WWE Super Showdown (Saudi Show) - Spoilers

Sirsok

If they start selling ppv rights ,how do they expect to sell em with

1. The price increase
2. They have no stars

Omackeral

ShaneU wrote: »

Wow WWE is just terrible, they'll never learn. How can you build stars when you are jobbing them to guys in their 50s. It's all about money.

edit: Wow that was the main event? Even worse

I'm finished with the company now outside of NXT, Royal Rumble and WrestleMania.

Lord TSC

From a few days ago...

Reigns on facing Fiend or Goldberg at Mania: "I would much rather face 'The Fiend.' He’s busted his ass all year long for it. No offense to Goldberg, I think he’s a great performer, he’s a great Superstar, but I’m into the future right now."

Have to imagine in retrospect, Reigns knew this result was coming. From a Reigns perspective, beating a protected Wyatt in a proper battle would have done much more for Reigns himself. They’ve protected Reigns from being pushed too hard, too fast, and had built up Wyatt as a proper monster.

Reigns vs Goldberg will be a disaster. It will have to be a super short match, the crowd will be ****ting all over it and a reigns win over a man who can’t even do his own signature anymore does nothing for him long term.

Vince probably thinks Reigns vs Goldberg is a bigger match. But the reality of it is it’s goin to have pissed off your main fan base. They’ll edit it to look like a “Wrestlemania moment”, but it’s really just this gigantic own goal.

They’ve ruined Bray by having him job out in three minutes to Goldberg (whose last match was an utter disaster and had long since looked washed up, to be kind), and you’ve damaged Bryan and Rollins by association too (who threw everything they had at Wyatt and couldn’t even keep him down momentarily).

It’s insane.

PTH2009

The roman reigns character had his crowing Wrestlemania moment not once but twice. He beat the undertaker and another year beat Triple H for the title. Beating another legend in Goldberg will do nothing but just repeat history for him

This years mania should end with Drew McIntyre beating Lesner thus creating a new star but I would not be surprised if they have Lesner beat him and retain the title

The fiend vs cena???. God its going to be that cena vs Wyatt storyline from a few years back all over again with him playing mind games on cena

hynesie08

Lord TSC wrote: »

They’ve ruined Bray by having him job out in three minutes to Goldberg (whose last match was an utter disaster and had long since looked washed up, to be kind), and you’ve damaged Bryan and Rollins by association too (who threw everything they had at Wyatt and couldn’t even keep him down momentarily).

It’s insane.

The one where he took two bumps and made dolph ziggler look like a bigger deal than he has since the mitb cash in?

Fiend vs Roman would have played out to absolute silence at mania, just like Bray vs Orton, or Bray vs taker. Fair play to him for the Fiend character, but when the bell rings, people stop caring, at least Roman vs Goldberg should be a spectacle.....

PTH2009

Know they wont do it but imagine if Reigns is the heel in the programme. Once I never see him vs Corbin in the ring together for another few years I'll be content

Mr.Nice Guy

I'm delighted to hear Goldberg beat The Fiend. WWE needs to get back lapsed fans and that means 1) star power and 2) guys that look like they can beat you up in a fight, as opposed to the guys that the audience reckons they could take in a fight. I'll take Bill Goldberg over these cosplay, man babies any day.

Omackeral

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I'm delighted to hear Goldberg beat The Fiend. WWE needs to get back lapsed fans and that means 1) star power and 2) guys that look like they can beat you up in a fight, as opposed to the guys that the audience reckons they could take in a fight. I'll take Bill Goldberg over these cosplay, man babies any day.

Sorry but 53 year old Bill Goldberg being a top champion again (remember the Kevin Owens debacle a couple of years back) isn't excusable. It was somewhat understandable I guess the first time around as it brought a nostalgia trip in a way but this? What does this do ? It's like bringing Bruno Sammartino in to beat Austin in 98 or something. How are you gonna create new stars if you're jobbing them out to part-timers?

Mr.Nice Guy

Omackeral wrote: »

Sorry but 53 year old Bill Goldberg being a top champion (again, remember the Kevin Owens debacle) isn't excusable. It was somewhat understandable I guess the first time around as it brought a nostalgia trip in a way but this? What does this do ? It's like bringing Bruno Sammartino in to beat Austin in 98 or something. How are you gonna create new stars if you're jobbing them out to part-timers?

Goldberg is in phenomenal shape and looks like he could whip the entire roster bar one or two. Bruno would have been 63 in 98 so that example doesn't work really, not to mention The Fiend ain't no Austin either.

They need to get back lapsed fans like me that would be willing to watch if not for the fact modern wrestling has become an embarrassing mess. Bringing back a legit star like Goldberg who still looks like a star is a good way to do it. Goldberg was never required to do long matches anyway, so it works fine. A loss to Goldberg isn't going to matter a jot in the grand scheme of things.

sky88

Omackeral wrote: »

Sorry but 53 year old Bill Goldberg being a top champion again (remember the Kevin Owens debacle a couple of years back) isn't excusable. It was somewhat understandable I guess the first time around as it brought a nostalgia trip in a way but this? What does this do ? It's like bringing Bruno Sammartino in to beat Austin in 98 or something. How are you gonna create new stars if you're jobbing them out to part-timers?

49 year old Chris Jericho is the champion of AEW and no one seems to care this is more cause people don’t like Goldberg than his age or being a part timer but the majority of fans see Goldberg as a huge star and this is why they go back to him

I don’t like him being champion but bray absolutely sucks and everyone would be complaining if he main even ted maina too

Mr.Nice Guy

sky88 wrote: »

49 year old Chris Jericho is the champion of AEW and no one seems to care this is more cause people don’t like Goldberg than his age or being a part timer but the majority of fans see Goldberg as a huge star and this is why they go back to him

I don’t like him being champion but bray absolutely sucks and everyone would be complaining if he main even ted maina too

Nick Bockwinkel was a champ in his fifties too, back when the titles mattered much more than they do today.

Ultimately, you're either credible or you're not.

Monokne

Was hoping they would put the belt on Bill. I like the dynamic of Bill & Roman. I am sure they'll play up the real life vibe of Goldberg being the part timer and Roman being on the road all year, all the resentment and jealousy that comes from that. There's also the fact that Roman & Bray would have been terrible. The crowd want Bray as a babyface and the company don't want Roman as a heel, so you'd have been fighting that dynamic all over again with Roman. This thread alone is evidence that people will resent and reject Bill as the top guy which means Roman should be a reasonably strong babyface going into the match, and he'll probably win. If they keep it short like the Lesnar-Goldberg match from a few years back, it could be fun.

I'm also confused by this concern for The Fiend's push. Clearly he's going to beat Cena at Mania which is better than losing to Roman, right? And more importantly, why does anyone care? His run has been a disaster in the ring. He had worst match of the year candidates against Rollins & Miz and his soul good match was with Daniel Bryan. Are we going to pretend that this was a gigantic success? The gimmick is over but just like always with Bray, it's very much a case of "....and then the bell rang".

Itssoeasy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Nick Bockwinkel was a champ in his fifties too, back when the titles mattered much more than they do today.

Ultimately, you're either credible or you're not.

Yeah but nick bockwinkel was a good wrestler. Goldberg wasn't and isn't. He had a six or seven minute match in WCW match with William regal and couldn't handle it.

PTH2009

Goldberg is that silent muscle head type of wrestler who looks cool and just powers through his opponent's. Kids and adults love him

Hes not that in ring tech that some guys are lucky enough to be but he made a good living and continues too out of the type of performer he is

ThePott

I really don't understand people that want Goldberg as champion.
How are you meant to build new stars if they're constantly losing to part time wrestlers who are past their prime.
This isn't an issue of age, Jericho is 49 but he is consistently wrestling and can still go, this is coming from someone who wasn't convinced he should be the first AEW champ.
Saying Goldberg is a star is one thing but it's incredibly short sighted to consistently undercut your talent with someone who is not going to be in the ring for much longer. It'll work in the short term, WWE have struggled to make stars in recent years and reasons like this is why. Not to mention the fact that Goldberg doesn't need the title. If he's has the draw and star factor then having him around is a boost anyway, give him a Mania match but he doesn't need the belt by any means.
Sure Goldberg can do squash matches, that's all he's ever really done. Even if you want Goldberg to be the champ, can you really be entertained by seeing him barely be able to do a jackhammer or a half-assed spear nowadays. It's not like he was in his prime, so that attraction is gone.

I just don't get it.
Maybe it's just the fact I got into wrestling late.

cian68

My thought process is Goldberg's match with Lesnar a couple years ago ruled and everything Bray Wyatt has ever touched has been terrible

PTH2009

It's a wonder why there not offering The Rock and/or Batista millions to appear at these events giving there big Hollywood names (well the rock is Batista not so much but still a MCU character)

Hollywood Cena appeared at the first big Saudi event

Monokne

ThePott wrote: »

I really don't understand people that want Goldberg as champion.
How are you meant to build new stars if they're constantly losing to part time wrestlers who are past their prime.
This isn't an issue of age, Jericho is 49 but he is consistently wrestling and can still go, this is coming from someone who wasn't convinced he should be the first AEW champ.
Saying Goldberg is a star is one thing but it's incredibly short sighted to consistently undercut your talent with someone who is not going to be in the ring for much longer. It'll work in the short term, WWE have struggled to make stars in recent years and reasons like this is why. Not to mention the fact that Goldberg doesn't need the title. If he's has the draw and star factor then having him around is a boost anyway, give him a Mania match but he doesn't need the belt by any means.
Sure Goldberg can do squash matches, that's all he's ever really done. Even if you want Goldberg to be the champ, can you really be entertained by seeing him barely be able to do a jackhammer or a half-assed spear nowadays. It's not like he was in his prime, so that attraction is gone.

I just don't get it.
Maybe it's just the fact I got into wrestling late.

Clearly the idea is to get Reigns over in the end, which is not short sighted. He just needed a win on the way there. The Fiend as main event world champion was a disaster, completely failed experiment, so made sense to move him into the Cena match so that he can get a back win at Mania too.

Just not seeing what the problem is.

PTH2009

Edge is back at 46 and looks great but can he still pull off 90% of the stuff he used to do ??

mdwexford

So stupid.

Why build Bray as being a monster for months to have him lose to a pensioner who isn’t even on the roster in stupid Saudi Arabia.
Bill is in some shape for 53 but those spears and jackhammer attempt were embarrassing.

Most stupid move ever.

ShagNastii

They have milked “guys coming back” for too long now. There isn’t an ounce of novelty anymore. I’m completely spent on the matter.

I legit no longer want to Taker and his entrance ever again. Goldberg had his comeback we don’t need part deux. It peaked with Rock/Cena. Once in a lifetime?????

“OOOOOMMMMGGGGGGGG it’s Ric Flair, DX,NWO, DDP/-insert name here- we haven’t seen them in two whole months!!!!!!!”

Lord TSC

Monokne wrote: »

Clearly the idea is to get Reigns over in the end, which is not short sighted. He just needed a win on the way there. The Fiend as main event world champion was a disaster, completely failed experiment, so made sense to move him into the Cena match so that he can get a back win at Mania too.

Just not seeing what the problem is.

I’m not sure why you think Bray beats Cena. I’d put money on Cena beating Bray, and pretty easily (given Cena will be ring rusty).

The main problem, for me, is that there’s never any real reason to invest in any character in WWE, since you know sooner or later, their characters and development will be abandoned.

The reason WWE fails to ever build a genuine star any more is because they never try. They always, ALWAYS revert back to the exact same stars.

Brock had been murdering people for years now, and no one has actually benefited from it. Every now and again. He drops the title for a bit, but inevitably returns and continues destroying people.

Now, for the second time, Goldberg has derailed Mania plans and taken the title off someone who has busted their ass for months to develop their Mania program, only to have their legs cut off.

Goldberg can’t wrestle a match. He can’t actually put anyone over and no one benefits from getting near him in the ring

Roman will beat him in a three minute match, cause Goldberg can’t actually do much else. Two weeks latter, everyone will have forgotten it. They’ll try and build Bray back up to convince us he’s a challanger for Roman, but the magic is long gone then, and they’ve missed the long term story they could have told of a Roman being the one to beat Bray, and the repercussions that caused to Brays character.

There’s no reason to ever invest in characters in WWE. No one is allowed get over properly. Inevitably, they all are sacrificed to the alter of nostalgia, as people who don’t even watch the product anymore can scream “there’s no stars any more”?

Reigns would have benefited way, way more from a pun epic level battle that served as the culmination of months worth of storytelling. Now he’ll be beating a man twice his age that he has never had any beef with. A Mania main event with all of three or four shows worth of build.

It’s favoring the “Mania moment” over long term storytelling, and then wondering why engagement is dwindling with each passing month...

Monokne

Lord TSC wrote: »

I’m not sure why you think Bray beats Cena. I’d put money on Cena beating Bray, and pretty easily (given Cena will be ring rusty).

The main problem, for me, is that there’s never any real reason to invest in any character in WWE, since you know sooner or later, their characters and development will be abandoned.

The reason WWE fails to ever build a genuine star any more is because they never try. They always, ALWAYS revert back to the exact same stars.

Brock had been murdering people for years now, and no one has actually benefited from it. Every now and again. He drops the title for a bit, but inevitably returns and continues destroying people.

Now, for the second time, Goldberg has derailed Mania plans and taken the title off someone who has busted their ass for months to develop their Mania program, only to have their legs cut off.

Goldberg can’t wrestle a match. He can’t actually put anyone over and no one benefits from getting near him in the ring

Roman will beat him in a three minute match, cause Goldberg can’t actually do much else. Two weeks latter, everyone will have forgotten it. They’ll try and build Bray back up to convince us he’s a challanger for Roman, but the magic is long gone then, and they’ve missed the long term story they could have told of a Roman being the one to beat Bray, and the repercussions that caused to Brays character.

There’s no reason to ever invest in characters in WWE. No one is allowed get over properly. Inevitably, they all are sacrificed to the alter of nostalgia, as people who don’t even watch the product anymore can scream “there’s no stars any more”?

Reigns would have benefited way, way more from a pun epic level battle that served as the culmination of months worth of storytelling. Now he’ll be beating a man twice his age that he has never had any beef with. A Mania main event with all of three or four shows worth of build.

It’s favoring the “Mania moment” over long term storytelling, and then wondering why engagement is dwindling with each passing month...

I agree with your point about there being no real reason to invest in characters in WWE. They cannot tell long term stories and they do lean on nostalgia far too heavily.

I believe this decision was only correct in a vacuum - it was the right thing THIS time for the legend to win but not broadly.

I don't think it's fair to say conclusively that Goldberg can't have a match. His match at Wrestlemania a couple years ago was fantastic. He was knocked out in the disaster with Taker. He's looked serviceable in the matches with Wyatt and Ziggler. There's no real sample size to definitively say he can work or that he can't.

I disagree that Reigns would have benefited from beating Wyatt. The Fiend is a total babyface, and everyone who works with him comes out lesser after. Seth was totally derailed by it. Reigns would have been back in the heel role being rejected by the Mania crowd and the fans would have sh*t on his coronation again. There's also the fact that every Fiend match bar the 2nd Bryan match - so 5 out of 6 - has been a complete and utter catastrophe. Was it really appealing to think of him kicking out of 6 superman punches and 8 spears at Wrestlemania in a match that goes a solid 20 minutes longer than it needs to?

Boozybooze

The whole Goldberg quick Spear at the start of a match is really starting to get old.

Also trying to pass off a normal suplex as the jackhammer was a bit cringy.

Building Bray up like that and having him lose in a couple of minutes is just the wrong way to go about it.

Goldberg just can't wrestle anymore. His matches are just embarrassing.

Hopefully they don't waste Cena against him at wrestlemania.

PTH2009

Could they do Goldberg vs Cena at mania and still do Reigns vs Fiend (who costs Reigns in EC)

The fiend has a rematch clause remember

Boozybooze

PTH2009 wrote: »

Could they do Goldberg vs Cena at mania and still do Reigns vs Fiend (who costs Reigns in EC)

The fiend has a rematch clause remember

Their probably going to do the same what they did with Lesnar. Goldberg wins the first one, Fiend wins the second one.

2ndcoming

Some serious Stockholm Syndrome vibes in here.

Lord TSC

PTH2009 wrote: »

Could they do Goldberg vs Cena at mania and still do Reigns vs Fiend (who costs Reigns in EC)

The fiend has a rematch clause remember

No, he doesn’t. They got rid of rematch clauses. See Finn, Kofi, KO....

ThePott

cian68 wrote: »

My thought process is Goldberg's match with Lesnar a couple years ago ruled and everything Bray Wyatt has ever touched has been terrible

Bray isn't great in the ring but at least he can have a match. Goldberg can't even do that. His match with Lesnar was good because it was surprising and I put it down to Brock more than Goldberg cause he hasn't had a good match since.

Monokne wrote: »

Clearly the idea is to get Reigns over in the end, which is not short sighted.

I don't see how this gets Reigns over. If squashing a legend is meant to get you over, Bray has been doing that for months. I'm not saying that Bray has been a great champion but the idea that Roman will get more over by defeating a past his prime Goldberg (who's coming off a terrible showing with the Undertaker and beating Dolph Ziggler) with a month of build is insane. This isn't him beating the Undertaker or a dominant Brock. It's not the same thing. Besides Roman has been over a lot more lately and if anything the Corbin programme has hurt him.

The White Wolf

Lord TSC wrote: »

No, he doesn’t. They got rid of rematch clauses. See Finn, Kofi, KO....

Didn't the whole Fiend Goldberg match come around because Goldberg stated he never enacted his rematch clause?!?!?