Pro14 final thread

razorblunt

Just watched the game having recorded it earlier. Leinster well worth it in fairness and it’s always nice to see Glasgow’s fans bubbles popped. The boos must have been music to the Leinster fans ears.
Ringrose was fantastic I felt a class above anyone else in the backlines of both sides.

Have to say I felt Owens was very poor, rucks again were an absolute mess, very second ruck Glasgow were taking men past the ruck out, when they weren’t doing that they were in at the side taking out the Leinster poachers legs. It wasn’t even subtle.

razorblunt

riddles wrote: »

We saw a Glasgow player drop his knee on Sexton’s head in the first half. Not even commented on. Luke McGrath taken out. Glasgow rolled away strategically and were a mess in the scrums in parts. Owens kept them in it. Rugby has a ways to go to stamp out that nastiness

I thought Lowe tackling Hoggs standing leg on a clearance kick was a bit dodgy too.

razorblunt

thelad95 wrote: »

This season they demanded that refs make a call on the field and then go to the TMO. Unfortunately I think this has made Owens a worse referee. He’s had some absolute shockers this year with important decisions in order to be “decisive” and nearly all of them are arguably incorrect. Today, the tackle off the ball by the Glasgow player should have been a blatant yellow but he just instantly dismissed the TMOs intervention.

Owens was never going to back down after openly being called out like that.

thebaz

razorblunt wrote: »

I thought Lowe tackling Hoggs standing leg on a clearance kick was a bit dodgy too.

he's a great player and all , but I wouldn't want to play against him, has an edge that probably pisses people off

Burkie1203

Class from JS

"And we wanted to make sure his last contribution wasn't Saracens. His last memory now will be lifting the trophy, there's not too many people who have lifted the trophy by themselves in Leinster. It's guys like Leo and Isa (Nacewa), they're the only two. The rest of the time we always do it in twos."

Buer

Can of Coke to whoever can name the trophy lifters for Leinster over the past decade.

I'll start you off... Leo and Whits in 2009.

sydthebeat

Buer wrote: »

Can of Coke to whoever can name the trophy lifters for Leinster over the past decade.

I'll start you off... Leo and Whits in 2009.

You mean who actually lifted the cups?.


Isa 2018 pro14

fitz

AbusesToilets wrote: »

That's kind of the problem tho, Rob was in the air too. Would it still have been a penalty if he clearly touched the ball? The rule needs to be revised.

He did clearly touch the ball.

sullivlo

I was at the game.

**** me. What a strange experience.

There was a 40 minute queue for the bar.

There's no public transport back to Glasgow after the game, so it was a 45 minute walk in the rain.

There were some absolute scummy behaviour from some of the Glasgow fans around where I was sitting. And the booing was just ridiculous.

But a win is a win.

Shefwedfan

sydthebeat wrote: »

You mean who actually lifted the cups?.


Isa 2018 pro14

Isa and Sexton in 2013 before they left? cant remember if they done the Amlin and then someone else done the Pro14?

Did Joe lift one of them?

Farawayhome

sullivlo wrote: »

I was at the game.

**** me. What a strange experience.

There was a 40 minute queue for the bar.

There's no public transport back to Glasgow after the game, so it was a 45 minute walk in the rain.

There were some absolute scummy behaviour from some of the Glasgow fans around where I was sitting. And the booing was just ridiculous.

But a win is a win.

You missed almost a half of the game?

AbusesToilets

fitz wrote: »

He did clearly touch the ball.

Didn't think he had. Any replays of it online?

sullivlo

Farawayhome wrote: »

You missed almost a half of the game?

God no. Someone beside me did though.

Farawayhome

sullivlo wrote: »

God no. Someone beside me did though.

Why would they do that? Miss half a match to get a pint. That's ridiculous.

Downlinz

thelad95 wrote: »

This season they demanded that refs make a call on the field and then go to the TMO. Unfortunately I think this has made Owens a worse referee. He’s had some absolute shockers this year with important decisions in order to be “decisive” and nearly all of them are arguably incorrect. Today, the tackle off the ball by the Glasgow player should have been a blatant yellow but he just instantly dismissed the TMOs intervention.

He was always the best referee because he was willing to take time out and review footage multiple times in order to arrive at a correct decision, it seems he's now being pressured to keep the game moving and his calls are suffering as a result. A real pity.

fitz

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Didn't think he had. Any replays of it online?

Actually, he was just shy of it, looking back.
But he clearly got off the ground. Agree with you, the rule needs to be looked at.

https://twitter.com/eirSport/status/1132392517637423104

Buer

Downlinz wrote:

He was always the best referee because he was willing to take time out and review footage multiple times in order to arrive at a correct decision, it seems he's now being pressured to keep the game moving and his calls are suffering as a result. A real pity.

That was never the case. He was the best because he was decisive and correct. If he went to the TMO, he did so as it was necessary and it generally supported his initial response.

Now he is decisive and often incorrect. He has generally failed to make decisions in keeping with the modern directives. There's a good reason he hasn't been involved in a HEC semi or final for a couple of seasons.

He used the TMO twice today. Once was forced upon him by the TMO and he refused to change his mind despite footage being clear of an off the ball hit in the back.

awec

I used to think the criticism of Owens was overblown, but his performance in the Munster quarter final was genuinely as bad a refereeing performance as I have ever seen. Worse than anything Clancy or Lacey have ever produced.

He wasn't that bad today, but definitely some dodgy calls.

Burkie1203

awec wrote: »

I used to think the criticism of Owens was overblown, but his performance in the Munster quarter final was genuinely as bad a refereeing performance as I have ever seen. Worse than anything Clancy or Lacey have ever produced.

He wasn't that bad today, but definitely some dodgy calls.

He seemed to lose sense about 18 months ago. There was an incident in the Leinster win in Thomond at Xmas 2017 where Conway tackled Lowe who was jumping for a high ball. Lowe didn't get upended or anything but he began using the phrase "rugby collision" that day and kept using it. Like Conway actually tackled Lowe around the legs.

I think the Law around this needs serious revision. Also think interference with the chaser needs to be looked at too. The first player to shove RK was the Glasgow sub 9 who also tried to body check RK just before he collided with Hogg.

Burkie1203

Seems quite a few Leinster fans missed flights home tonight. Mate just texted. About to take off and about 20-30 empty seats.

sullivlo

Farawayhome wrote: »

Why would they do that? Miss half a match to get a pint. That's ridiculous.

Lol. I love how you say pint.

They were decanting 330ml cans into pint glasses. It was a shambles.

They also refused to serve my 60 y.o. mother because she didn't have ID. Bizarre to say the least.

And the 40 min queues were from before the game even started.

sullivlo

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Seems quite a few Leinster fans missed flights home tonight. Mate just texted. About to take off and about 20-30 empty seats.

All the roads around the stadium were closed so I'm not surprised people couldn't get out to the airport.

troyzer

thebaz wrote: »

Buer wrote: »

There were multiple candidates for MOTM but I'm glad Ringrose appears to have regained a bit of form after a bit of an unsettled couple of weeks.

Ringrose had a great game, and Henshaw was good too, particularly defensivly, the pack too was strong.

Larmour seams to have lost his way this season, I was really hoping he would have pushed on , and be pushing Kearney for 15 . Its like that impulsive magic he had last season has either been found out by defenses or he has been constrained to fit the professional system.

Scotland game at the WC is going to be a lot tougher than we thought 6 months ago

Larmour needs to develop a passing game. He's not strong in contact and he has never developed an offloading or distribution game.

He has great footwork but that's it really with ball in hand and you're not going to step six or seven players at this level. Everyone knows he's going to try and step a tackle, not bust it or pass it on so they're not being sat down.

If he can become a link option with a good pass he'll be lethal.

Burkie1203

troyzer wrote: »

Larmour needs to develop a passing game. He's not strong in contact and he has never developed an offloading or distribution game.

He has great footwork but that's it really with ball in hand and you're not going to step six or seven players at this level. Everyone knows he's going to try and step a tackle, not bust it or pass it on so they're not being sat down.

If he can become a link option with a good pass he'll be lethal.

One thing he Larmour did really well was a few times he kicked the ball when near the touchline and turned Glasgow. They were chasing the game so make them do it from their own 22.

Healy was immense but Fardy Ruddock VDF and Conan were outstanding up front too. 25 tackles for both Ruddock and Fardy. Conan's carrying numbers are epic too.

Ringrose and Henshaw are so good together.

stephen_n

Buer wrote: »

Whilst the pack undoubtedly won the game, I think it was a back who had the defining moments of the game.

I think it was 15-10 when Glasgow were on the Leinster 22 and going through multiple phases when they tried to go wide. Ringrose shot up and nailed the recipient of the ball well behind the gain line.

Glasgow tried to reorganise and regain momentum but fumbled and Ringrose came through again to hack on, collect and take play into the Glasgow 22 where they conceded a yellow. I don't think Glasgow ever recovered.

There were multiple candidates for MOTM but I'm glad Ringrose appears to have regained a bit of form after a bit of an unsettled couple of weeks.

And at the same time took the wrong option in the end and probably butchered a try. Had he stood Hogg up and offloaded to Lowe, it would have almost certainly been a try. That was uncharacteristic of him.

troyzer

Burkie1203 wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Larmour needs to develop a passing game. He's not strong in contact and he has never developed an offloading or distribution game.

He has great footwork but that's it really with ball in hand and you're not going to step six or seven players at this level. Everyone knows he's going to try and step a tackle, not bust it or pass it on so they're not being sat down.

If he can become a link option with a good pass he'll be lethal.

One thing he Larmour did really well was a few times he kicked the ball when near the touchline and turned Glasgow. They were chasing the game so make them do it from their own 22.

Healy was immense but Fardy Ruddock VDF and Conan were outstanding up front too. 25 tackles for both Ruddock and Fardy. Conan's carrying numbers are epic too.

Ringrose and Henshaw are so good together.

Yeah, hard to pick out a weakness. Thought Sexton looked a little bit off. Cronin was a bit quiet as was Furlong but he got though his shift at the ruck.

I think Leinster would have seriously pulled away were it not for the weather.

Either way, Larmour needs to kick on now. It would be great to have a playmaker at full back going forward.

thebaz

troyzer wrote: »

Larmour needs to develop a passing game. He's not strong in contact and he has never developed an offloading or distribution game.

He has great footwork but that's it really with ball in hand and you're not going to step six or seven players at this level. Everyone knows he's going to try and step a tackle, not bust it or pass it on so they're not being sat down.

If he can become a link option with a good pass he'll be lethal.

he started out as a centre , but he was so good he could take anyone on and always make the break - I think he could be suffering from not really nailing down a position - i think full back is where he will settle - some people say he may be too small for todays game , but Earls , BOD and D'Arcy were not huge.

AbusesToilets

troyzer wrote: »

Yeah, hard to pick out a weakness. Thought Sexton looked a little bit off. Cronin was a bit quiet as was Furlong but he got though his shift at the ruck.

I think Leinster would have seriously pulled away were it not for the weather.

Either way, Larmour needs to kick on now. It would be great to have a playmaker at full back going forward.

He reminds a bit of Luke, in the way he looks to step defenders. Feel maybe that aspect of his game would be better suited to the centre. FB should be more looking to slice a defensive line open with speed and the angle of attack. Larmour gives up a lot of momentum when he gets stepping. Makes it easier for a defensive line to shut him down.

troyzer

thebaz wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Larmour needs to develop a passing game. He's not strong in contact and he has never developed an offloading or distribution game.

He has great footwork but that's it really with ball in hand and you're not going to step six or seven players at this level. Everyone knows he's going to try and step a tackle, not bust it or pass it on so they're not being sat down.

If he can become a link option with a good pass he'll be lethal.

he started out as a centre , but he was so good he could take anyone on and always make the break - I think he could be suffering from not really nailing down a position - i think full back is where he will settle - some people say he may be too small for todays game , but Earls , BOD and D'Arcy were not huge.

There's a bit of that but I do also think his passing game is lacking if he wants to be a fullback.

He just constantly carries, he never asks questions of the defense. I said this near the beginning of the season and I was crucified, he doesn't offer enough of a threat to pass. Defenders are comfortable committing to the tackle early.

Exclamation Marc

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Seems quite a few Leinster fans missed flights home tonight. Mate just texted. About to take off and about 20-30 empty seats.

We left on a a chartered bus at 9.15 for an 11pm flight and as we left there must have been about 2500+ people queueing to get into the train station. I'd never seen anything like it.

troyzer

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Seems quite a few Leinster fans missed flights home tonight. Mate just texted. About to take off and about 20-30 empty seats.

We left on a a chartered bus at 9.15 for an 11pm flight and as we left there must have been about 2500+ people queueing to get into the train station. I'd never seen anything like it.

I remember something similar after the Wasps game in Coventry. The Ricoh has one little streak of piss they call a train station with a two carriage train on the hour. 35,000 people predictably file out and it was a massacre. It's a good hour walk into the city centre from there.

degsie

Hopefully it will be a long time before Glasgow get to host another final.

Rigor Mortis

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

We left on a a chartered bus at 9.15 for an 11pm flight and as we left there must have been about 2500+ people queueing to get into the train station. I'd never seen anything like it.

Twickenham most matches is a disaster at the train

Bridge93

stephen_n wrote: »

And at the same time took the wrong option in the end and probably butchered a try. Had he stood Hogg up and offloaded to Lowe, it would have almost certainly been a try. That was uncharacteristic of him.

Lowe made a total mess of the support line. He initially shaped to go in on a switch then stopped and ran back the other way again. Unsteadied Ringrose and allowed Callum Gibbons I think it was close the gap to him

sydthebeat

Bridge93 wrote: »

Lowe made a total mess of the support line. He initially shaped to go in on a switch then stopped and ran back the other way again. Unsteadied Ringrose and allowed Callum Gibbons I think it was close the gap to him

Agreed

The support runner calls the play there.

Lowe had gotten ahead of his man and all he had to do was keep his line, and for RR to draw and pass

Instead he stepped in, and then back out again, learning to dance at lannigans ball.

In other news, very satisfying win. Lying here very contented hoping someone will get up and make me breakfast and a nice cuppa....
And if she's lucky she might get some of this satisfaction herself...

Farawayhome

You need to look back at the clip, the opportunity was there for Ringrose to offload it and set Lowe free, the man behind him was attempting to drag him back without the ball. Ringrose butchered it. Lucky it wasn't costly.

crisco10

Farawayhome wrote: »

You need to look back at the clip, the opportunity was there for Ringrose to offload it and set Lowe free, the man behind him was attempting to drag him back without the ball. Ringrose butchered it. Lucky it wasn't costly.

On my watching lowe gets tackled (evidenced by him dragged before the pass being given) as soon as he catches that pass tho. What is easy to underestimate is Hoggs pace...neither ringrose or lowe would have been able to simply burn him. They'd have needed him to bite in and commit which he was resolutely not doing. Which is great defence by Hogg.

The worst thing to have done would have been to force it cough up possession.

baas baa

To say that Ringrose butchered the opportunity is a bit excessive but I thought he should've done better. He had Hogg turned and was essentially a sitting duck. With Ringrose's footwork he should've been away or at least committed Hogg to the tackle and offloaded to Lowe who was running a trailing line. I've no doubt had it been Ringrose trailing Lowe it would've been a score.

uptherebels

Farawayhome wrote: »

Of course it was silly. You can't touch a player in the air these days. Kearney should know better.

It's not about touching the player in the air. Two players can compete for the ball in the air and make contact with each other no problem. The issue is when one player arrives to the contest area late, through either kicking the ball too far ahead or being impeded in his run, and trying to contest anyway. So they jump late or don't jump at all. This is what usually leads to the guy higher in the air being flipped onto his back/head as they make contact with the jumping players legs.

The Lost Sheep

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Re: the Kearney YC, they really need to sort out the way it's interpreted.

A player can be honest in his intent to contest for the ball and lose; in the process contacting with the opposition player causing one of them to land awkwardly.

If Hogg had gone up and smashed a hip into Kearney's head whilst winning the ball, with both players competing, would that warrant a penalty? Potential for serious injury to him, probably HIA. Why is that acceptable, but what happened a penalty? Not arguing against Kearney getting a YC mind, but the overall disparity with interpreting the situation currently.

The rule as it stands now basically allows one player to be as reckless as they want, as long as they win the ball. The contest in certain respect is less about the ball, and more about getting into the dominant position/ higher in the air, at least with respect to possible penalities.

better suited to laws.... thread but the laws dont at all allow anyone be reckless and if you want change what really is acceptable then?
Yes you can be honest in your intentions and still cause a player to fall and get hurt/fall awkwardly etc and get red. Thats all part of the game.

thelad95 wrote: »

This season they demanded that refs make a call on the field and then go to the TMO. Unfortunately I think this has made Owens a worse referee. He’s had some absolute shockers this year with important decisions in order to be “decisive” and nearly all of them are arguably incorrect. Today, the tackle off the ball by the Glasgow player should have been a blatant yellow but he just instantly dismissed the TMOs intervention.

I see refs having to make a call on the pitch is far better as they should be able to say what they think a decision is. If they were doing a game without a TMO they would have to make a decision and the TMO is there to assist them make a decision not make it for them.

sullivlo wrote: »

I was at the game.

**** me. What a strange experience.

There was a 40 minute queue for the bar.

There's no public transport back to Glasgow after the game, so it was a 45 minute walk in the rain.

There were some absolute scummy behaviour from some of the Glasgow fans around where I was sitting. And the booing was just ridiculous.

But a win is a win.

There is long queues at nearly any event/match. Why are people still surprised about this. Many who do those roles are young students/not expereinced... and people really need to get over the booing as its not as if behaviour is so exemplary here at all games.

thebaz wrote: »

I support leinster and that game was not brilliant, average at best, expecting more for a final at Celtic park - think professional rugby really needs a look at itself, crowds worldwide are voting with ther feet - hopefully the WC raises the standard and not so predictable, defensive driven /possession rugby with little room for guile of old.

Care to show how crowds are voting with their feet when it was a record attendance for a final?
What exactly do you want the sport to change to?

OldRio

No one minds queueing but 45 minutes, and then poor public transport system is not good enough in this day and age.

degsie

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

There is long queues at nearly any event/match. Why are people still surprised about this. Many who do those roles are young students/not expereinced... and people really need to get over the booing as its not as if behaviour is so exemplary here at all games.

Obviously you weren't there mate. ****ty weather, ****ty transport and yes some ****ty fans.

The Lost Sheep

degsie wrote: »

Obviously you weren't there mate. ****ty weather, ****ty transport and yes some ****ty fans.

yeah i wasnt so what?
****ty fans includes yourself by sounds of things. events can always have major issues. easily will happen. just get on with it. cant do much
And complaining about the weather.... ffs your irish arent you used to terrible weather yet?

Shefwedfan

degsie wrote: »

Obviously you weren't there mate. ****ty weather, ****ty transport and yes some ****ty fans.

Make the best of a bad occasion

razorblunt

awec wrote: »

I used to think the criticism of Owens was overblown, but his performance in the Munster quarter final was genuinely as bad a refereeing performance as I have ever seen. Worse than anything Clancy or Lacey have ever produced.

He wasn't that bad today, but definitely some dodgy calls.

He just blatantly ignores so much, Leinster players were shouting when taken out past the ruck and he had no interest.
He was seething when the TMO directed back to the Brown incident and called him out on it.

AbusesToilets

razorblunt wrote: »

He just blatantly ignores so much, Leinster players were shouting when taken out past the ruck and he had no interest.
He was seething when the TMO directed back to the Brown incident and called him out on it.

Seems like he's let the idea allowing games to flow influence his decision making now. His breakdowns are taking the piss at this stage. No semblance of adhering to the laws, until it's the last couple of minutes and one team is chasing them game.

razorblunt

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Seems like he's let the idea allowing games to flow influence his decision making now. His breakdowns are taking the piss at this stage. No semblance of adhering to the laws, until it's the last couple of minutes and one team is chasing them game.

Yep. He’ll add the drama in the last 5 if he can.

sullivlo

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

yeah i wasnt so what?
****ty fans includes yourself by sounds of things. events can always have major issues. easily will happen. just get on with it. cant do much
And complaining about the weather.... ffs your irish arent you used to terrible weather yet?

I’ve travelled for rugby before and never experienced anything like yesterday.

Glasgow was not equipped to deal with two big games. The Scottish cup final was on yesterday too, so there were lots of infrastructure issues with transport, pubs, general pedestrian traffic...

Lots of the Glasgow fans around me were vicious, and I didn’t feel safe at times. I was called a “fat ****” for celebrating when Leinster scored. And not in a jovial way. The booing was unpleasant, but not unexpected.

I wasn’t complaining about the weather, I was just saying that it was a 45 minute walk in the rain. I had a coat. There was no public transport anywhere near the stadium. Taxis couldn’t get to within what appeared to be a 2 mile radius. People had no choice but to walk.

I think the pro14 should consider whether parkhead is a viable solution going forward. The corridors were narrow and not equipped to deal with the inevitable queues at the bars. Lots of the queuing was related to staff requesting ID for people who were clearly over 25. The bar near me ran out of cups at one stage.

Farawayhome

sullivlo wrote: »

I’ve travelled for rugby before and never experienced anything like yesterday.

Glasgow was not equipped to deal with two big games. The Scottish cup final was on yesterday too, so there were lots of infrastructure issues with transport, pubs, general pedestrian traffic...

Lots of the Glasgow fans around me were vicious, and I didn’t feel safe at times. I was called a “fat ****” for celebrating when Leinster scored. And not in a jovial way. The booing was unpleasant, but not unexpected.

I wasn’t complaining about the weather, I was just saying that it was a 45 minute walk in the rain. I had a coat. There was no public transport anywhere near the stadium. Taxis couldn’t get to within what appeared to be a 2 mile radius. People had no choice but to walk.

I think the pro14 should consider whether parkhead is a viable solution going forward. The corridors were narrow and not equipped to deal with the inevitable queues at the bars. Lots of the queuing was related to staff requesting ID for people who were clearly over 25. The bar near me ran out of cups at one stage.

We seen Leo's comments but the truth is that there is a huge sectarian problem in Scotland and the majority of it is anti Irish. I don't know if you heard any of it but there were many anti Irish comments shouted at Leinster fans I've heard from yesterday. I don't think people realise how bad it is there. This game was in Parkhead but the Celtic fans were elsewhere!

sullivlo

Farawayhome wrote: »

We seen Leo's comments but the truth is that there is a huge sectarian problem in Scotland and the majority of it is anti Irish. I don't know if you heard any of it but there were many anti Irish comments shouted at Leinster fans I've heard from yesterday. I don't think people realise how bad it is there. This game was in Parkhead but the Celtic fans were elsewhere!

Yup. Heard some of it. Like I said, hadn't felt unsafe at a rugby game before.

The booing was scratching the surface of some of it.