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Catholic Ireland dead? **Mod Warning in Post #563**

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    #92
    iguana
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,909 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    But overall they'll do what they enjoy.

    I don't think so. I have a 6 year old and the amount of complaining I'm hearing from friends with kids a couple of years older is unreal. The expense of the communion party, the stress and feeling of obligation of it. The stress of knowing if your child will have enough guests as their school friends are all at their own parties and if you don't have a big family or another family gathering is happening that day, you could have spent a fortune on a party for a handful of people. The stress of dealing with an 8 year old with maybe €1000 burning a hole in his/her piggy bank. And even the stress coming from a desire, themselves, to lose weight ahead of the big day.

    Very, very few of the mothers I talk to would actively choose to do communion if it weren't for the feeling of obligation. (I know a few actively religious families who would choose it and they tend to keep their celebrations more low key.) The others constantly describe it as a huge pain in the ass that they could do with out. I've actually been shocked by the level of absolute antipathy about this ritual I'm experiencing. I thought people enjoyed the big party aspect but most don't seem to at all. It's mainly a feeling of obligation and an unwillingness to make their child be the odd one out. A surprising amount of people wouldn't be sorry at all to see the whole thing just quietly disappear, they just don't want to be at the ones to make the change as that too is a massive hassle.


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    #93
    Cee-Jay-Cee
    Registered Users Posts: 12,235 ✭✭✭✭Cee-Jay-Cee


    Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »
    Right so let's create a vacuum for some other new found crap. Never being very religious but ya know what. Better the devil ya know. Ha I made a funny.

    Emmm....no you didn’t.


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    #94
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,292 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    They’re not in anyone’s pockets seeing as Boards of Management in Catholic schools are entirely voluntary? :confused:

    My eyes couldn't roll hard enough...


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    #95
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,681 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    lawred2 wrote: »
    My eyes couldn't roll hard enough...


    They may roll as hard as they like, it still wouldn’t make your statement any more true than it wasn’t already. They would be in the pockets of the Minister for Education if the State had to fund salaries for their positions. Instead, they are members of the community who manage the schools on a voluntary basis, ie - unpaid voluntary work in nobody’s pockets, acting in the best interests of the schools community.


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    #96
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,292 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    They may roll as hard as they like, it still wouldn’t make your statement any more true than it wasn’t already. They would be in the pockets of the Minister for Education if the State had to fund salaries for their positions. Instead, they are members of the community who manage the schools on a voluntary basis, ie - unpaid voluntary work in nobody’s pockets, acting in the best interests of the schools community.

    Give me a break. The act of volunteering means nothing for the motivations for volunteering.

    I've seen the product of these voluntary efforts first hand in North county Dublin where letters were handed to kids to take home to their parents re divestment. Those lies were a long way from the best interests of any community.

    The act of volunteering doesn't render someone pure. Nor is monetary gain required to be doing the bidding of others.


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    #97
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    yasmina wrote: »
    Agree.

    I'm 'home' nearly a year after being away for 20.
    We're in rural Ireland and my kids have gone into a small local primary. They are the only kids in the school of 100 who don't "do religion", or in other words, the only non-catholics. The whole communion/confirmation thing is HUGE. I totally underestimated it. Now I don't think that these families are going to mass regularly outside of this, but I don't really know because I don't be going :)

    On a side note, I have found that in rural Ireland if you don't go to mass or play GAA then you are not really part of the community. Everything revolves around this.


    If you move to any other country in the World you would normally joint local gathering and try the locl sport to integrate into the community? I would guess you done this when away for those 20 years?


    Ireland is no different, depending on the part of the country it could be rugby/soccer/gaelic football or hurling.....


    I have moved from "da city" to a small village outside the main city. So we are outsiders. At the moment my kids are doing swimming/GAA/jiu jitsu which is all done in local community and they are making friends....tidy towns is on and always looking for volunteers ect....loads of ways to integrate into the community.....I have yet to get any question about religion or anything like that......


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    #98
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    If you move to any other country in the World you would normally joint local gathering and try the locl sport to integrate into the community? I would guess you done this when away for those 20 years?


    Ireland is no different, depending on the part of the country it could be rugby/soccer/gaelic football or hurling.....


    I have moved from "da city" to a small village outside the main city. So we are outsiders. At the moment my kids are doing swimming/GAA/jiu jitsu which is all done in local community and they are making friends....tidy towns is on and always looking for volunteers ect....loads of ways to integrate into the community.....I have yet to get any question about religion or anything like that......
    Correct. As a new comer to a community there probably is an onus on you to make the effort to intergrate. Definetely when the kids get involved in activities it is easier to get to know the locals


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    #99
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    Plenty Catholics voted yes as well , for many Catholics a lot of the instructions go over their heads and these days many choose what suits them.

    Most Irish RCs are actually Protestants when you sit down and look at their beliefs.
    LuasSimon wrote: »
    Been part of a community and saying a few prayers brings peace of mind to many however misguided it may be . I’d be a lot more concerned about local drug dealers and burgulars than those who say a few prayers together every Saturday or Sunday.

    Yep. If those few prayers gives then a bit of relief from the stresses of daily life, what harm is that. I can think of plenty of other releases that people engage in that cause far more damage to the individual and the community.


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    #100
    FFred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 772 ✭✭✭FFred


    If we forget the Tuam babies stuff, the altar boy rapes etc.. Then that's still better than beheadings and stonings.. Right?


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    #101
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,499 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Can you imagine anyone that disagreed with divorce would vote to make it easier?


    A person can quite logically vote for a public measure without approving the morality of it.

    I might vote for legalising drugs, on the basis that some people will do this anyway, while not in any way thinking it right to use drugs.


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    #102
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    FFred wrote: »
    If we forget the Tuam babies stuff, the altar boy rapes etc.. Then that's still better than beheadings and stonings.. Right?

    Do we blame all German people still for what happened in WW2?


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    #103
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Shefwedfan wrote:
    Do we blame all German people still for what happened in WW2?


    Nah just the ones that would still support the Nazis, same as it's fair to blame supporters of the church eventhough the actions/ behaviour is common knowledge of what went on.


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    #104
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Nah just the ones that would still support the Nazis, same as it's fair to blame supporters of the church eventhough the actions/ behaviour is common knowledge of what went on.

    That really doesn’t make much sense does it?


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    #105
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Shefwedfan wrote:
    That really doesn’t make much sense does it?


    Makes sense to me, personally anyone still willing to claim to be a practicing Catholic knowingly supports an organisation that engaged in the abuse ,rape and murder of children.


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    #106
    yasmina
    Registered Users Posts: 46 ✭yasmina


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    If you move to any other country in the World you would normally joint local gathering and try the locl sport to integrate into the community? I would guess you done this when away for those 20 years?


    Ireland is no different, depending on the part of the country it could be rugby/soccer/gaelic football or hurling.....


    I have moved from "da city" to a small village outside the main city. So we are outsiders. At the moment my kids are doing swimming/GAA/jiu jitsu which is all done in local community and they are making friends....tidy towns is on and always looking for volunteers ect....loads of ways to integrate into the community.....I have yet to get any question about religion or anything like that......

    Yeah genuinely I absolutely love to throw myself in. I was actively involved in all the Irish communities when I lived away, as were the kids.

    But my kids are older national school and unfortunately (for me) not too keen on sport. They did a small bit of GAA abroad but they would be no where near standard here.

    My point was that in terms of the parish, I feel that the main social connection to see people, to chat and connect, is at the side of the pitch for GAA training or matches on the weekend. And try as I might my lads aren't keen to play with the local team. There isn't much going on here other than that to be honest. We join in on anything else that's going on but tbh we're in a part of the country where it's GAA and little else.

    TBH, nobody questions the religion thing with me either, but the kids feel it in school simply because they are the only ones not doing it so they stand out. Socially though, going to mass on a Sunday/Saturday night is another way that people connect. This doesn't bother me as I have 'connections' that go to mass 😄 so I don't feel like i miss to much!

    We're only home a year so it's still a settling period for us. I'm not complaining. I'm delighted to be home.


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    #107
    SpodoKamodo
    Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭SpodoKamodo


    lbc2019 wrote: »
    With that resounding 87% Yes in the exit poll for the divorce referendum surely that signifies the final nail in Catholic Ireland's coffin?


    I for one am delighted.

    No, had to hit 5 different shops today to get a communion card. Sold out everywhere


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    #108
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    SpodoKamodo wrote: »
    No, had to hit 5 different shops today to get a communion card. Sold out everywhere

    Ditto with Christmas cards. Next you'll be telling us that's a Christian tradition. ;)


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    #109
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Makes sense to me, personally anyone still willing to claim to be a practicing Catholic knowingly supports an organisation that engaged in the abuse ,rape and murder of children.

    You an atheist?


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    #110
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,623 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I had the same problem to Mother's day, all over the place trying to get a card.


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    #111
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,434 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    In my experience the majority of christians in Ireland have beliefs that are more closely aligned to protestantism than catholicism.

    Divorce, gay marriage, abortion, all completely incompatible with catholicism, all enjoying overwhelming support from the people of Ireland, and I am sure there are many practicising "catholics" who voted for all three.


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    #112
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    awec wrote: »
    In my experience the majority of christians in Ireland have beliefs that are more closely aligned to protestantism than catholicism.

    Divorce, gay marriage, abortion, all completely incompatible with catholicism, all enjoying overwhelming support from the people of Ireland, and I am sure there are many practicising "catholics" who voted for all three.

    Yeah but catholic don’t have to march around in stupid orange out fits and silly hats :-)


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    #113
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I had the same problem to Mother's day, all over the place trying to get a card.

    Does that not make his/her point ? Mother's Day is a big, big, thing to the point of making cards for it go like hot cakes. If Communion cards are the same then it wouldn't be incorrect to suggest that religious event is also a big thing.


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    #114
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,808 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Yeah but catholic don’t have to march around in stupid orange out fits and silly hats :-)

    The AOH march around in stupid green outfits and equally silly hats.


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    #115
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    The AOH march around in stupid green outfits and equally silly hats.

    But sure that’s great crack :-)


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    #116
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,623 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Mrsmum wrote:
    Does that not make his/her point ? Mother's Day is a big, big, thing to the point of making cards for it go like hot cakes. If Communion cards are the same then it wouldn't be incorrect to suggest that religious event is also a big thing.
    All of those things are as big as you are willing to make them.
    Trying to keep up with the Joneses is not the way to go imo.


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    #117
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    eagle eye wrote: »
    All of those things are as big as you are willing to make them.
    Trying to keep up with the Joneses is not the way to go imo.

    I agree with you on that but that's really a different point.


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    #118
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    I wouldn't use the popularity of FHC as an indication of the success/decline of Catholicism. The church beside me was so packed on communion day they needed to use a nearby field for parking. The same church is empty the rest of the year. Hardly an endorsement of catholic values.


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    #119
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    eviltwin wrote: »
    I wouldn't use the popularity of FHC as an indication of the success/decline of Catholicism. The church beside me was so packed on communion day they needed to use a nearby field for parking. The same church is empty the rest of the year. Hardly an endorsement of catholic values.

    Which brings me back to what I said before. Catholics are doing what they enjoy doing and have no notion of giving up those parts. People saying they aren't Catholics unless the follow every last rule is something that bothers only those saying that. The Church welcomes them with open arms whenever they want to turn up. They might go to mass if it suits this week and not for next two months. It's all about picking and choosing these day.


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    #120
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    The Church welcomes them with open arms whenever they want to turn up.


    The priest was pretty sarcastic about the size of the crowd at the last event I was at, a confirmation. Probably feels it in the collections for the parish on an empty Sunday.


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    #121
    Oasis1974
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,077 ✭✭✭Oasis1974


    They still do the whole food giving thing in mass towards the end or is that gone?


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