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Homophobic attack on London bus - mod warning, please see OP
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Isn't it funny how I state that my family are Irish yet you see the fact that some of my Irish born family are not white as personal bias.
This speaks volumes about your own biases
You're keeping count of the 8 black people in your family. I honestly don't care enough to keep track. You do.0 -
It is in everyone's interests to publicise the identities of the attackers. People are jumping to conclusions about black gangs etc. and will hold onto these conclusions unless they are convinced otherwise. Otherwise, to call this a homophobic attack is a not correct as they could have been a gay gang.0
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Hedgelayer wrote:No they don't have racist thoughts, they're maybe uneducated and don't know the facts.Hedgelayer wrote:Maybe the anti racist brigade should help the racist's realize that racism isn't supported or nice.Hedgelayer wrote:Instead of getting all anxty with racist's why not help them find a better place, anger isn't justified.
Here's the thing, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. You won't change people with ingrained fear of something different to their narrow view. Bigots hide behind things. I saw two brothers get kicked from a Facebook group recently for continuously calling Leo varadkar perverted and unnatural. They claimed that their Catholic religion thought them this to be true. The word of the Lord, no less.0 -
Here's the thing, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. You won't change people with ingrained fear of something different to their narrow view. Bigots hide behind things. I saw two brothers get kicked from a Facebook group recently for continuously calling Leo varadkar perverted and unnatural. They claimed that their Catholic religion thought them this to be true. The word of the Lord, no less.
What has those brothers got to do with my post ?
Yes I know all about the horse and water thing.
But eventually the horse will get thirsty and take a drink, why the hell would you be forceful with disabling racist's.
They're hurt some way themselves, if you and other sjw's showed love and compassion to racist's maybe just maybe they'll understand that racism isn't acceptable.
Instead you compare them to an old anology about a horse.
Racist's are human beings too.0 -
Sand wrote:You're keeping count of the 8 black people in your family. I honestly don't care enough to keep track. You do.
I can tell you how many white family members I have but that wouldn't interest you. My point that of course you missed is that you can be any colour & be Irish. Colour does not dictate nationality nor has it done in Dublin for 4 or 5 decades.0 -
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Assetbacked wrote: »It is in everyone's interests to publicise the identities of the attackers. People are jumping to conclusions about black gangs etc. and will hold onto these conclusions unless they are convinced otherwise. Otherwise, to call this a homophobic attack is a not correct as they could have been a gay gang.
Yeah you can't go anywhere without groups of gay lads telling women to kiss each other etc.
Seriously is mammy still dressing you or have you managed to start to do this for yourself.
The only people who are interested in who the attackers were in terms of skin colour etc are the same ones complaining that the actual attack was reported due to the fact that the girls are a couple. In other words assholes.0 -
I can tell you how many white family members I have but that wouldn't interest you. My point that of course you missed is that you can be any colour & be Irish. Colour does not dictate nationality nor has it done in Dublin for 4 or 5 decades.
Who said it did apart from yourself? You are the one keeping track of "black" and "white" members of your Irish family. Aren't they all Irish?
If you were related to Paul McGrath, would you count him as one of the "black" or "white" members?0 -
theoneeyedman wrote: »Terrible attack, very sad, scummy behaviour, one wonders about the thought processes of the gang involved.
But, apart from that, the BBC has a dedicated LGBT Correspondent?!?!
WTF?
A handsome chap, and no doubt very qualified for the job. It might amaze you to know that BBC radio has a Woman's Hour programme daily, started way back in 1946.
The thought processes of racist, homophobic, Muslim, Catholic, lowlife, scumbag, Neanderthal, misogynistic ethnic minority teenagers are easy enough for people here to discern.0 -
Hedgelayer wrote:Instead you compare them to an old anology about a horse.
Ah stop. Horses make more sense then a racist. You'll never see a horse in Cheltenham saying "I'm not running beside him, he's an Arab horse"0 -
"Why do Gay people still need to have a Pride parade, sure there's no more real homophobia."
"Oh this wasn't a gay attack, sure they attacked a gay couple, harassed them, attacked them and told them to kiss but this wasn't a gay attack."
"Probably Muslims."
Jesus Christ I weep for After Hours these days. Long gone are the days of fun and banter, now it's just right wingers spreading their usual ****e.
Will you not even acknowledge that they could just as easily have attacked somebody else? Okay the lesbians drew their attention, but it could have been anybody “different” or unthreatening on that train.0 -
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Is an attack on a heterosexual a “heterosexual attack?”0
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Sonny noggs wrote: »Hard to say without the facts. Then again we wouldn’t be hearing about it at all if the victims were straight.
Trying real hard to get out of this. First you make a remark why did they not give attackers race and color got called out. Then tried to move the goalposts by saying you meant black brits.
Then tried to question why sexuality and gender of the attacked but again not the ethnicity and again get called out and then try to move the goalposts.
Why not just come out and say what you mean0 -
Sand wrote:Who said it did apart from yourself? You are the one keeping track of "black" and "white" members of your Irish family. Aren't they all Irish?Sand wrote:If you were related to Paul McGrath, would you count him as one of the "black" or "white" members?
I'd call him Irish. I don't see him as black or white. I see him as an Irish man.
It's you that brought colour into it by asking if Paul McGrath was British. An unusual question imo. He is Irish, as is Phil Lynnott. Both born in England yet both as Irish as you and I. The point is that you can be any colour & any religion & be totally Irish. Some of the more colourful side of my family are more Irish than some of the racist keyboard warriors you see on social media & boards.0 -
The point I am trying to make is that your view is far too simplistic. Identity is complicated. Every person owns their own identity. Its not for me or you to set simplistic rules that anyone born in a particular geographical area must be of the people in the that area. McGrath is not exclusively British simply because he was born in the UK.
Equally, no one can simply claim the identity of a people the happen to share territory with. I do not become English simply by living in London. I can however be British, because anyone living in London for 5 years can be British. English and British are not interchangeable terms - one is an ethnicity and the other is a passport.
The attackers can be described as "British" and be from any part of the world. British as an identity has practically no meaning.
I have to admit that I may have confused race with ethnicity. I could continue this discussion although I think we're actually agree on most points (after all that) however I believe people like Farage would argue that British is an ethnicity ie sharing a common British ancestry etc etc however we've veered wildly off topic.
I maintain that both the ethnicity and race of the attackers in this instance are irrelevant.0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »yeah
this is an irish discussion board in which people constantly bring up foreign news stories with an agenda and then bemoan the posters around them when its not followed to the letter
cesspit pearclutchin wails
the other site talking about trump ffs
ive asked on a few occasions why its worthy of notice that a specific crime on a specific type of person in a different country should be utilised to drum up my (to use the other poster's term) empathy
or else im obviously guilty of supporting the attackers
on the other hand when i ask why the personal characteristics of the attackers is an irrelevancy thats open season too
its ridiculous.
ye are far too desperate to be connected to a certain type of event and all too ready to acclaim yer credentials and declare the guilt of anyone not quick enough to jump in to the useless cant ("show empathy" to people several hundred miles away ffs, are ye starting a book of condoloences?)
there are several billion people in the world. telling people which ones and which events should matter to them every five seconds is a political position and to pretend it isnt is ridiculous.
It's an open public site where people can start threads on anything (legal). You are not forced to be here but as it is a public site people can disagree with you. Start a thread if you fell strongly on something. 2 people got attacked here and instead of going awful someone is attacked and they were target as they were women and gay. The youths may not have gone near them otherwise.
Instead you come on here to try and derail and are shocked and offended when people challenge you0 -
Rubberchikken wrote: »why did these women think that attempting to joke with these muppets would diffuse the situation?
Thats an odd question in the context of how the thread has generally gone but I think I can answer it in a general sense without referring to the actual incident here.
Humor is a very valid and sometimes quite effective way to build a connection with people. It humanizes you in the eyes of the other sometimes. So quite often in desperate situations people will attempt humor to build a link.
It does not just limit itself to desperate situations either. I do a lot of close up magic and mentalism magic. Humor can quickly diffuse aggression suspicion and even skepticism when used right. It is one of the most powerful tools you can use as any kind of magician. You can practice and practice the right moves until you go blue - but you add humor to your toolbox you will excel yourself over night.
The same is often claimed as true in situations with authority. For example a lot of people claim if you make a cop laugh who is about to get you with something you more often than not get out of the situation.
Hell I might even go so far as to recommend it in a hostage situation. Rather than begging for your life and making yourself look like an animal - or threatening your captor and making yourself into the enemy - I would suggest humor might potentially make you a person in their eyes and build a rapport and help your survival. Though I say that as a guess - would love to see if there is a study on that!
TLDR - Humor can make you a real person in the eyes of an aggressor or a mark and save your skin.0 -
As others have stated where are all the threads for all the other crimes much more serious than this against ordinary Londoners going about their lives.
Is it because the victims were gay, are we supposed to feel a special empathy and sense of shock for them.
People are being knifed every other day in London, cos of the runners they had , cos of the bike they had, cos of the watch they had , cos of the clothes they wore, cos of the car they drove , cos of the joke they made and I don’t see any threads started for them . Pretty much every time someone gets a beating the perpretrators will make some comment to the victim, in this case it was about their sexuality, big deal.
I feel sorry for the two girls for their ordeal but to be honest I feel more sorry for many many others, victims like Nedim Bilgin (17 years old and knifed to death cos he wouldn’t hand over his bike). Wheres the thread for him and the 1000 other victims of knife crime in London in the last 5 years.
All this outrage cos some scumbags beat a few girls over the head and theres a homophobic twist to it, and the bulk of the posters didn’t care much about a 17 year old getting knifed cos he had a new bike.
And if this thread is meant to signify an interest in LGBT issues in the UK then where is the thread about the Birmingham school protests currently taking place in the UK, in Anderton shool. The head teacher is bringing in the concept of same sex relationships teaching on the curriculum and the local community as well as elements from all over Birmingham have come to stage protests for the last few weeks outside her school.
This same-sex teaching will be mandatory in all UK schools next year, as I understand, I wonder how that will play out.
Are these going to be the moments when the LGBT community gets a bit woke.
Is this where the confrontation we all knew was coming finally plays out, where LGBT intolerance meets the religion of peace intolerance.
And this week we have Lord Mayor of London Sadiq Khan an immigrant from Pakistan(a country with one of the worst human rights records in the world) is lauded by the left for not meeting Trump and insulting Trump, the same Sadiq Khan who had no problem welcoming the Chinese premier and says very little about his country of his parents origins issues.
Theres no balance to any discsuiion these days, nobody willing to grasp thorny and uncomfortable aspects of issues, its all so political correct. The news media passes over digging to the root of many crimes cos they are waiting for crimes like this to come along that fit some modern sense of outrage cos it ticks a bunch of boxes some social justice warrior with an agenda who controls the media outlet has , and we are all supposed to adopt the same outtrage.
It all reminds me of the laughable moment when the Icelandic Eurovision entry waved their Palestine flag in Israel, imagine how long they would last if Hamas got their hands on them if they were to walk thru the West Bank as they were.
Globollixation has a lot to answer for.0 -
martingriff wrote: »It's an open public site where people can start threads on anything (legal). You are not forced to be here but as it is a public site people can disagree with you. Start a thread if you fell strongly on something. 2 people got attacked here and instead of going awful someone is attacked and they were target as they were women and gay. The youths may not have gone near them otherwise.
Instead you come on here to try and derail and are shocked and offended when people challenge you
not at all
theres no derailing, for a start? what is the "point" of the thread?
its not me thats upset that im being disagreed with, im interested- and have said so without getting into any sh1tty right wing rubbish- in why the options on a thread like this- the starting of which is in itself a position- are dont post or only post support for a specific position
thats p1ss poor stuff.
"instead of going thats awful someone was attacked" i mean whats the point of that? whats the relevance? what value to them, what value to me, what value to you, to boards?
its twee, its chaff, its vapid, its blubber. congrats you rushed to the correct position, you pass the internet righteousness fire drill.
im not shocked and offended by anything but im hugely amused that these threads, which only exist to serve as a call to useless vocal reaction, provoke so many to upset if people question what the point of it is.
and most posters getting so deliciously ~~~upset~~~ by any response that isnt cheerleading are only bristling to do so. if ye didnt get the trolls ye'd be disappointed, because ye cant be as outraged as ye like without a focal point to lash the aul j'accuse at
again: boards isnt sh1t because there are trolls. boards isnt sh1t because im not clapping in time with your designated cause du jour.
its sh1t because the quality of posting from either faction is tedious and limited in the extreme0 -
FunLover18 wrote:I maintain that both the ethnicity and race of the attackers in this instance are irrelevant.
As it is irrelevant in most cases.
On the North side of Dublin there are several gangs that hop on & off the DART to cause trouble. Numbers can be 30 to 50 teenagers. Sightings of these groups are reported in real time on local Facebook groups. Every week some tit will ask are they Irish? You've had eye witnesses describe the mayhem & damage caused by the gang & someone wants to know if they are black or white. This blows me away. Is it better to have your car smashed with bars by black or white kids. Will someone genuinely sleep better knowing that their car is vandalised white kids? The mind truly Boggles
Colour & race of the attackers isn't always relevant to the assault.0 -
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DubInMeath wrote: »Yeah you can't go anywhere without groups of gay lads telling women to kiss each other etc.
Seriously is mammy still dressing you or have you managed to start to do this for yourself.
The only people who are interested in who the attackers were in terms of skin colour etc are the same ones complaining that the actual attack was reported due to the fact that the girls are a couple. In other words assholes.
You've made an assumption it wasnt a group of gays. I'm sorry, but you don't know this. As such, your following points are invalid and you appear to find it blinding to your train of thought to see that people aren't just seeing this incident solely as "homophobic attack on two lesbians by men" but discussing the incident.
If you want a little echo chamber, go to Twitter and block those who upset you like a good poster.0 -
equallyAs it is irrelevant in most cases.
On the North side of Dublin there are several gangs that hop on & off the DART to cause trouble. Numbers can be 30 to 50 teenagers. Sightings of these groups are reported in real time on local Facebook groups. Every week some tit will ask are they Irish? You've had eye witnesses describe the mayhem & damage caused by the gang & someone wants to know if they are black or white. This blows me away. Is it better to have your car smashed with bars by black or white kids. Will someone genuinely sleep better knowing that their car is vandalised white kids? The mind truly Boggles
Colour & race of the attackers isn't always relevant to the assault.\\
Colour & race of the attackers isnt always ir-relevant to the assault either.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »not at all
theres no derailing, for a start? what is the "point" of the thread?
its not me thats upset that im being disagreed with, im interested- and have said so without getting into any sh1tty right wing rubbish- in why the options on a thread like this- the starting of which is in itself a position- are dont post or only post support for a specific position
thats p1ss poor stuff.
"instead of going thats awful someone was attacked" i mean whats the point of that? whats the relevance? what value to them, what value to me, what value to you, to boards?
its twee, its chaff, its vapid, its blubber. congrats you rushed to the correct position, you pass the internet righteousness fire drill.
im not shocked and offended by anything but im hugely amused that these threads, which only exist to serve as a call to useless vocal reaction, provoke so many to upset if people question what the point of it is.
and most posters getting so deliciously ~~~upset~~~ by any response that isnt cheerleading are only bristling to do so. if ye didnt get the trolls ye'd be disappointed, because ye cant be as outraged as ye like without a focal point to lash the aul j'accuse at
again: boards isnt sh1t because there are trolls. boards isnt sh1t because im not clapping in time with your designated cause du jour.
its sh1t because the quality of posting from either faction is tedious and limited in the extreme
But you did not start off with what is the point of these threads. You started off giving out they did not tell you the enithecity in the piece. It was only after people disagreed with you and asked what you meant by it at to stop speaking in riddles you started the crap of what is the point of the thread so come on and tell us straight what you mean be straight with us.0 -
As it is irrelevant in most cases.
On the North side of Dublin there are several gangs that hop on & off the DART to cause trouble. Numbers can be 30 to 50 teenagers. Sightings of these groups are reported in real time on local Facebook groups. Every week some tit will ask are they Irish? You've had eye witnesses describe the mayhem & damage caused by the gang & someone wants to know if they are black or white. This blows me away. Is it better to have your car smashed with bars by black or white kids. Will someone genuinely sleep better knowing that their car is vandalised white kids? The mind truly Boggles
Colour & race of the attackers isn't always relevant to the assault.
What planet are you living on?
Off course it's relevant to the assault.0 -
Assetbacked wrote: »You've made an assumption it wasnt a group of gays. I'm sorry, but you don't know this. As such, your following points are invalid and you appear to find it blinding to your train of thought to see that people aren't just seeing this incident solely as "homophobic attack on two lesbians by men" but discussing the incident.
If you want a little echo chamber, go to Twitter and block those who upset you like a good poster.
Nope I seeing it as two women attacked by a gang of assholes and a few on here making the usual stupid comments on needing to know the colour/ethnicity of their attackers and/or complaining about the fact that the attack made the news because of the sexual orientation of the victims.
At the end of the day two women were assaulted and that's what people should be against, but their sexual orientation or the colour/ethnicity of their attackers are more important to some.0 -
2 women were bloodily beaten up by a group of men in a violent homophobic attack. Why do some men get upset, angry and offended at gay people existing, they could have just minded their own business on what other's people's sexuality is but they rather intervene in strangers lives and beat them up for being gay.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-48555889
It’s not all men who are homophobes, plenty of women too0 -
Assetbacked wrote:You've made an assumption it wasnt a group of gays. I'm sorry, but you don't know this. As such, your following points are invalid and you appear to find it blinding to your train of thought to see that people aren't just seeing this incident solely as "homophobic attack on two lesbians by men" but discussing the incident.
Let's break it down here a little. Around 5 percent of the population are gay. There is a 95 percent chance that all or most of the gang were straight. Then ask yourself how many gay men want to see two girls kiss & how many straight men want to see it. I've stumbled across porn over my 50 odd years on this planet. In just about every straight porn movie there is a girl on girl scene because straight men want to see this. How many girl on girl scenes do you suppose are in gay men porn movies?
Statistically I could win the lottery. I think the odds on a male gay gang attacking these girls are even slimmer than me winning the lotto.0 -
Sweetemotion wrote: »What planet are you living on?
Off course it's relevant to the assault.
Other than providing a description to the police how is it?0 -
DubInMeath wrote: »
Nope I seeing it as two women attacked by a gang of assholes and a few on here making the usual stupid comments on needing to know the colour/ethnicity of their attackers and/or complaining about the fact that the attack made the news because of the sexual orientation of the victims.
At the end of the day two women were assaulted and that's what people should be against, but their sexual orientation or the colour/ethnicity of their attackers are more important to some.
Like Jessie Smolett was assaulted for being gay? This is receiving a suspiciously large amount of coverage despite being incredibly scant on details. I think it is healthy to have a certain level of scepticism and curiosity. And I think you will find that no one for one second would disagree in expressing disgust and anger at those girls being randomly assaulted.0 -
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Some good points there. It's what some are trying to say but incapable of doing so without aggression/sneering/insults.As others have stated where are all the threads for all the other crimes much more serious than this against ordinary Londoners going about their lives.
Is it because the victims were gay, are we supposed to feel a special empathy and sense of shock for them.
People are being knifed every other day in London, cos of the runners they had , cos of the bike they had, cos of the watch they had , cos of the clothes they wore, cos of the car they drove , cos of the joke they made and I don’t see any threads started for them . Pretty much every time someone gets a beating the perpretrators will make some comment to the victim, in this case it was about their sexuality, big deal.
I feel sorry for the two girls for their ordeal but to be honest I feel more sorry for many many others, victims like Nedim Bilgin (17 years old and knifed to death cos he wouldn’t hand over his bike). Wheres the thread for him and the 1000 other victims of knife crime in London in the last 5 years.
All this outrage cos some scumbags beat a few girls over the head and theres a homophobic twist to it, and the bulk of the posters didn’t care much about a 17 year old getting knifed cos he had a new bike.
And if this thread is meant to signify an interest in LGBT issues in the UK then where is the thread about the Birmingham school protests currently taking place in the UK, in Anderton shool. The head teacher is bringing in the concept of same sex relationships teaching on the curriculum and the local community as well as elements from all over Birmingham have come to stage protests for the last few weeks outside her school.
This same-sex teaching will be mandatory in all UK schools next year, as I understand, I wonder how that will play out.
Are these going to be the moments when the LGBT community gets a bit woke.
Is this where the confrontation we all knew was coming finally plays out, where LGBT intolerance meets the religion of peace intolerance.
And this week we have Lord Mayor of London Sadiq Khan an immigrant from Pakistan(a country with one of the worst human rights records in the world) is lauded by the left for not meeting Trump and insulting Trump, the same Sadiq Khan who had no problem welcoming the Chinese premier and says very little about his country of his parents origins issues.
Theres no balance to any discsuiion these days, nobody willing to grasp thorny and uncomfortable aspects of issues, its all so political correct. The news media passes over digging to the root of many crimes cos they are waiting for crimes like this to come along that fit some modern sense of outrage cos it ticks a bunch of boxes some social justice warrior with an agenda who controls the media outlet has , and we are all supposed to adopt the same outtrage.
It all reminds me of the laughable moment when the Icelandic Eurovision entry waved their Palestine flag in Israel, imagine how long they would last if Hamas got their hands on them if they were to walk thru the West Bank as they were.
Globollixation has a lot to answer for.
Iceland at Eurovision with the Palestinian flag was a joke all right. If they really felt so strongly they would not have attended. Anyone can wave a flag.0
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