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Iran Did Do It..............says Trump

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    #842
    The Late Late Show
    Closed Accounts Posts: 840 ✭✭✭The Late Late Show


    Gatling wrote: »
    Not really no ,

    Iran elections are like russian elections only chosen people get to run who favour the supreme leaders agendas ,
    It was claimed he took 23% of the 41 million votes not the majority of Iranians you claimed

    I agree that Iran's system means certain individuals are excluded if they do not believe in Supreme Leader and that certain Iranians do not vote. But Rouhani beat the preferred candidates of the rejected hardliners 2 times. For the MIDDLE EAST, this is more democratic than the rest of the countries.

    America cannot claim to be a democracy. Trump and others got elected via the dodgy electoral college and on April 9th 2018, Trump basically handed the government over to dystopia when he appointed John Bolton. Bolton, an UNELECTED official should not be in government and either should Brian Hook, another UNELECTED official. America is anything but perfect and are in no position to criticise anyone else until they get their very flawed messed up dystopia fixed. A good few people I know have said America is a horrible place now and these people are Americans.


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    #843
    The Late Late Show
    Closed Accounts Posts: 840 ✭✭✭The Late Late Show


    There was a very interesting documentary on Saudi Arabia, Iran and the related events of the Middle East last night (Monday) on RTE at 11.15. Many anti-Iran types speak of the Islamic revolution as if it was only in Iran but it was not. Islamic revolution changed Saudi Arabia in the 1979 period too and I had forgotten all about this General Zia in Pakistan. A very evil and cruel guy who wallowed in sadistic public punishments of his people.

    Needless to say, Saudi and this Zia along with the Americans were 100% responsible for messing up Afghanistan's anti-communist factions and lead to the malign influence of madrassas and Bin Laden which eventually lead to the likes of the Taliban, Al Qaeda and indirectly ISIS. No question here about who the real baddies of the Middle East were: it is clearly the Wahabbis and their Saudi patrons. Iran and Ayatollah Khomeini came across as a more legit revolution that had support of the people of Iran in 1979. Of course, Iran has become less religious and of course, Khamenei lacks the charisma of Khomeini so change may come once more in Iran. It is also obvious that the Shah of Iran was no angel either and that much like the Saudi royals, he ruled his country without considering his people often. It is clear what frightened the Saudi royals about the overthrow of the Shah (the Shah was a friend of the Saudi royals). One of their club was overthrown and they feared they'd be next. Monarchs were threatened and the all powerful Shah replaced within a short few weeks.

    What also one notices about this period is how the Americans often were able to hide their imperialist agenda behind backing 'freedom fighters'. The types the Americans supported along with the Saudis were anything but good people and while happy to demonise Islamic revolution in Iran, it glorified a much more intolerant Islamic revolution in Afghanistan. Mujahedin propaganda was everywhere in the 1980s and even counted Rambo as an ally!

    With today's Bolton regime running a quasi-dictatorship that ignores the people's votes ruling in America since April 9th 2018, the pretences that America is more noble than a blatant reactionary imperialist arrogant superpower are dropped. Bolton's regime is evil and self serving, only caters for the white male Christian population of America and does not care what the world thinks. Bolton's takeover is worrisome and for now, the bad guys have won out in America due to a weak president, a divided system and a greedy big business lobby influence. A dictator like Bolton is the end result of America's messed up 'democracy'.


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    #844
    jackboy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭jackboy


    The Late Late Show wrote: »
    A good few people I know have said America is a horrible place now and these people are Americans.

    Yet a lot of Mexicans risk death to get into America. A lot of Irish are petrified of being deported from the USA back to Ireland.

    Although not perfect it is still one of the best countries in the world to live.

    A lot of people here say that Ireland is horrible, doesn’t mean it is true. I’m sure most Iranians would prefer an American style government to what they have now.


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    #845
    The Late Late Show
    Closed Accounts Posts: 840 ✭✭✭The Late Late Show


    jackboy wrote: »
    Yet a lot of Mexicans risk death to get into America. A lot of Irish are petrified of being deported from the USA back to Ireland.

    Although not perfect it is still one of the best countries in the world to live.

    A lot of people here say that Ireland is horrible, doesn’t mean it is true. I’m sure most Iranians would prefer an American style government to what they have now.

    America remains a good country but there is a movement of vile individuals who entered government on 9th April 2018 doing all they can to wreck America. I believe that in the end, the Bolton regime will not succeed and is good at only one thing: making enemies of everyone. Most Americans will demand and are demanding change, have voted against the Bolton regime in the midterms and other factions in government will sooner or later unite against it. If the Republican party sees its ratings drop to all time lows, they will have to leave the Bolton regime to its own devices and steer back to more moderate territory.

    American democracy has been under threat since April 2018 but let's hope this vile regime comes to a head and America can get a normal government again. Iran was heading towards better territory until Bolton's regime decided to quit the Iran deal. The best thing for the world would be to get rid of the Bolton regime and REVERSE everything done between April 2018 and now.

    No country be it Iran, Ireland, America, or whoever is perfect. But governments everywhere should listen to the people. Bolton's regime 100% IGNORED the midterm and this is worrying. Other administrations got their act together when they did poorly in the midterms and the like.


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    #846
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    The Late Late Show wrote: »
    I agree that Iran's system means certain individuals are excluded if they do not believe in Supreme Leader and that certain Iranians do not vote. But Rouhani beat the preferred candidates of the rejected hardliners 2 times. For the MIDDLE EAST, this is more democratic than the rest of the countries.

    America cannot claim to be a democracy. Trump and others got elected via the dodgy electoral college and on April 9th 2018, Trump basically handed the government over to dystopia when he appointed John Bolton. Bolton, an UNELECTED official should not be in government and either should Brian Hook, another UNELECTED official. America is anything but perfect and are in no position to criticise anyone else until they get their very flawed messed up dystopia fixed. A good few people I know have said America is a horrible place now and these people are Americans.
    Nobody and no nation is perfect, but for a little over 240 years the United States has been a beacon for the world.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #847
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭nthclare


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Nobody and no nation is perfect, but for a little over 240 years the United States has been a beacon for the world.

    Some beacons are used as a warning not to go anywhere near or put yourself in harm's way...

    Such as a lighthouse, warning ships that there's dangerous rocks or banks close by....

    Is that the kind of beacon you're referring to ?


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    #848
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    nthclare wrote: »
    Some beacons are used as a warning not to go anywhere near or put yourself in harm's way...

    Such as a lighthouse, warning ships that there's dangerous rocks or banks close by....

    Is that the kind of beacon you're referring to ?
    It could mean that at times, but more so the beacon metaphor is something that guides or gives hope to others.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #849
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    UAE- Panama registered oil tanker is now missing apparently? It was last located in Iranian waters over the weekend.

    CNN news tweeted this
    https://twitter.com/barbarastarrcnn/status/1150859696036880384

    Still bit of mystery what happened. Doubt there be a UK and US military response over this?

    Khamenei said there will be a response to UK seizure, this is the one to watch.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-iran-khamenei-britain/khamenei-vows-iran-will-respond-to-uk-piracy-over-tanker-seizure-idUSKCN1UB10T


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    #850
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    UAE- Panama registered oil tanker is now missing apparently? It was last located in Iranian waters over the weekend.

    CNN news tweeted this
    https://twitter.com/barbarastarrcnn/status/1150859696036880384

    Still bit of mystery what happened. Doubt there be a UK and US military response over this?

    Khamenei said there will be a response to UK seizure, this is the one to watch.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-iran-khamenei-britain/khamenei-vows-iran-will-respond-to-uk-piracy-over-tanker-seizure-idUSKCN1UB10T


    Apparently the above vessel is in the gulf or Oman
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • Options
    #851
    Gringo180
    Registered Users Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Nobody and no nation is perfect, but for a little over 240 years the United States has been a beacon for the world.

    It doesnt say alot for humanity, when the richest country on the planet cant even afford there citizens universal healthcare, some beacon to the world alright!


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    #852
    BloodBath
    Registered Users Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭BloodBath


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Nobody and no nation is perfect, but for a little over 240 years the United States has been a beacon for the world.

    You have to be trolling at this stage.


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    #853
    archer22
    Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭archer22


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Nobody and no nation is perfect, but for a little over 240 years the United States has been a beacon for the world.

    A "beacon" for whom though?...certainly not for the native Americans who were the subjects of the worst genocide in world history.

    Or the millions of Africans dragged across the Atlantic to the slave markets of America.


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    #854
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Gringo180 wrote: »
    It doesnt say alot for humanity, when the richest country on the planet cant even afford there citizens universal healthcare, some beacon to the world alright!
    archer22 wrote: »
    A "beacon" for whom though?...certainly not for the native Americans who were the subjects of the worst genocide in world history.

    Or the millions of Africans dragged across the Atlantic to the slave markets of America.



    Unfortunately not all true sure it's not but hey let's just make crap up
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #855
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,987 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    archer22 wrote: »
    A "beacon" for whom though?...certainly not for the native Americans who were the subjects of the worst genocide in world history.

    Or the millions of Africans dragged across the Atlantic to the slave markets of America.


    Or the hundreds of thousands of people killed in their South East Asian excursion, the Iraq war and sponsorship of criminal regimes in latin america.


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    #856
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    So Iran admitted they have the missing tanker MH RIAH after suffering some kind of technical difficulty it was towed to an Iranian facility ,
    The odd part is the owners have had zero contact with the ships crew and it's maritime transponder was deliberately switched off ,

    Which suggests that the ship was actually sized by Iranian forces who shut down/ disabled the tracking transponder.
    Add the fact that zero communications with the crew or vessel before , during and after suffering technical issues near Iran


    https://news.yahoo.com/latest-iran-confirms-arrested-french-083917423.html
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #857
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Or the hundreds of thousands of people killed in their South East Asian excursion,

    Were they the only ones involved in the south east Asia ,
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #858
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,987 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Gatling wrote: »
    Were they the only ones involved in the south east Asia ,


    . The point, however, is that the USA has been less than a "beacon" on a number of occassions through out its recent history. Nobody is holding up China, Russia etc as such.


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    #859
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    archer22 wrote: »
    A "beacon" for whom though?...certainly not for the native Americans who were the subjects of the worst genocide in world history.

    Or the millions of Africans dragged across the Atlantic to the slave markets of America.
    Again... Nobody and no nation is perfect. But if there was no US, what would the world look like? I think life on this planet earth would likely be pretty grim at this point. No country has given so much to so many so often, while asking for so little in return, for so little gratitude than the US. The fact is the US is the envy of the world… and rightfully so.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #860
    Fiery mutant
    Registered Users Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Fiery mutant


    Odhinn wrote: »
    . Nobody is holding up China, Russia etc as such.

    That's because there is no possible way to hold either China or Russia up as beacons of anything, bar being world leaders in human rights violations.

    We should defend our way of life to an extent that any attempt on it is crushed, so that any adversary will never make such an attempt in the future.



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    #861
    Hobosan
    Registered Users Posts: 582 ✭✭✭Hobosan


    archer22 wrote: »
    A "beacon" for whom though?...certainly not for the native Americans who were the subjects of the worst genocide in world history.

    Or the millions of Africans dragged across the Atlantic to the slave markets of America.

    Native American genocide... The modern equivalent to 'Blood Libel'.


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    #862
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Hobosan wrote: »
    Native American genocide... The modern equivalent to 'Blood Libel'.
    You do realize that was all started and became set standards before independence... when Europe controlled what is now the US? It was America who set out to right the wrongs, although it did take far too long... even took a civil war costing 2 percent of the population... and some bumps in the road to justice were experienced.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #863
    Hobosan
    Registered Users Posts: 582 ✭✭✭Hobosan


    notobtuse wrote: »
    You do realize that was all started and became set standards before independence... when Europe controlled what is now the US? It was America who set out to right the wrongs, although it did take far too long... even took a civil war costing 2 percent of the population... and some bumps in the road to justice were experienced.

    Well yes, but I'm going further than that by comparing it to Blood Libel, which was a myth to smear Jews, which proclaimed they abducted children for satanic human sacrifice rituals.

    The population of Native North Americans is estimated to be at most 3 million before Europeans arrived. This dropped to around 500,000 around 4 centuries later when census records began.

    There are many factors which led to this decline, including some massacres by certain factions which happens when people fight eachother. It was not a systematic genocide, never mind "the worst genocide in the history of the world".

    The 3 million figure is arrived at by calculating population densities and carrying capacity of all other hunter gatherer populations around the world and mapping it onto North America.

    Before this, idiots would pull figures like 20 million out of their asses and shout genocide.

    It's a complete myth.


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    #864
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Don't know if it's the MH RIAH which disappeared over the weekend or they (Iran) have siezed another tanker claiming it was smuggling oil

    http://news.sky.com/story/iran-seizes-foreign-tanker-with-12-crew-accused-of-smuggling-oil-11765614
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #865
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Gatling wrote: »
    Don't know if it's the MH RIAH which disappeared over the weekend or they (Iran) have siezed another tanker claiming it was smuggling oil

    http://news.sky.com/story/iran-seizes-foreign-tanker-with-12-crew-accused-of-smuggling-oil-11765614


    Same vessel iran claimed suffered technical issues and had to be towed,
    Now confirmed that they siezed the tanker MH RIAH
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #866
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Gatling wrote: »
    Same vessel iran claimed suffered technical issues and had to be towed,
    Now confirmed that they siezed the tanker MH RIAH

    Confusion right now if this even happened. Iran claiming different things. I wait for proper confirmation from the owners of the ship.


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    #867
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Confusion right now if this even happened. Iran claiming different things. I wait for proper confirmation from the owners of the ship.

    Iran has confirmed it Iranian revolutionary guard siezed the vessel and said an Iranian court issued a warrant saying the tanker was smuggling oil .
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #868
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Gatling wrote: »
    Iran has confirmed it Iranian revolutionary guard siezed the vessel and said an Iranian court issued a warrant saying the tanker was smuggling oil .

    Nobody wants to claim ownership for this ship i find that suspicious. Surely if belongs to some country there be claim made already. UAE, Saudis, UK and United States are not sayng anything. There a possibility the ship was spying in Iranian waters. I just find it strange nobody yet wants to claim the ship.


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    #869
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Gatling wrote: »
    Same vessel iran claimed suffered technical issues and had to be towed,
    Now confirmed that they siezed the tanker MH RIAH

    It seems to be a large ship and not a huge oil tanker. It can carry oil, but not a tanker the size we have seen recently.


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    #870
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Nobody wants to claim ownership for this ship i find that suspicious. Surely if belongs to some country there be claim made already. UAE, Saudis, UK and United States are not sayng anything. There a possibility the ship was spying in Iranian waters. I just find it strange nobody yet wants to claim the ship.
    I've found little is said in these type of matters until the safety of the crew is obtained.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #871
    Varik
    Registered Users Posts: 12,485 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    Iran hasn't said what ship it is people think it's the UAE ship. Ships disappeared right around that time.

    showphoto.aspx?photoid=756504

    Where it disappeared just on the iran side of the strait, ship was moving at a steady pace and it's not like it was very far into Iranian waters to make it any easier to spy.

    485605.JPG


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