has the highest safety rating? most of the cars have been proved to be safe. Never seen anything saying they are not safe, maybe I missed it?

They are made of plastic onto an aluminium frame,with little to no acrual steel in subframe (but tbf most cars are headed this.way anyway)

Hybrids have a place in market, I don't deny that.

Which lads exactly are driving from Belfast to Cork?

Any training course i ever done told that diesel to torque is more efficent at higher speed than via elec motor (toyota group lead the research in this area afaik)

_blaaz

OSI wrote: »

This wins retarded post of the month. By quite some margin. Congrats, some acheivment.

You dont think electric wipers use battery....pray tell how?

GreeBo

_blaaz wrote: »

Tbf the tech in electric cars isnt really suitable for ireland....if you put on your wipers etc it reduces the trip left on battery



Id imagine hybrid were the way forward surely??

Yeah...EVs are only suitable for countries that don't rain...or get dark.

maccored wrote: »

its not rural living per se though - i live in one small town, work in another small town. theres no transport links - bar the odd private bus.

I still stand by my point - all stick and no carrot isnt going to reduce the amount of people driving. if they dont have an option, then they will still drive and still pollute.

So you expect public transport to shuttle you to work between two small towns?
How many people do you think take the same commute?
I feel it would be a small bus tbh

GreeBo

_blaaz wrote: »

You dont think electric wipers use battery....pray tell how?

They use the same battery that your car uses.

_blaaz

GreeBo wrote: »

They use the same battery that your car uses.

Jesus...this like drawing teeth....and what drives the electric car

VinLieger

_blaaz wrote: »

You dont think electric wipers use battery....pray tell how?

What powers the battery to make the wipers work in a petrol or diesel car?

_blaaz

VinLieger wrote: »

What powers the battery to make the wipers work in a petrol or diesel car?

The altenator (which deosnt drain when car running due to altenator able to up its output when theres a draw)



This is like 1st day of fas again :pac:

maccored

GreeBo wrote: »

So you expect public transport to shuttle you to work between two small towns?
How many people do you think take the same commute?
I feel it would be a small bus tbh

i would expect public transport to transport the public - yes. the clue is in those two words - public and transport. You win though. if it stops me having to explain the concept of public transport to you, i'll say anything

Shefwedfan

_blaaz wrote: »

It do go down on the electric vehicle in work anyway....its incomprehensible that you think using electirc ancillaries wont drain the battery

Its incomprehensible that you continue to post about this ridiculous idea


The power used by the wipers is minuscule. Even if I turn on the car and just leave it going with the wipers all day I would lose exactly how much range?


That is what you said, not that they use electricity but that you will actually use range.



Since you went to FAS, please tell me on a 40kWh battery how much range I will lose from turning on the wipers.


I love it when posters are wrong instead of admitting it they just double down on it....

Shefwedfan

VinLieger wrote: »

What powers the battery to make the wipers work in a petrol or diesel car?

By the sounds of it people all around the World are spending million on fuel to power the wipers in cars.

I have an idea to reduce CO2, just take off wipers on cars....if people want them they can pull with a string and that will remove the huge requirement to power the wipers of Ireland.....

The lads in FAS know what is going on...