Ratings Discussion Thread - Mod Warning #271 (26th June)

J. Marston

Omackeral wrote: »

By God the wheels have come off

♫ I'll be your heeeeroooo ♫

God what a tune.

The White Wolf

lawlolawl wrote: »

"Smackdown was built around advertising Bayley on “A Moment of Bliss” and Xavier Woods vs. Dolph Ziggler. They also added Seth Rollins & Kofi Kingston vs. Kevin Owens & Sami Zayn in a match announced during the program as the main event."

It's sad that all of the workers mentioned in this are actually pretty good but you just can't bring yourself to care about any of it because it's all happening under the WWE system of "each Sports Entertainer™ only has 5 moves and wins and losses don't matter so it's 50/50 booking all over".

It's the random tag team match that they added that irritates me. What are they even doing with Rollins, Owens and Zayn? At least Kofi has that God awful program with Ziggler but the other 3 just seem to have no coherent direction from week to week.

So on paper it sounds like a good tag match but in the grand scheme of teams it does nothing to entice me as it's not going to further any long term story.

It's funny to me that what seems to be the most coherent story they have right now is one involving Shane McMahon.

lawlolawl

https://twitter.com/BrandonThurston/status/1142111001837486082

Go through this entire thread. Pretty much every metric of success is falling in WWE.

SureYWouldntYa

lawlolawl wrote: »

Go through this entire thread. Pretty much every metric of success is falling in WWE.

I hate seeing house show attendances falling because of how much they all kill themselves on the road, if money isn't being made that way they're killing themselves for nothing

leggo

It’s mad how the ratings are almost bang in-line with USA Network’s overall decline but you choose to see it the way that suits what you want to believe.

Nevermind the fact that USA renewed Raw during this period for more money than ever and wanted to renew SD, so they themselves see WWE as the solution and not the cause.

Jerichoholic

Nonsense.

The PPV isn't barely half sold out and they are offering 2 for 1 tickets at $20, WWE's popularity is in serious decline. Can you not see that?

Omackeral

Jerichoholic wrote: »

Nonsense.

The PPV isn't barely half sold out and they are offering 2 for 1 tickets at $20, WWE's popularity is in serious decline. Can you not see that?

Plus don't forget that Omackeral, a two time poster of the year on PW Boards, doesn't watch Raw anymore.

Jerichoholic

I honestly don't know anyone who does anymore. And you wonder why Sky dropped them after 30 years?

leggo

Jerichoholic wrote: »

Nonsense.

The PPV isn't barely half sold out and they are offering 2 for 1 tickets at $20, WWE's popularity is in serious decline. Can you not see that?

It’s obviously down, nobody is disputing that. But can you not see that this has happened time and again over the years? That’s the reality for any entertainment entity, especially one that doesn’t take breaks, people will get fatigued. The NFL was believed to be in crisis a couple years back around the Colin Kaepernick kneeling issue. I remember people getting bored of ‘The Big 4’ constantly dominating in the Premier League years ago. And neither of them run 52 weeks a year.

We could actually have an interesting conversation about that if people didn’t need to get hyperbolic and took time to understand the situation in full. There’s a HUGE gap between “ratings could improve” and using words like “crisis”, “failing” and “in-decline.” But people either don’t understand that because they’re believing misleading ‘journalism’ or want to push the narrative that they want to push and fit the ‘facts’ to suit that, so it quickly gets ridiculous.

lawlolawl

There's a wrestling boom at the moment that has NJPW, AAA and AEW running successful shows in various territories but this boom is somehow completely avoiding WWE who can barely half-fill an arena in their home country by having a BOGOF offer.


This is totally normal and not a sign of a dying company at all.



People are so thrilled to see 50 year old Shane O Mac, Roman "Beige" Reigns (the Rocks cousin, remember the Rock?), Brocky 2 Moves and a host of criminally poorly booked workers that they are straight up avoiding the product completely so that they don't literally explode from excitement!


The tarped off sections at live shows and Smackdown are to protect people from the blood and guts that are sprayed everywhere from people overenjoying yet another pointless 6 man tag with Bob Lashley, Baron Corbin and whoever, wait, that guy is still signed? I thought he left.

leggo

Omackeral wrote: »

Just a point of information, you're the only one on this thread who has used that phrase (that WWE is dying) or is using it in your arguments. Nobody else is saying it or has said it.

Remember people were like "Oh nobody is saying WWE is dying"?

lawlolawl wrote: »

This is totally normal and not a sign of a dying company at all.

There it is. It always comes out eventually. :pac:

Agent Coulson

My Dad is stronger than your Dad.

Omackeral

Agent Coulson wrote: »

My Dad is stronger than your Dad.

leggo

Gifs: when your words are turning out to be utter ****e but saying “oh you had a point, it’s literally right there now in front of me” might just kill you...

“Nobody is saying that!”
“Look that lad literally just said it.”
“Uh...Lex Luger. I’m not wrong, you’re just a narcissist!”

Spoiler alert: the next stage of when people refuse to admit they were wrong in Internet discussions is claiming they never cared that much to begin with...

Necro

lawlolawl wrote: »

There's a wrestling boom at the moment that has NJPW, AAA and AEW running successful shows in various territories but this boom is somehow completely avoiding WWE who can barely half-fill an arena in their home country by having a BOGOF offer.


This is totally normal and not a sign of a dying company at all.



People are so thrilled to see 50 year old Shane O Mac, Roman "Beige" Reigns (the Rocks cousin, remember the Rock?), Brocky 2 Moves and a host of criminally poorly booked workers that they are straight up avoiding the product completely so that they don't literally explode from excitement!


The tarped off sections at live shows and Smackdown are to protect people from the blood and guts that are sprayed everywhere from people overenjoying yet another pointless 6 man tag with Bob Lashley, Baron Corbin and whoever, wait, that guy is still signed? I thought he left.

It's impossible to have a good faith debate with you on ratings imo when you come out with posts like the above, particularly the bolded statement.

It's just hyperbolic nonsense.

None of the three companies you mention can be compared in the same vein as WWE. One off sell-out shows mean absolutely nothing in the context of WWE supposedly dying.


I mean when the AEW TV product debuts and is a number of points below WWE I could then, as you are now - argue that AEW is 'dying' which would be both ridiculous and unfair to them.


One of the main issues that WWE has at the moment is actually over-saturation. 5 hours of live TV per week then 205 Live and NXT as well is just far too much.

The writing is also dogsh1t but that's an objective viewpoint.

Jerichoholic

There is certainly cause to take notice when when WWE are failing to sell 6,000 seats for a ppv and their competition's most recent show had more demand than Wrestlemania 35 ticket wise.

leggo

Jerichoholic wrote: »

There is certainly cause to take notice when when WWE are failing to sell 6,000 seats for a ppv and their competition's most recent show had more demand than Wrestlemania 35 ticket wise.

We have no idea on the actual demand of the show because zero questions were asked by people in a position to ask them. Meltzer reported it as the most in-demand show ever in wrestling, meaning he’s saying a main event with Hangman Page would’ve sold more than Hogan/Andre. It’s a ridiculous notion and anyone who buys it comes off as just gullible and easily worked. This is the issue I’m blue in the face telling people.

It’s not AEW’s fault, their job is to put out the best spin possible because they’ve got a TV show to build as much hype as possible around, or else they face being embarrassed when their ratings come in lower than anything SmackDown has ever done after promising otherwise. But someone needs to ask questions and not one person is, they instead report the BS figures as ridiculous fact. And in a fair media landscape they’d be ridiculed, but in wrestling people don’t like Baron Corbin so they just go along with it because “myeh myeh Vince McMahon is evil because he didn’t push my favourite wrestler” or something.

Necro

Jerichoholic wrote: »

There is certainly cause to take notice when when WWE are failing to sell 6,000 seats for a ppv and their competition's most recent show had more demand than Wrestlemania 35 ticket wise.

I just don't think it's a fair comparison to either tbh.

You're comparing one off shows, yes with large popularity (for now) to an absolute juggernaut that pumps out 7 hours of TV per week not including PPVs.

If anything I'd be of the opinion that WWE are harming themselves by producing so much TV on top of house shows and international tours - but evidently there is a market for this otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.

I'm interested in how the AEW TV product turns out and how it will be objectively (ie: not by shills like Meltzer) reviewed once it begins.

It's one thing putting on fantastic matches and a great show for a once-off extravaganza, it's an entirely different ballgame trying to come up with weekly programming.

WWE aren't doing well at this at the moment as it's all so repetitive, so I wonder how it will turn out for AEW with a much smaller roster and, by all accounts - the inmates running the asylum.

Jerichoholic

I think AEW are on to something good. WWE give you what they think is best, they don't care about what fans think. Just look at the state of this upcoming ppv.

AEW have a totally different mindset. For example. Loredo Kid had an absolute all time blowaway match recently with El Hijo del Vikingo. AEW noticed this and put him straight into the main event at the show next week.

WWE would have offered him a development deal, put in NXT for 5 years, changed his name, changed his look and make him work the awful WWE style.

Omackeral

Jerichoholic

leggo wrote: »

We have no idea on the actual demand of the show because zero questions were asked by people in a position to ask them. Meltzer reported it as the most in-demand show ever in wrestling, meaning he’s saying a main event with Hangman Page would’ve sold more than Hogan/Andre. It’s a ridiculous notion and anyone who buys it comes off as just gullible and easily worked. This is the issue I’m blue in the face telling people.

It’s not AEW’s fault, their job is to put out the best spin possible because they’ve got a TV show to build as much hype as possible around, or else they face being embarrassed when their ratings come in lower than anything SmackDown has ever done after promising otherwise. But someone needs to ask questions and not one person is, they instead report the BS figures as ridiculous fact. And in a fair media landscape they’d be ridiculed, but in wrestling people don’t like Baron Corbin so they just go along with it because “myeh myeh Vince McMahon is evil because he didn’t push my favourite wrestler” or something.

You're very bitter towards Meltzer. Have you got any evidence whatsoever that number is BS? You calling him a liar for reporting facts is laughable.

He teaches sports business classes in a University for God's sake.

Omackeral

Jerichoholic wrote: »

You're very bitter towards Meltzer. Have you got any evidence whatsoever that number is BS? You calling him a liar for reporting facts is laughable.

He teaches sports business classes in a University for God's sake.

Yeah but did he ever sell out the Woolshed?

Necro

Meltzer is a spoofer of the highest order, that's been documented on multiple threads in this forum for months now. I take everything he says with a large dose of skepticism.

Jerichoholic

Omackeral wrote: »

Yeah but did he ever sell out the Woolshed?

Demand to watch wrestlemania in a pub in Dublin was high where the main event had a girl from Dublin wrestling for the title.

This proves more than Dave Meltzer's fake numbers that WWE is at it's peak popularity.

Jerichoholic

Necro wrote: »

Meltzer is a spoofer of the highest order, that's been documented on multiple threads in this forum for months now. I take everything he says with a large dose of skepticism.

He's not a spoofer at all. A few geeks posting in a forum doesn't make him one. I've subscribed to the Observer for years, never had any problem with anything he's said.

He's taken out of context and misquoted all the time though.

leggo

Lads can you make one coherent argument without attacking me personally between the lot of you? You talk about me being bitter yet constantly bring up stuff like me selling out Woolshed (you’re doing some job ignoring me btw Omackerel)...what does any of that have to do with WWE’s ratings or AEW?

Stop throwing the toys out of the pram because you can’t argue the point, seriously.

Necro

Jerichoholic wrote: »

He's not a spoofer at all. A few geeks posting in a forum doesn't make him one. I've subscribed to the Observer for years, never had any problem with anything he's said.

He's taken out of context and misquoted all the time though.

He's also been patently wrong about a lot of things recently. Or is that misquotation too?

Jerichoholic

Necro wrote: »

He's also been patently wrong about a lot of things recently. Or is that misquotation too?

Give examples

Necro

Jerichoholic wrote: »

Give examples

I found the leaps around the women's main event particularly amusing myself. Seemed to change every week.

I find his overwhelming positivity about AEW nauseating as well. I don't have any issues with the company and wish them well, but there is literally no objectivity from him when it comes to them.

It may work out well, it may not. I'll judge them on their product as it evolves.

J. Marston

Jerichoholic wrote: »

I think AEW are on to something good. WWE give you what they think is best, they don't care about what fans think. Just look at the state of this upcoming PPV

Dunno about that. Look at Mania, they gave fans everything they wanted. The hardcore and casual were all desperate for a Seth/Kofi/Becky hat-trick and we got it.