Dublin's 24h bus services

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118638555#Comment_118638555

As a senator, his "constituency" is the Industrial and Commercial vocational panel, so his remit doesn't cover Bray or any other physical location. In reality though, Irish politics being what it is, and with one eye on the next election, he would undoubtedly regard Dún Laoghaire as "his" constituency, and the route would cover a good part of it. I think the northernmost tip of Bray would still be in the Dún Laoghaire constituency.

Jamie2k9

I know it was St Patrick's Night but nobody at DB or NTA taught there would be increased demand?

The 41 was complete chaos, 5 buses in 90 mins which is extra but there was easily 80 people left behind as each bus departed. 15 minute service would have been more appropoarte.

Significant changes are needed to night time transport after events. It looks like they just about provided an extra bus or two after venues closed as if it would be a normal night.

p_haugh

Nitelink should also be run for days like Paddy's day, extra services are put on over Christmas so it is possible.

Jamie2k9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118802939#Comment_118802939

Nightlink was running or at least DB website said it was.

Waiting 90 minutes to get on the 41 was a joke and everyone having to push there way on. DB did have a second person who came down who did speak to control but what could he do. if only he could drive a bus...

thomasj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118802910#Comment_118802910

Yeah the 39a left behind 3 or 4 hundred last night at stops along the quays around 1am. Massive numbers with people standing out in front of the buses, and people running after buses. Needless to say it didn't go down too well.

Was told there was meant to be extra buses on the 39a, but whether or not there was is hard to say.

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118803268#Comment_118803268

What, they were standing in front of buses to block everyone else from getting home because there wasn't room for them? When did people - grown adults - become that entitled? If I go out on a night that I know will be really busy, it's my responsibility to get myself home. And I don't have to go out. I can understand people being annoyed (with the operators and the NTA, not with the driver) when public transport capacity isn't sufficient to get them to or from work or hospital appointments, etc. But DB have no obligation whatsoever to provide additional services so that people can go out and get pissed. That's absolutely not part of their public service remit.

Peregrine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118803948#Comment_118803948

It absolutely is part of the public service remit of the NTA and the bus companies. It doesn't matter if they're out late because they were going out, getting pissed, not getting pissed, working late etc. Public transport isn't for work and appointments only. Their job is to provide public transport to meet demand. Not to judge them about being out past bedtime.

Standing in front of buses and getting annoyed with drivers is stupid.

Peregrine

And it's called 'The Night-time Economy' now!

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/c1ba7-report-of-the-night-time-economy-taskforce/

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118803948#Comment_118803948

I disagree. Many PT operators in other European cities are thinking different - they try to serve public and get them to the places public needs as quickly and efficiently as possible, despite of the circumstances... What you're talking about is a pure classic Irish laziness with a lack of responsibility and not even wanting to admit failure or improve. This is one of the reasons Irish PT is still behind and poor quality (can't meet demand, slow to adapt, poor information accessibility, poor routes, poor frequency, poor service hours, expensive for given service etc etc). Just have a look other European capitals and you will clearly see the differences. You really need to work on building your knowledge and working on the attitude. As this rural way of thinking doesn't help the country to improve in any ways. And we have so many problems to deal with (housing, health system, public transport, environment, expensive insurance, lack of Garda etc etc etc).

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118804151#Comment_118804151

Right now, there is a massive shortage of bus drivers. Almost nobody wants to do the job. And only a tiny percentage of those who do would be prepared to work nights - and even fewer would be prepared to volunteer for a late shift on St Patrick's Night. And there really is only so much money you can pay people to drive buses before it becomes sort of ludicrous. The driver shortage, its causes, and how to solve it, is a whole other argument, but it would be far better to throw scant resources at getting people to and from work, school and appointments. Especially since you can get a taxi home for the price of half a round of drinks. Anyone who plans their night out properly has no trouble getting home. Heading to the bus stop at the same time as everyone else is not good planning.

And I would 100% judge people for having such an entitled attitude that they believe a massively subsidised bus home from town after a night out is some sort of basic human right.

dublinman1990

If people were going out getting sloshed while drinking alcohol on one biggest nights of the Irish calendar year. What would you think would be their correct attitude to use on the night in question?

If they thought they had the right to block people going out on an essential journey while using public transport just because it was done as an act of spite or stupidity; well that fault surely lies with them for acting like a stupid fool in the 1st place.

That known fault embedded in some people does not spread to those who actually want to use the service to get from A to B if they had a actual job to go to at that time of the night especially if they are working as hospitality or healthcare workers.

Providing PT services at night has to provide for those who actually want to use the service for genuine purposes & also to those who are known as the stupid ones too whether we like it or not unless they are officially barred from using said service.

Taxpayers money is being used to provide this service to some who live around Dublin. People in London have night bus services going on in their capital for several years. It's a great asset to have & use within that city. People in Dublin have to think about using it fairly in the same way when they get a chance to use upcoming 24 hour bus routes in their own capital city.

Were those people who were blocking the buses on the quays in Dublin last night doing it as a genuine purpose or were they doing it with too much drink in their system while quote "Acting like a *#+@" or whatever other known expletive?

thomasj

Last night was much better, extra buses and all. Apparently there were no inspectors on the 39a route Paddy's night.

bikeman1

What I have noticed and talked to friends etc is that people are now taking the limited 24 hour routes out of the city centre closer to home away from the centre.

They are then jumping in a taxi the last part of the way home as they actually have a chance of getting one out in the suburbs. So, say a 41 to Whitehall and then taxi to DCU or 15 to Coolock then taxi to Edenmore.

Zebra3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118804266#Comment_118804266

My taxi home from the city centre would be about 65€. Must be some rounds you do be getting in.

So the solution is that I cut my night short to get the last train that leaves at the laughable time off 23:30?

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118807850#Comment_118807850

Yeah that's exactly what my mate does. He gets the 15 to around terenure, then grabs a taxi for ten quid to his house, rather than walk the 30 minutes.

bikeman1

To further extend my point, the few routes that are out there are taking a much higher hit with passengers from much wider areas. Putting even more strain on them.

The NTA can see the numbers, they need to introduce more 24 hour services, particularly on Friday and Saturday nights. They don’t need to fund for 7 nights a week, but pressure needs to be eased. It’s also not fair that the current postcode lottery of whether you have a €2.30 bus home (Santry) or €4.50 (Finglas).

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808623#Comment_118808623

IMO Nitelink routes could potentially be made operate in both directions (and pickup at all stops, not just dedicated "pickup" stops) on the nights they run, with the fare reduced to the normal 90 minute fare. That would go a long way to assisting with demand.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808623#Comment_118808623

Totally agree that more 24 hour routes are needed.

But the problem is resourcing them - neither bus company is awash with drivers right now, and there are large increases in orbital services coming this year to resource too.

I can't see the 24 hour routes happening any faster than the BusConnects phasing as they need to incrementally increase the headcount. There are only so many staff you can put through the training facilities at any time.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808830#Comment_118808830

Not sure if that would work from a resource perspective right now, as you'd probably need more buses and drivers to deliver it.

p_haugh

Yeah the resource issues would definitely need to be sorted out first before even considering something like that

dublinman1990

I think DB running the 24 hour bus spines & Nitelink is a really tricky prospect to have them running together. The night shift staff on the ground that work in the depot's who operate 2 nights a week to run services for the Nitelink now have to expand their capability to run the 24 hour spines on top of that original commitment.

In order to reduce that workload! We have seen that when BusConnects unveils a new 24 hour route in the DB network and when DB unveils one of their legacy routes to do same. A set of Nitelink routes in return get scrapped because the 24 hour route offers a more frequent service.

I would think that the Nitelink will have a much further reduced presence on the ground once more 24 hour bus routes get introduced in Dublin. I think Nitelink routes that operate in areas along the A, B & E spine will be scrapped to offer more 24 hour routes on the bus network in the future which wittles down the Nitelink presence even more.

Even though the way in how that those tasks gets managed does seem to be more tricky when it meets the eye. It doesn't appear to sound palatable to get rid of routes that operate in areas like Ballsbridge, Stillorgan, Blackrock and Dundrum like the 7N, 46N & 84N when these spines get to launch within their own phases of the project.

I would fear that places like Dundrum would be harmed for a little while when the E spine launches in mid 2023. The 46N originally runs along the N11 where the E Spine also get to run their new 24 hour routes. The 7N & 84N could possibly get harmed as well in the process within areas like Ringsend, Blackrock & Dún Laoghaire.

The loss of their presence in Blackrock & Dun Laoghaire would be under significant harm if the 7N & 84N lose their status to operate the service in Blackrock, Shankill & Bray. Blackrock is not getting some of the B spine routes launched until August 2024. The E spine that will run in Shankill & Bray comes in about a year before it.

Does anyone see where I coming from with this point of view. I live in Blackrock myself and the potential loss of routes could be a little bit damaging to establishing demand for Nitelink passengers who live in Blackrock and beyond that. People could be considering that they would paying for taxis to get home from the City Centre or they could use the E Spine to get home instead.

bikeman1

Dublinman1990, it seems that no area will lose their night service when a route goes to 24 hours. The 33N still operates along the majority of the 41 which is 24 hours. River Valley was then to lose its night service because the 41N ceased. But the 33N was diverted to cover the part of the 41N route that was no longer covered. So they are able to change the remaining Nitelinks to plug the gap.

Resourcing staff to operate these is a huge challenge for sure. But the demand is there and the benefits are there for everyone. Public transport is very much a social service now and not just a 9-5 commuter service anymore with remote working, environmental, high fuel costs etc.

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808444#Comment_118808444

Last time I was in town (pre-pandemic), a taxi home was around €70. There were four of us, so I think we all threw in €20 each. Less than a round of drinks in the average pub in town. There are loads of solutions that don't require a heavily subsidised public service vehicle. I'd be a big fan of state intervention, but not when it comes to getting me home after a night out. That's my own responsibility.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118812164#Comment_118812164

So by that logic we shouldn't run DARTs from Landsdowne Road after match days, special trains for GAA matches and in fact there shouldn't be buses from the airport either considering that most people are only going on holidays for pleasure reasons. I know I'm exaggerating a bit but it's a bit of a silly argument in my opinion.

I was in Berlin (which is considered to be a city with one of the best public transports networks in the world) a couple of years ago and most people would use the tram, bus or ubahn to go on a night out in fact it perfectly acceptable and normal to drink an open can/bottle of beer there on public transport.

It's not just about cost either I know some women who'd actually feel safer on a public bus/train than getting into a taxi with a strange man.

questionmark?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118812164#Comment_118812164

So you don't believe in public transport as its a person's own responsibility to get home whether that's from the pub(which supports jobs), a gig(which supports jobs) or from their job(imagine people working non 9-5 jobs wanting to get home!!)

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118812164#Comment_118812164

Night buses are about far more than just getting tipsy or drunk people home cheaply. They also support shift workers, late workers, people who are travelling alone for any reason and people who might not feel safe getting in a taxi at night.

Night buses are incredibly socially inclusive. They offer affordable public transport to a huge number of people who need it to go to work. They let them travel without the cost of owning a car and paying for parking. They are open to people who are unable to drive for any reason. They remove cars from the road during busier daytime hours (when they’re getting to work) making them safer for pedestrians and cyclists and less polluting for everyone. And most importantly, they do that for people who are statistically lower paid anyway so those benefits are more appreciated.

If you accept that night buses are a good thing for society, then can you accept that they will be busier on certain nights and those workers still need to get home so extra capacity should be provided? If you don’t, those shift/late workers and probably isn’t travelling in the same direction as their colleagues now has to pay for a very expensive taxi home alone.

Zebra3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118812164#Comment_118812164

Bully for you that your mates are heading back to the same location as you.

”I’m all right, Jack”.

StreetLight

This forum is something else. Some rightly extol the virtues of a properly-funded transport system but without a thought for the employees who will actually operate it. As has been pointed out continuously, most, if not all bus companies are struggling to get staff. Yet there are people on this very thread who delight in bashing transport workers and will indeed call for a reduction in their terms, conditions and wages.

You can't have it both ways. Make your minds up.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118812164#Comment_118812164

Are u winding ppl up or what?

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118816886#Comment_118816886

No, I'm being deadly serious. Where are all the extra bus drivers (and other necessary staff - there are shortages of maintenance staff too) going to come from? As things stand, staff turnover in all the major bus companies is shocking. I'm not sure what sort of pay and conditions would be required to keep people in the job, and whether the general public would be happy to provide the necessary subvention (be that through taxation or increased bus fares). I mean, there are a lot of people already out there who think Dublin Bus drivers are paid too much.