Gardaí find pistol & Silencer in Blanch.

Cass

Seen this article today about how An Gardí found a loaded pistol with silencer in a wooded area in Blanchardstown.

The gun and silencer combo looked very familiar so i done a bit of digging and then remembered this video doing the rounds from exactly one year ago this week.

Spot the difference with the gun found today (on the left) and one from the video from last year (on the right).

Rows Grower

Top class detective work there Cass.

tuxy

I seen what you done

Cass

Rows Grower wrote: »

Top class detective work there Cass.

punisher5112

Was it yours Cass???


Wonder how many hits it's been used for...

LIFFY FISHING

I see they also found an Airsoft rifle while doing a drugs raid....reported it as an "Air Rifle"...& not as a toy gun....so that will prob go into figures as a firearm recovery ....

Cass

punisher5112 wrote: »

Was it yours Cass???

Eh, no. Jaysus, don't even say something like that in jest. I'll get a "wake up" knock on my door in the wee hours of the morning.

I just find interesting that an illegal gun that was broadcast on a video in a threat on someone's life was found a year later, abandoned.

Wonder how many hits it's been used for...

Rhetorical i know, but who knows what it was used for, if anything.

I only post about it to once AGAIN show the futility of new and harsher gun laws on legal gun owners has no effect on criminals and their ability to get illegal and unlicenseable guns.

It's been said many times before but if they don't obey the current gun laws, don't go through the licensing process what the hell are further gun laws going to do to stop this "flow" of illegal guns?

LIFFY FISHING

sugarman wrote: »

Air Rifle is the correct term, Airsoft is name of the sport itself.

It's still a toy gun and gives the impression that there was a firearm recovered...with all the sub text that is associated with a firearm recovery ...it either been an illegaly held firearm or a stolen one...

punisher5112

Cass wrote: »

Eh, no. Jaysus, don't even say something like that in jest. I'll get a "wake up" knock on my door in the wee hours of the morning.

I just find interesting that an illegal gun that was broadcast on a video in a threat on someone's life was found a year later, abandoned.


Rhetorical i know, but who knows what it was used for, if anything.

I only post about it to once AGAIN show the futility of new and harsher gun laws on legal gun owners has no effect on criminals and their ability to get illegal and unlicenseable guns.

It's been said many times before but if they don't obey the current gun laws, don't go through the licensing process what the hell are further gun laws going to do to stop this "flow" of illegal guns?

Ah I here's you.... I didn't see the video but definitely looks a ringer for it....

No matter what laws are in place these guys will get what they need.

Reati

Cass wrote: »

I only post about it to once AGAIN show the futility of new and harsher gun laws on legal gun owners has no effect on criminals and their ability to get illegal and unlicenseable guns.

There was a crime expert talking on the radio yesterday and she said it was so easy to get a gun here that within 15mins and with 500 euro they could have a loaded handgun bought and be on the way to pick it up.

She said the place was a wash with them. Easier that getting drugs into the country I believe was said too!

Cass

sugarman wrote: »

Air Rifle is the correct term, Airsoft is name of the sport itself.

If it doesn't need a firearms license and you can run around a wood shooting each other with, then it's a toy.

Reati wrote: »

There was a crime expert talking on the radio yesterday and she said it was so easy to get a gun here that within 15mins and with 500 euro they could have a loaded handgun bought and be on the way to pick it up.

I wouldn't doubt it and with the types of weapons these criminals are using, that cannot be bought, licensed or owned here, its not a stretch to believe.

She said the place was a wash with them. Easier that getting drugs into the country I believe was said too!

For anyone visiting the forum not familiar with Irish firearm laws here is what you must do for each and EVERY firearm you want to own:

• 3 month background check/wait time
• Sign away our ability to refuse a check/search of our homes
• Sign away confidentiality of Doctors/medical history
• Have character referees
• Have no criminal convictions
• Have a good reason for the firearm (cannot just have one because you want it)
• Meet umpteen conditions on land ownership, membership of an authorised range, and only shoot the firearm there
• Meet some of the highest, and most expensive, conditions for storage of firearms at our homes

If that itself is not enough then have a look at some of the other criteria we must meet/abide by:

• There are 19 Acts, 63 Statutory Instruments and 2 EU directives on firearms that currently legislate for firearms in the country.
• No one under 14 can have a firearm/license and between 14 to 16 only with the consent of the parents/guardian and only used by a currently licensed person over the age of 18, and the firearm is never left with the child and the child can never have/store the firearm. IOW they never have it unsupervised, EVER.
• There are some 190,000 firearms owned by approx 140,000 people in the country. That is an ownership rate of under 3%. One of the lowest in the world where firearm(s) can be owned by civilians/citizens.
• Each firearm must be separately licensed, there is NOT a "one size fits all" type license
• We cannot have centrefire pistols, anymore
• Semi auto rifles number about 200 - 250 (about 0.1% of the total firearms owned in the state) and they are subject to the checks above, as well as higher checks and home security measures as they are classed as restricted firearms)
• We have NO concealed carry "general" laws in Ireland (they can be gotten, but only directly by the Minister and only when there is a defined and substantial threat to your life)
• We have NO right to keep and bear arms laws (IOW no 2nd amendment)
• We have NO self defense reason for getting a firearm (you cannot get a gun for home defense)

LIFFY FISHING

sugarman wrote: »

I dont know why you keep calling it a "toy gun", Air Rifles are lethal and used wildly in hunting. They can kill a person.

I dont know what else you want them to call it anyway They're using the correct term and id image 99% of the population would know full well what an Air Rifle is.

I call it a Toy gun as Airsoft Guns are not " deadly" they are either spring or gas operated and fire a 6mm plastic bead at less energy than 1 joule. They are bought in toy shops and require NO firearm certificates.
It is not the same as an Air rifle which is .22 or .177 caliber which requires the full AGS application process and requires the owner to hold a firearm certificate if granted .
I have owned licenced Air Rifles...my kids play with Airsoft toys....and as a firearms trainer I know the differance ...

Cass

sugarman wrote: »

I dont know why you keep calling it a "toy gun", Air Rifles are lethal and used wildly in hunting. They can kill a person.

An Air rifle, as in a firearm, can. A BB, Toy, Airsoft gun cannot as it's not a firearm, has less than 1 joule of energy, and is illegal to use for hunting.

Air Rifle



Airsoft/Toy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9iTgakeeWU

If you are still in any doubt ask yourself would you rather get hit with a 4.5-6mm plastic BB doing about 300fps with an impact energy of under one joule or a 200 grain 308 bullet doing 3,000 fps with an impact energy of 4,200 joules?

We make the distinction because no one else will. We cannot do combat style shooting, dynamic, practical shooting, etc. We cannot use reactive targets, cannot be mobile between targets, etc. Hell we cannot even use targets that come close to resembling a human because, you know, feelings.

Grizzly 45

Reati wrote: »

There was a crime expert talking on the radio yesterday and she said it was so easy to get a gun here that within 15mins and with 500 euro they could have a loaded handgun bought and be on the way to pick it up.

She said the place was a wash with them. Easier that getting drugs into the country I believe was said too!

I dont think people understand the concept of how the "black market " functions? As it is an illegal item,and the fact that there is risk and rarity in aquiring such,the BM prices are uually 10 times what it costs to aquire normally. Those Marakov designs are based on a Russian blank firing pistol from Baikal,that is easily modified to fire live rounds,by replacing the barrel.Usually they sell for about 60 euros in Kaliningrad or the Balkans,by the time they get here,and with a home made silencer,you are looking at about that price of 5to600 euro.Thats for a converted blankfiring POS! I'd like to sse what the street price is for a new in the grease, Glock or the like along with ywo loaded mags ?5grand might be more like it.Or what a polish Tantal SMG is going for,definately not 500 quid thats for sure.

But maybe the Irish black market works differently to the entire world,in which everything illegal or hard to get is cheaper??:rolleyes:

solarwinds

It wouldn't surprise me if supply out striped demand here, considering the ease at which they seem to be able to bring them in.

Gatling

Cass wrote: »

If it doesn't need a firearms license and you can run around a wood shooting each other with, then it's a toy.

Unfortunately our laws which governs firearms says you just can't run around shooting each other in the woods with Airsoft devices unless it's a proper registered Airsoft site anything outside of that says your brandishing a Rif (realistic imitation firearm) in a public place and you face charges under firearms legislation

Luckysasha

Talking to a member of AGS at my local pistol range last week and he was at a meeting in dublin with top brass and the propsal their coming up with is a blanket ban on all new pistol licenses. Existing licences will be renewed on a case by case basis As in no automatic renewals you basically have to reapply to keep your pistol every 3 years. I know its all rumour but it goes to show the level of thinking involved by the so called experts !!!

Reati

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I dont think people understand the concept of how the "black market " functions? As it is an illegal item,and the fact that there is risk and rarity in aquiring such,the BM prices are uually 10 times what it costs to aquire normally. Those Marakov designs are based on a Russian blank firing pistol from Baikal,that is easily modified to fire live rounds,by replacing the barrel.Usually they sell for about 60 euros in Kaliningrad or the Balkans,by the time they get here,and with a home made silencer,you are looking at about that price of 5to600 euro.Thats for a converted blankfiring POS! I'd like to sse what the street price is for a new in the grease, Glock or the like along with ywo loaded mags ?5grand might be more like it.Or what a polish Tantal SMG is going for,definately not 500 quid thats for sure.

But maybe the Irish black market works differently to the entire world,in which everything illegal or hard to get is cheaper??:rolleyes:

I certainly don't have any idea as I've not bought anything from thr black market. Just echoing what the so called crime expert was saying in the radio interview. That said I've heard those prices quoted on other interviews before with former criminals (I'll see can I find the recording of it) so who knows. Maybe they are not as rare as ones thinks!

It's interesting that if it's 5grand a gun that they so often dump then after a hit? Would they not want to hold onto to it and seel it on?

Cass

Gatling wrote: »

Unfortunately our laws which governs firearms says you just can't run around shooting each other in the woods with Airsoft devices unless it's a proper registered Airsoft site anything outside of that says your brandishing a Rif (realistic imitation firearm) in a public place and you face charges under firearms legislation

We have the same problem, but any such offense would be brandishing an ACTUAL firearm.

My dog is bigger than yours.

I get your point, but you can imitate combat, fire are others, dress like operators, etc, etc, etc. Same with the paintball guys.

Think about this. With everything i listed 6 posts up, when we go to a range we still have even more rules and it's not just range safety it legislative rules. IOW law. We violate those rules and we are breaking the law.

So with that in mind and getting back on topic, with every law we [the shooting community] must go through what is the fecking point when as soon as something like this happens [gun being found, some criminal being shot by another, etc] the shooting community are not only put under a microscope, but they bring in more laws which only punish those that already stay within the law while doing nothing to combat the actual problem of illegally smuggled firearms.

meathstevie

Luckysasha wrote: »

Talking to a member of AGS at my local pistol range last week and he was at a meeting in dublin with top brass and the propsal their coming up with is a blanket ban on all new pistol licenses. Existing licences will be renewed on a case by case basis As in no automatic renewals you basically have to reapply to keep your pistol every 3 years. I know its all rumour but it goes to show the level of thinking involved by the so called experts !!!

That would be the definition of stupidity committed by senior management and government. It worked very well the last time, let's do it again and expect a different outcome, ****en genius.

Grizzly 45

Reati wrote: »

I certainly don't have any idea as I've not bought anything from thr black market. Just echoing what the so called crime expert was saying in the radio interview. That said I've heard those prices quoted on other interviews before with former criminals (I'll see can I find the recording of it) so who knows. Maybe they are not as rare as ones thinks!

It's interesting that if it's 5grand a gun that they so often dump then after a hit? Would they not want to hold onto to it and seel it on?

So called expert...Got that right! Love to challenge her do go and wow us all by doing it for news worthyness and exclusivieity of course.:rolleyes: Yeah you hear those prices bandied about all the time usually by people in the media or others who have no clue either about how the underworld works. Five grand is nothing to these people to burn a new gun after a hit. Whats that in street value.A weekends worth of sales from two of your dealers?

Forensic evidence for one...Why would you want to be caught with a weapon that has been used in a murder or multiple murders? If they can forensically prove the gun found in your possesion was used in multiple hits.You are looking at multiple charges for crimes you had nothing to do with.
Selling it on, yeah there are stupids out there who would,but whats the chance of the above happening and you being ratted out as the seller once your hitman is in custody looking at multiple charges singing like a canary?

Grizzly 45

Luckysasha wrote: »

Talking to a member of AGS at my local pistol range last week and he was at a meeting in dublin with top brass and the propsal their coming up with is a blanket ban on all new pistol licenses. Existing licences will be renewed on a case by case basis As in no automatic renewals you basically have to reapply to keep your pistol every 3 years. I know its all rumour but it goes to show the level of thinking involved by the so called experts !!!

Thinking....Yeah....:rolleyes:
Just for an example.After the multiple wins on the DC cases in Limerick a rumour started in Limerick that the Limerick drug gangs were desperate for 9mm ammo,and were offering five thousand euros per box of fifty. This too came from "a trusted AGS source" ...I wonder why??:rolleyes:

As in no automatic renewals you basically have to reapply to keep your pistol every 3 years

. You do that anyway with EVERY firearm.It states quite clearly on the form it is a re application not a renewal.

Ok,so they want to go back to court again,and now tackle new applications and open a new big can of worms...Are lots of gangland hits being done with .22 pistols??

Brings me onto these two points. Scuttlebutt /rumours and sources in AGS. DONT TRUST EITHER!! AGS ARE NOT OUR FRIENDS Never have ,never will be either in firearms matters.

They are still sore after multiple ass whuppins they got since 2008 in the courts and in the Dail and even in the EU on this subject,and are now desperate to reclaim the high ground in anyway possible.
So hardly surprising that we have brass still thinking this sht,while their troops morale is in their boots out on the streets,and the public are starting to see what sort of corruption has been going on in this force and they are really worried since "that NI Brit bastard" is ripping into the force and upsetting the order of things. So of course it is to be expected they will do anything to kick back at us,and putting out rumours is of course a traditional and time honoured way of mind fekking your enemies.

Dont belive any and everything you hear from that shower in any shape or form. Try and get confirmation from two or more sources before deciding its gospel on this sort of stuff.Rumours and scuttlebutt can do more damage than actual factual news.Why do you think military brass does everything to suppress it as much as possible?

Cadpat_cowboy

sugarman wrote: »

I dont know why you keep calling it a "toy gun", Air Rifles are lethal and used wildly in hunting. They can kill a person.

I dont know what else you want them to call it anyway They're using the correct term and id image 99% of the population would know full well what an Air Rifle is.

an airsoft gun is not an air gun as an airsoft gun to be an airsoft gun and not a fire arm in this country has to be sub one joule with a certain weight bb. So if its sub one joule its an airsoft gun aka a toy gun same as a cap gun or spud gun in the eyes of the law.

oldgit1897

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

So hardly surprising that we have brass still thinking this sht,while their troops morale is in their boots out on the streets,and the public are starting to see what sort of corruption has been going on in this force and they are really worried since "that NI Brit bastard" is ripping into the force and upsetting the order of things. So of course it is to be expected they will do anything to kick back at us,and putting out rumours is of course a traditional and time honoured way of mind fekking your enemies.

Long, as in decades overdue. The police here were a disgrace, akin to the lot in the Met in London in the 60's, 70's and 80's. Some of the senior officers were more bent than the criminals. And despite the carry on here with the guards, the place was still a crime infested warzone.

tac foley

oldgit1897 wrote: »

Long, as in decades overdue. The police here were a disgrace, akin to the lot in the Met in London in the 60's, 70's and 80's. Some of the senior officers were more bent than the criminals. And despite the carry on here with the guards, the place was still a crime infested warzone.

Back when I was running a course in UK for police agencies to get more au fait with the advanced usage and application of airborne thermal imagery, we had a number of members of AGS attend, as part of the international police technical policy adopted by the British government at that time.

The odd thing was that three of the four were genuinely police aircrew of one kind or another - pilots and air observers - but the fourth was obviously the odd man out, and it was plain to us that he had about as much idea of heliborne TI systems as I did about underwater cake-making for the deaf, let alone flying around in a fast chopper at night.

He was there, we found out, to keep an eye on the others, to make sure they didn't 'blab', and was not actually a uniformed Garda. Being keen aircrew types, the other three came up to all expectations of what was a very technical and demanding three week course, and all spent time with the county police chopper team, including Garda Whatsisname. One of the REAL operators told me one morning, after a particularly gruelling hour-long flight around the bumpy/lumpy skies, that Garda Whatsisname, who HAD to be there on each flight, was as sick as a parrot during the airborne antics, and spent a deal of time in the heads on returning to base...happy days, eh?

Grizzly 45

tac foley wrote: »

Back when I was running a course in UK for police agencies to get more au fait with the advanced usage and application of airborne thermal imagery, we had a number of members of AGS attend, as part of the international police technical policy adopted by the British government at that time.

The odd thing was that three of the four were genuinely police aircrew of one kind or another - pilots and air observers - but the fourth was obviously the odd man out, and it was plain to us that he had about as much idea of heliborne TI systems as I did about underwater cake-making for the deaf, let alone flying around in a fast chopper at night.

He was there, we found out, to keep an eye on the others, to make sure they didn't 'blab', and was not actually a uniformed Garda. Being keen aircrew types, the other three came up to all expectations of what was a very technical and demanding three week course, and all spent time with the county police chopper team, including Garda Whatsisname. One of the REAL operators told me one morning, after a particularly gruelling hour-long flight around the bumpy/lumpy skies, that Garda Whatsisname, who HAD to be there on each flight, was as sick as a parrot during the airborne antics, and spent a deal of time in the heads on returning to base...happy days, eh?

My God ...Hal Roach used to tell a bad working mans club joke like that back in the 1970s.Why do AGS always travel in groups of three?One who can read and write,the other knows how to drive and use a phone,and the last is an SB man o keep an eye on two such possible subversive individuals. Yuo have now shown he wasn't joking at all.:eek: Thats like something out of the KGB and Soviet Russia..

kowloon

Cass wrote: »

We have the same problem, but any such offense would be brandishing an ACTUAL firearm.

My dog is bigger than yours.

I get your point, but you can imitate combat, fire are others, dress like operators, etc, etc, etc. Same with the paintball guys.

On that, if paintball markers are licensed here, are they not restricted by the same rules against practical shooting and the likes?

tac foley wrote: »

Back when I was running a course in UK for police agencies to get more au fait with the advanced usage and application of airborne thermal imagery, we had a number of members of AGS attend, as part of the international police technical policy adopted by the British government at that time.

Sure haven't we all been there

tac foley

kowloon wrote: »

Sure haven't we all been there

?

Cass

kowloon wrote: »

On that, if paintball markers are lisensed here, are they not restricted by the same rules against practical shooting and the likes?

Not only that but as restricted short firearms if they were to be licensed they would not be able to be licensed after Nov 2008.

Grizzly 45

I wonder if any have been?If so there is a challenge to legislation there on discrimination.

extremetaz

sugarman wrote: »

Air Rifle is the correct term, Airsoft is name of the sport itself.

Air rifle is not the correct term, neither colloquially, legally or scientifically.
They are neither rifled, nor are they a firearm.

'Airsoft rifle' is the correct reference term, or 'Replica Imitation Firearm (RIF)' to use the terminology in the applicable legislation.

Seems you don't understand the distinction yourself.

Cass

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I wonder if any have been?If so there is a challenge to legislation there on discrimination.

Doubt it.

Legislation prohibits the licensing of them so any license issued after November 2008 would be void/moot as soon as it was issued.

kowloon

tac foley wrote: »

?

Just messing, training police helicopter crews is not exactly a common experience.

tac foley

kowloon wrote: »

Just messing, training police helicopter crews is not exactly a common experience.

True. By the end of 2000 over forty countries had sent their crews to us.

Grizzly 45

Talked to one of the regular lads in the Bullseye360 today.He has swopped his 40 cal for a 9mm Glock17,which he bought off a dealer in Kerry.He said many of the Kerry lads have done this swop with no problems ...Sofar. Took abit of explaining and some fumbling with his cheif up on the West coast someplace:)...But he has it...I'll still hold fire until 3 years time and see if they get granted with no problems.Or will there be utter chaos?:eek:

solarwinds

Considering that every 3 years its a new application and not a renewal anymore, is that not technically a new licence every 3 years which goes against the no new CF pistol licences post 2009.
If substitutions are allowed of which I would be hopeful but surprised if that was the case, if I was those lads I would be hanging on to my old pistol just in case the Chief turned around and said no. It could be just yet another under handed tactic to remove them from private ownership.
If substitution was allowed does that mean a person could apply for a CF pistol licence, one was held before 2009 but that particular firearm was destroyed. Could a pre 2009 licence be used as no current one is available.
Have those lads long left on their current licenses

Blueshoe

They are just protecting their various revenue streams. We would all do the same.

Grizzly 45

solarwinds wrote: »

Considering that every 3 years its a new application and not a renewal anymore, is that not technically a new licence every 3 years which goes against the no new CF pistol licences post 2009.
If substitutions are allowed of which I would be hopeful but surprised if that was the case, if I was those lads I would be hanging on to my old pistol just in case the Chief turned around and said no. It could be just yet another under handed tactic to remove them from private ownership.
If substitution was allowed does that mean a person could apply for a CF pistol licence, one was held before 2009 but that particular firearm was destroyed. Could a pre 2009 licence be used as no current one is available.
Have those lads long left on their current licenses

Not really as pre 2008 owned pistols are precluded by the act .It could indeed be some trick,hence I said Ill wait and see what happens in the near future with those who are re applying.
As for the rest...No idea...Would be only speculating on my part.

Rifter

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Not really as pre 2008 owned pistols are precluded by the act .It could indeed be some trick,hence I said Ill wait and see what happens in the near future with those who are re applying.
As for the rest...No idea...Would be only speculating on my part.

Just throwing the cat amongst the pigeons, would that act not be open for challenge? Or would you be on a hiding to nothing, surely just setting an arbitrary date and saying everyone before 2008 is of good enough character and post are not!!

Grizzly 45

IT's like many laws here,it falls into a" VRT action".Sure the Govt charging VAT under a different name as VRT is illegal under EU law,but have you the legal team and money to take it to the EU courts,after you have gone thru the whole charade in the Irish courts?And then wit a few years for a result? And if you have that kind of money,are you really arsed on paying a few hundred quid more on an import?
Same with this here.I'd cetainly tip my hat to anyone that does and you have my 1000% support,but if I had that sort of cash,I wouldnt be living here or be going shooting here either.

Rifter

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

IT's like many laws here,it falls into a" VRT action".Sure the Govt charging VAT under a different name as VRT is illegal under EU law,but have you the legal team and money to take it to the EU courts,after you have gone thru the whole charade in the Irish courts?And then wit a few years for a result? And if you have that kind of money,are you really arsed on paying a few hundred quid more on an import?
Same with this here.I'd cetainly tip my hat to anyone that does and you have my 1000% support,but if I had that sort of cash,I wouldnt be living here or be going shooting here either.

To be fair if I had that money id feel the same way, and Id imagine they'd just move the goalposts even if someone was successfull in challenging it.

Cass

solarwinds wrote: »

Considering that every 3 years its a new application and not a renewal anymore, is that not technically a new licence every 3 years which goes against the no new CF pistol licences post 2009.

No because the 2009 act says if you held the license for that firearm, and only that one, prior to November 2008 you may re-apply, but after Nov. 2008 no new licenses will be issued.

If substitutions are allowed

They're not or more accurately its going to come back and bite them in the ass, in my opinion.

..............if I was those lads I would be hanging on to my old pistol just in case the Chief turned around and said no.

Yup.

It could be just yet another under handed tactic to remove them from private ownership.

In this instance i don't think so. The AGS/DoJ did not start this, our own organisations did. They are the ones that said it could be done. The fact it plays into the agenda of removing all pistols is just an added bonus for the PTB.

If substitution was allowed does that mean a person could apply for a CF pistol licence, one was held before 2009 but that particular firearm was destroyed.

Is the license for the one destroyed still current and kept renewed each licensing period? If not then i'd say no.

Could a pre 2009 licence be used as no current one is available.

If the license is current and valid, possibly, but like Grizz i'll keep my powder dry to see what happens in a couple of years.

Have those lads long left on their current licenses

That is the question, isn't it.

Cass

Rifter wrote: »

Just throwing the cat amongst the pigeons, would that act not be open for challenge?

On what basis? The Act and subsequent (including pre 2008) SIs prevent the substituting of restricted firearms.

Or would you be on a hiding to nothing,

Possibly not with the sub, but with the re-application/renewal when the current license expires, i'd imagine so.

surely just setting an arbitrary date and saying everyone before 2008 is of good enough character and post are not!!

It wasn't actually arbitrary.

It was immediately after the murder of Shane Geoghahan when the Minister made a statement in the Dail declaring his intent which when the new 2009 Act came into being was applied retrospectively to the date of his statement. That being November 2008.

Cass

Rifter wrote: »

To be fair if I had that money id feel the same way, and Id imagine they'd just move the goalposts even if someone was successful in challenging it.

Look at New York.

There is currently a Supreme Court challenge to some of the State's gun laws. New York legislators have got wind that the verdict is not going to go their way so they are planning on changing the law, just a little, so that when the verdict comes in regardless of the decision it won't affect the law as it's been changed just enough to not be the one that was challenged.

So as Grizz said even if someone took the time, money and effort, which i'm sure they'd win, the fines imposed by the EU for the charging of VRT is so small in comparison the the revenue it generates that the Irish Gov. will keep applying it.

Yet another reason to get shot of this EU pipe dream. We're being charged taxes, duties illegally as it is so why be in an open and free trade area when we don't benefit.

tac foley

Seems to be the same argument used by the BREXITeers.......

Cass

For focus 1.5 Diesel St Line. In the Uk its £19,200 (€21,500). Ireland, the exact same car starts at €25,000. You buy pre-registered ones, which include on the road prices for €24,500).

BMW 3 series entry level model (318D SE). UK price is £32,000 (€36,100). In Ireland they start at €43,000.

BMW 330, top of the range model. In the UK it's £39,000 (€44,000) and here it starts at €52,000.


Where does the other €3,000, €7,000, and €8,000 additional cost come from? From what used to be called import duty and is now called VRT. So it costs €8,000 to register a car in Ireland.

Even looking at importing and paying your duty as i did this recently for a fmaily member. It was a nearly new (2017) Insignia VXR. Just by changing the wheels size from 18" to 20" on the revenue calculator and the price shoots up by thousands. So tell me why something costs 2 grand more because the wheels are 2" bigger?

Same with older cars. You'll pay as much if not more than the car is worth in "duty" if the car comes with extras such as CD player, Sat-Nav, larger wheels, etc, etc. I mean a lot more.

Cass

By the way cars is just the tip of the Iceberg.

Ireland has it's budget "okay-ed" by Germany/EU. We paid back the bondholders to the tune of billions, bailed out he banks by borrowing huge sums of cash from Europe because they told us to do so, and the leader of FF said that Sovereignty is an outdated notion and backward thinking.

We are in the midst of the worst housing crisis ever but our politicians are fudging the numbers so as not to declare an emergency but at the same time they declare a climate emergency as an excuse to raise taxes and introduce more carbon taxes. Our health system is in shambles, and we are rocked by scandal after scandal from within our Government and police force and the perpetrators of it are not only free to do as they wish, but set up with cushy EU jobs that will add hundreds of thousands of Euro to their already substantial pensions.

Ireland has lost its way. Within 100 years of gaining our independence we have voluntarily surrendered it to a super state of unelected leaders that dictate the rose coloured world politics they want instead of what is happening.

tac foley

Welcome to the EU.

Cass

Don't get me wrong. I'm not one of those tin foil hat wearing, EDL supporting, Doc Marten/Bomber jacket wearing, conspiracy nuts that hates anything EU because it's the EU.

We [citizens] don't seem to get the full benefit of being EU members but do get most of the bills.

Grizzly 45

Cass wrote: »

By the way cars is just the tip of the Iceberg.

Ireland has it's budget "okay-ed" by Germany/EU. We paid back the bondholders to the tune of billions, bailed out he banks by borrowing huge sums of cash from Europe because they told us to do so, and the leader of FF said that Sovereignty is an outdated notion and backward thinking.

We are in the midst of the worst housing crisis ever but our politicians are fudging the numbers so as not to declare an emergency but at the same time they declare a climate emergency as an excuse to raise taxes and introduce more carbon taxes. Our health system is in shambles, and we are rocked by scandal after scandal from within our Government and police force and the perpetrators of it are not only free to do as they wish, but set up with cushy EU jobs that will add hundreds of thousands of Euro to their already substantial pensions.

Ireland has lost its way. Within 100 years of gaining our independence we have voluntarily surrendered it to a super state of unelected leaders that dictate the rose coloured world politics they want instead of what is happening.

Yet Mehole Martin and his tribe will bellow on about the proud Republicanism tradition and freedom ,and the men and women of 1916...Blah,blah,blah. If the signatories of the proclimation could be alive again.They'd proably call the whole thing off and say why bother?

James Connolly was damn right on the whole thing,[and there is little I agree with on Commies].From holding onto our guns,to Ireland swopping the tryanny of the Crown for that of the Harp,and then for the star cluster of the EU.:mad:

We have been sold out by a bunch of glorified county councillors,the majority seem to have been school teachers who leave all the "big decisions" to Europe,so they are never held responsible,while trousering checks and anything else they can get thier paws on.:mad:

Grizzly 45

Cass wrote: »

Don't get me wrong. I'm not one of those tin foil hat wearing, EDL supporting, Doc Marten/Bomber jacket wearing, conspiracy nuts that hates anything EU because it's the EU.

We [citizens] don't seem to get the full benefit of being EU members but do get most of the bills.

Wearing tinfoil hats only will increase the radio signals.:D:D It's why us old timers used to put tinfoi strips on our old indoor "rabbit ears" B&W portable tellies back when I were a lad in the 70's and 80's.:) You need somthing like lead to stop radio signals...Well at least your hat wont fly off in a high wind.:p