The Falcon And The Winter Soldier - Miniseries - Disney + (***Spoilers***)

Foxtrol

pjohnson wrote: »

Probably but not going to completly lockstep. Marvel Movies is the big money maker and they wont want to leave the movie goers with plot hole questions since they hid something key in a tv show.

Will certainly supplement the movies very nicely if you do watch them.

What do you call a plot hole though? Marvel have shown over and over that they can give movie goers enough information to fill 'plot holes' for those who skipped a movie and they can do the exact same for the shows.

Prior to Endgame many would say a person would be mad to claim that Marvel would base the culmination of their first 3 phases, and their biggest movie ever, on plot elements from the Ant-man movies, where movie goers mightn't be aware of what happened given that they were the MCUs 18th and 21st movies at box office.

RobbingBandit

You could say the same about Captain Marvel and Black Panther elements in the storyline now and the universe development hinging on Wakanda and its technologies rather than Stark Tech or Asgardian influences. The MCU is adapting and incorporating new characters to branch out but as seen with WandaVision it still has a huge array of myths and tech to be pulled out when needed.

Mr. CooL ICE

You'd wonder how the flagsmashers get anything done when they appear to spend half the time sitting around drinking coffee

Mitch Connor

ended close to where I thought it would.

Sam as Cap, was the obvious direction and finish.
Walker as US Agent another obvious one - but he had a kind of redemption in the episode. Obviously 'Val' and her org will be bad - but I don't think that is the direction Walker wants to go. I do think he wants to be a good person, and do good. Will see if he is able to.
Carter as Power Broker another obvious one. Reckon we will only see that play out in the TV series, don't think it will impact big screen much.

Was very unsubtle in hammering home its points at the end. "No, thats Captain America!".

EoinMcLovin

Found it to be great finale and the new suit looks great. There is also a mid credit scene.

shawki

End Credit & Future Marvel Show Speculation

Sharon has to be a Skrull right? Her personality change is too drastic.
Could she be there to identify which Supers that could be replaced or collecting powers for skrulls

EoinMcLovin

shawki wrote: »

End Credit & Future Marvel Show Speculation

Sharon has to be a Skrull right? Her personality change is too drastic.
Could she be there to identify which Supers that could be replaced or collecting powers for skrulls

Well in fairness, she was abandoned by her country so the personality change is reasonable. It could be that she will be responsible for selling Iron Man suits which would lead into the Armor Wars show that's being developed

Mitch Connor

Really thought they would swap Winter Soldier over to White Wolf. and close with 'Captain America and the White Wolf' banner. I was half right, but really thought they would make that change. Would have been fitting with him completing the book.

Midnight_EG

Dunno, the episode as a whole didn't really do it for me but Sam's progression is good

Penn

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Really thought they would swap Winter Soldier over to White Wolf. and close with 'Captain America and the White Wolf' banner. I was half right, but really thought they would make that change. Would have been fitting with him completing the book.

I kinda see it as Bucky fully embracing that The Winter Soldier is who he is, even with all the bad stuff that name carries with it, and that he's going to try make Winter Soldier a name synonymous with being a hero.

Wasn't a great finale imo. It was okay, but just felt a bit by the book. Thought Karli would get the redemption rather than Walker, but good seeing that Walker isn't all the way redeemed either.

Sharon as Power Broker, I don't really get her grievances. She chose to help Steve, Bucky and Sam in Civil War, knowing the risk she was taking in doing so and got punished for it. The blame lies with Steve & Sam really for not taking her in with the Secret Avengers from Civil War to the start of Infinity War.

I thought it was a great series overall though. Almost definitely going to be a season 2.

joficeduns1

Plenty of good in the finale. Wonder when we will see them again.

Ridley

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Was very unsubtle in hammering home its points at the end. "No, thats Captain America!".

The Bradley exhibit worked far better than that and Walker stopping to have a Black Lives Matter exchange with a British-maybe? teenager.

I was hoping US Agent would have gotten the "You think this letter on my head stands for France?" line in at some point during his faux-Cap run.

Mitch Connor

Penn wrote: »

I kinda see it as Bucky fully embracing that The Winter Soldier is who he is, even with all the bad stuff that name carries with it, and that he's going to try make Winter Soldier a name synonymous with being a hero.

Wasn't a great finale imo. It was okay, but just felt a bit by the book. Thought Karli would get the redemption rather than Walker, but good seeing that Walker isn't all the way redeemed either.

Sharon as Power Broker, I don't really get her grievances. She chose to help Steve, Bucky and Sam in Civil War, knowing the risk she was taking in doing so and got punished for it. The blame lies with Steve & Sam really for not taking her in with the Secret Avengers from Civil War to the start of Infinity War.

I thought it was a great series overall though. Almost definitely going to be a season 2.

i just find it odd that bucky would embrace the brain washed and controlled assassin who killed without though or remorse as being who he is, and a name he wants to keep living on.

Wakanda gave him the white wolf name when they somewhat seperated him from the Winter Soldier - yet he keeps the Winter Soldier moniker, after working to make ammends for what he did under that name.

Agent Coulson

Future series guess on that mid credit scene

Secret Invasion

has started is my guess.

The White Wolf

I thought Walker and Sam's new suits were an interesting contrast. I was expecting Sam's to be black but what we got was surprisingly colourful. The most colourful suit even.

Penn

The White Wolf wrote: »

I thought Walker and Sam's new suits were an interesting contrast. I was expecting Sam's to be black but what we got was surprisingly colourful. The most colourful suit even.

Pretty much direct from the comics when he did become Captain America

The White Wolf

Well it worked nicely I thought, seeing a black man wearing the stars and stripes so vividly while delivering that speech.

Mitch Connor

The White Wolf wrote: »

Well it worked nicely I thought, seeing a black man wearing the stars and stripes so vividly while delivering that speech.

i dunno how people thought the show wasn't going to end with Sam as Captain America.

I'd have been gutted for Anthony Mackie if they had ended up giving it to someone else. He made a point about how proud he was, as a black man, to be given the shield and how big a deal it was for him and his kids. That alone had me thinking they had to keep it on him in the end.

RobbingBandit

Very good ending post credit scene too so stick around. Got a few questions about the power broker.

The White Wolf

Mitch Connor wrote: »

i dunno how people thought the show wasn't going to end with Sam as Captain America.

I'd have been gutted for Anthony Mackie if they had ended up giving it to someone else. He made a point about how proud he was, as a black man, to be given the shield and how big a deal it was for him and his kids. That alone had me thinking they had to keep it on him in the end.

I'm not completely gone on Mackie as an actor but I thought he did very strongly in this episode. It will be interesting to see where he fits into the film universe. Disney need to put their money where their mouth is and keep him front and centre of the MCU.

Mitch Connor

The White Wolf wrote: »

I'm not completely gone on Mackie as an actor but I thought he did very strongly in this episode. It will be interesting to see where he fits into the film universe. Disney need to put their money where their mouth is and keep him front and centre of the MCU.

i don't think he will have as central a role as Chris Evans did.

Mackie may be Captain America now, but he isn't Steve Rogers, that difference is important. Along with not being as good an actor as Evans, imo. I'd probably share your feelings on him as an actor.

The reality is also that I don't see where he needs to be central in the movies in phase 4.

2.1 Black Widow (2021) - Set before any of this
2.2 Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings (2021) - No idea if he is needed or fits.
2.3 Eternals (2021) - No need for him or any of the avengers.
2.4 Spider-Man: No Way Home (2021) - Could see a role in this.
2.5 Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness (2022) - Don't think he is needed here
2.6 Thor: Love and Thunder (2022) - Not needed here
2.7 Black Panther II (2022) - Could see a role in this.
2.8 Captain Marvel 2 (2022) - Don't think he is needed here
2.9 Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania (2022) - Nope, not needed imo.
2.10 Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 (2023) - Absolutely not needed.
2.11 Fantastic Four - there will already be 4 heros and a villian, no need for Cap.

I could see him being used more in the TV side as we go on - Armor Wars, Secret Invasion, Iron Heart - and I would guess a second season of Captain America will come on the radar at some point too.

Phase 5 might concetrate on the young avengers too - who knows.

Gbear

Thought that was absolute dirt.

The White Wolf

Mitch Connor wrote: »

i don't think he will have as central a role as Chris Evans did.

Mackie may be Captain America now, but he isn't Steve Rogers, that difference is important. Along with not being as good an actor as Evans, imo. I'd probably share your feelings on him as an actor.

The reality is also that I don't see where he needs to be central in the movies in phase 4.

2.1 Black Widow (2021) - Set before any of this
2.2 Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings (2021) - No idea if he is needed or fits.
2.3 Eternals (2021) - No need for him or any of the avengers.
2.4 Spider-Man: No Way Home (2021) - Could see a role in this.
2.5 Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness (2022) - Don't think he is needed here
2.6 Thor: Love and Thunder (2022) - Not needed here
2.7 Black Panther II (2022) - Could see a role in this.
2.8 Captain Marvel 2 (2022) - Don't think he is needed here
2.9 Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania (2022) - Nope, not needed imo.
2.10 Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 (2023) - Absolutely not needed.
2.11 Fantastic Four - there will already be 4 heros and a villian, no need for Cap.

I could see him being used more in the TV side as we go on - Armor Wars, Secret Invasion, Iron Heart - and I would guess a second season of Captain America will come on the radar at some point too.

Phase 5 might concetrate on the young avengers too - who knows.

Ok fair enough but as you say, there are films he could play a role in there still. What I had in mind in particular was the inevitable next Avengers film, the guy has to be in it in a decent role.

LawBoy2018

I would rate it 5/10. What's next in Marvel universe?

Agent Coulson

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

I would rate it 5/10. What's next in Marvel universe?

Loki series in June then Black Widow film in July.

Brief_Lives

Black widow was supposed to be released way before this time, so I presume it will have relatively nothing to do with anything in loki or Falcon/WinterS..??

The night time battle really didn't work imho. The Captain America stuff is best suited towards daylights outside of stealth stuff. It just felt very drab.

Agent Coulson

Brief_Lives wrote: »

Black widow was supposed to be released way before this time, so I presume it will have relatively nothing to do with anything in loki or Falcon/WinterS..??

Just the introduction of

Val

who turned up in Falcon.

The White Wolf

Brief_Lives wrote: »

Black widow was supposed to be released way before this time, so I presume it will have relatively nothing to do with anything in loki or Falcon/WinterS..??

Fair spoiler here so beware:

Julia Louise-Dreyfus was meant to debut in Black Widow but was reworked for FatWS.

Brief_Lives

ahhh ok... Thanks.