The Falcon And The Winter Soldier - Miniseries - Disney + (***Spoilers***)

tbahh

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Comapring a 22 year old Erin Kellyman who's only done 27 episodes of television shows, and a single film, with another in post production, and has only been acting since 2015 to the likes of Elizabeth Olsen or Tom Hiddlestone's respective portrayals as Wanda & Loki respectively, who are both older and have been acting longer than she has.

It's a bit of a **** comparison to be honest.

Her age is irrelevant. Elizabeth Olsen was very good in Martha Marcy Mae Marlene and she was only around 20/21 at the time.

It's probably not even the actress' fault. Crappy writing and poor/no direction for her character have shaped her into a one-dimensional villain-type character who will no doubt be "redeemed" by the show's conclusion, and then never to be referred to again.

antix80

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Comapring a 22 year old Erin Kellyman
Snip

It's a bit of a **** comparison to be honest.

I didn't know she was 22 and it hardly matters. They could have gone anywhere with that character and casting.

Lithium93_

tbahh wrote: »

Her age is irrelevant. Elizabeth Olsen was very good in Martha Marcy Mae Marlene and she was only around 20/21 at the time.

It's probably not even the actress' fault. Crappy writing and poor/no direction for her character have shaped her into a one-dimensional villain-type character who will no doubt be "redeemed" by the show's conclusion, and then never to be referred to again.

Is it, I mean Olsen had the luxury of growing up in an era where the internet was only a fleeting idea, not the monster it's become nowadays, basically she had time to find her feet. Whereas Kellyman has started out in an era where every Tom, Dick or Harry with an internet connection, smartphone and a twitter account is quick to either criticize or praise. Especially in an already established franchise like the MCU.

Obviously The Falcon & The Winter Soldier won't be her breakout role.

Granted she's been in Solo: A Star Wars story, but less said about that hot mess, the better.

tbahh

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Is it, I mean Olsen had the luxury of growing up in an era where the internet was only a fleeting idea, not the monster it's become nowadays, basically she had time to find her feet. Whereas Kellyman has started out in an era where every Tom, Dick or Harry with an internet connection, smartphone and a twitter account is quick to either criticize or praise. Especially in an already established franchise like the MCU.

Granted she's been in Solo: A Star Wars story, but less said about that hot mess, the better.

The internet a fleeting idea? In 2011? Have you gone mad? These boards have been around for over twenty years; I doubt they have only been crticising or praising in the past ten years. And I'm not being critical about the actress per se. Was she poor casting? Probably but she has one episode left and that could change everything. I was putting the blame on the character's lack of direction and poor writing/storylines. Are you related to Kellyman by any chance? :pac:

antix80

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Granted she's been in Solo: A Star Wars story, but less said about that hot mess, the better.

Oh was she in it?

I barely remember that film. It wasn't awful but it was forgettable.

"Kellyman appears as Enfys Nest, leader of the rebel Cloud Riders, in Solo: A Star Wars Story"

What was Marvel's casting call, "young ginger actress required. Must have experience leading a small team of daftly named rebels in Disney property"?

Lithium93_

tbahh wrote: »

The internet a fleeting idea? In 2011? Have you gone mad? These boards have been around for over twenty years; I doubt they have only been crticising or praising in the past ten years. And I'm not being critical about the actress per se. Was she poor casting? Probably but she has one episode left and that could change everything. I was putting the blame on the character's lack of direction and poor writing/storylines. Are you related to Kellyman by any chance? :pac:

My bad, I got my years mixed up with something else :pac:

I wouldn't say poor casting, stunted writing most definitely. Malcolm Spellman could've fleshed out the character better.

Mitch Connor

The Phantom Pain wrote: »

You're probably right but I would prefer it the other way round as I think the other way is rather predictable. Karli, as Zemo said, is "radicalised beyond salvation". She just has too much red in her ledger and shows no remorse. For her to get the redemption arc in one episode would feel forced when she has been so unwavering whereas Walker has been shown to be conflicted and not too far on the brink that he can't be pulled back just in time.

It was a really powerful line when he told the government (and I'm paraphrasing) "you made me. I did everything you asked."

Imo karli is going to make a choice of becoming like walker or like Sam. They've been teeing it up.

expectationlost

what was happening re the people in the park?

Midnight_EG

expectationlost wrote: »

what was happening re the people in the park?

They're the followers of The Flag Smashers just like the first episode, they create a scene

martingriff

Walker will come at best an anti hero. Kari will not get a full redemption arc but it will be the start and show up in another tv show or 1 of the movies

shawki

expectationlost wrote: »

what was happening re the people in the park?

One of the people at the park was security at the GRC meeting.

Mitch Connor

martingriff wrote: »

Walker will come at best an anti hero. Kari will not get a full redemption arc but it will be the start and show up in another tv show or 1 of the movies

Can't see her being in a movie, reckon this will be the last we see of her.

FunLover18

From reading the threads on both this and Wandavision, I think there's a really interesting social study to be done on how people view redemption and how that is affected by their opinions towards the person seeking redemption. That's not a dig at anyone hear both shows and both threads have made me question my own views on the issue as well. I kind of want Marvel to pull a switcheroo on Loki so that he wasn't redeemed at all but just playing everyone for fools knowing how everyone loves a redemption arc.

antix80

martingriff wrote: »

Walker will come at best an anti hero. Kari will not get a full redemption arc but it will be the start and show up in another tv show or 1 of the movies

Nah, she's gone. Adios. She'll be dead by the end of the episode.

tbahh

FunLover18 wrote: »

From reading the threads on both this and Wandavision, I think there's a really interesting social study to be done on how people view redemption and how that is affected by their opinions towards the person seeking redemption. That's not a dig at anyone hear both shows and both threads have made me question my own views on the issue as well. I kind of want Marvel to pull a switcheroo on Loki so that he wasn't redeemed at all but just playing everyone for fools knowing how everyone loves a redemption arc.

The Loki featured in the new show is the one from the end of the first Avengers movie so you may have gotten your wish on him still being evil.

martingriff

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Can't see her being in a movie, reckon this will be the last we see of her.

antix80 wrote: »

Nah, she's gone. Adios. She'll be dead by the end of the episode.

Dead no unless its a sacrifice type of thing. May see her again I say

Agent Coulson

She is young so I could see her return in the Young Avengers when that gets up and going.

flazio

FunLover18 wrote: »

From reading the threads on both this and Wandavision, I think there's a really interesting social study to be done on how people view redemption and how that is affected by their opinions towards the person seeking redemption. That's not a dig at anyone hear both shows and both threads have made me question my own views on the issue as well. I kind of want Marvel to pull a switcheroo on Loki so that he wasn't redeemed at all but just playing everyone for fools knowing how everyone loves a redemption arc.

As far as I'm aware, they can't do anything too game changing in any TV series otherwise there would be a backlash from anyone just following the movies. Take age of Ultron, plenty of pre movie set up like calling in the Avengers to Sokovia and getting the Heli carrier ready for Fury was set up in Agents of SHIELD but you didn't exactly see Coulson standing beside Fury or Agent May at the controls when the carrier showed up in the movie. Too many movie watchers would have been like "huh? He died in the last movie didn't he?"

Lithium93_

flazio wrote: »

As far as I'm aware, they can't do anything too game changing in any TV series otherwise there would be a backlash from anyone just following the movies. Take age of Ultron, plenty of pre movie set up like calling in the Avengers to Sokovia and getting the Heli carrier ready for Fury was set up in Agents of SHIELD but you didn't exactly see Coulson standing beside Fury or Agent May at the controls when the carrier showed up in the movie. Too many movie watchers would have been like "huh? He died in the last movie didn't he?"

Even before Agents Of Shield/Avengers Age Of Ultron, there was pre movie set up done with TV.

Go back to 2014. The HYDRA reveal being set up in and over the course of Agents Of Shield's first season, dovetailing nicely into Captain America: The Winter Soldier and it's aftermath.

flazio

Yes, but there wasn't anything in Winter Solider or any subsequent Marvel movie that didn't make sense to anyone who hadn't seen Agents of SHIELD. The movies fed the plot to the TV series not the other way around. Fans of those series can chose to believe that the Agents, the Defenders, The Runaways, Cloak & Dagger and even The InHumans came through Doctor Stranges portals in Endgame if they want to. But the closest any of those shows got to acknowledgement was when James D'Arcy cameod as Mr. Edwin Jarvis in Endgame. Likewise anything that happens in these Disney+ shows will be throwaway and not impact the plots of future movies significantly.

pjohnson

flazio wrote: »

Yes, but there wasn't anything in Winter Solider or any subsequent Marvel movie that didn't make sense to anyone who hadn't seen Agents of SHIELD. The movies fed the plot to the TV series not the other way around. Fans of those series can chose to believe that the Agents, the Defenders, The Runaways, Cloak & Dagger and even The InHumans came through Doctor Stranges portals in Endgame if they want to. But the closest any of those shows got to acknowledgement was when James D'Arcy cameod as Mr. Edwin Jarvis in Endgame. Likewise anything that happens in these Disney+ shows will be throwaway and not impact the plots of future movies significantly.

The films often appear unaware of the goings on in the TV section. Theres been 3 separate Darkholds in 3 shows :pac:

The movies are connected well across all properties but the TV continuity is non existant.

beakerjoe

pjohnson wrote: »

The films often appear unaware of the goings on in the TV section. Theres been 3 separate Darkholds in 3 shows :pac:

The movies are connected well across all properties but the TV continuity is non existant.

The continuity surely will be kept here in the last 2 series compaired to others.

pixelburp

The films informed the SHIELD TV show, but never ever the other way around. The predominance of which was the first season, with the HYDRA plot being the biggest, but also seen with Lady Sif dropping by; but even that small inflection dried up as the MCU really ramped up: to the point where Infinity War's footprint on the TV show was - and I mean this exactly - a single line of dialogue when a character says in passing "Thanos is attacking earth". The biggest event in the entire MCU was an aside on the TV show. SHIELD and its cast got royally shafted in the grand scheme of things. Maybe the presence of Coulson, alive and well, made it too difficult for even a small cameo.

Lithium93_

beakerjoe wrote: »

The continuity surely will be kept here in the last 2 series compaired to others.

With Kevin Feige overseeing everything, you can be absolutely certain.

Penn

There's no comparing the likes of Agents of Shield etc and their connection to the films, and the new Disney+ shows like TFATWS and WandaVision. The new Disney+ shows are specifically designed to be integral to the MCU as a whole. WandaVision will have strong ties to the next Dr.Strange and Cap.Marvel. TFATWS, it's unknown what it might lead to. But we're also getting a Secret Invasion Disney show which might also tie in to Cap.Marvel 2, a show based in Wakanda which will tie in to Black Panther 2. Probably more as time goes on.

Agents of Shield could reference the movies and act as a bit of an ad for them, but never the other way around and never in any significant way. But they were never an essential part of the overall MCU story.

Lithium93_

I think if I recall correctly, either the show was airing as the movies were deep into production, or close to release and that's why the films were only referenced in passing.

Foxtrol

Penn wrote: »

There's no comparing the likes of Agents of Shield etc and their connection to the films, and the new Disney+ shows like TFATWS and WandaVision. The new Disney+ shows are specifically designed to be integral to the MCU as a whole. WandaVision will have strong ties to the next Dr.Strange and Cap.Marvel. TFATWS, it's unknown what it might lead to. But we're also getting a Secret Invasion Disney show which might also tie in to Cap.Marvel 2, a show based in Wakanda which will tie in to Black Panther 2. Probably more as time goes on.

Agents of Shield could reference the movies and act as a bit of an ad for them, but never the other way around and never in any significant way. But they were never an essential part of the overall MCU story.

Wandavision has already shown this to be true - the impact of it is far beyond any of the TV shows, arguably as much or more than many MCU movies - aside from key character development they have introduced characters and groups that will nearly definitely play into later movies.

pjohnson

beakerjoe wrote: »

The continuity surely will be kept here in the last 2 series compaired to others.

Probably but not going to completly lockstep. Marvel Movies is the big money maker and they wont want to leave the movie goers with plot hole questions since they hid something key in a tv show.

Will certainly supplement the movies very nicely if you do watch them.