Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

El_Duderino 09

bayern wrote: »

they've been very cautious with him in order to have him available for Ireland, not wanting to risk a setback if he had tried to play earlier.

Ah so it's not coincidence that he's ready now, but also not rushing him back. Sounds good.

I hope he comes through the weekend's game and the 6N so he can play for Leinster at the business end of the season.

awec

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That's brilliant news. I hope he's ready and they're not rushing him back or Ireland's sake. After waiting all this time, it is a bit of a coincidence that he's fit the week before the 6N. But We can assume everything is above board and it's just coincidence

This sort of thing happens all the time, long term injured players are fit and available again just before Ireland are due to play.

thomond2006

awec wrote: »

This sort of thing happens all the time, long term injured players are fit and available again just before Ireland are due to play.

Replace Ireland with Wales and you've described Sam Warburton's career.

arsebiscuits1

Miriam Gonzalez Durantez wrote: »

Darcy has 261 Leinster caps. His Wiki profile is incorrect. Toner has 256? Is there enough games left in the season to equal his record? If he doesn’t it is unlikely anyone will equal Darcys record again. They would have to start at 18 play 20 games a season for 13 years until the age of 31 to equal it , no injuries at all in that time, squad rotation permitting in larger squads nowadays where there is more rotation and competition for places. They would have to be immediately fast tracked out of club/school and be a mainstay in the team across several coaches. Maybe some player can play until 36 and beat it but with the physical nature of the pro game it is very unlikely. Maybe Leo will get sentimental and play Dev every game left in the season but I doubt it. I doubt has the legs either to get the job done but I hope he proves me wrong! Of course if the rainbow cup goes ahead all bets are off

Leinster site have D'arcy at 257 also. Where is your 261 coming from?

It's not outside the realms of possibility that a player will break it. But it's certainly a big task.

Garrigai

Miriam Gonzalez Durantez wrote: »

Darcy has 261 Leinster caps. His Wiki profile is incorrect. Toner has 256? Is there enough games left in the season to equal his record? If he doesn’t it is unlikely anyone will equal Darcys record again. They would have to start at 18 play 20 games a season for 13 years until the age of 31 to equal it , no injuries at all in that time, squad rotation permitting in larger squads nowadays where there is more rotation and competition for places. They would have to be immediately fast tracked out of club/school and be a mainstay in the team across several coaches. Maybe some player can play until 36 and beat it but with the physical nature of the pro game it is very unlikely. Maybe Leo will get sentimental and play Dev every game left in the season but I doubt it. I doubt has the legs either to get the job done but I hope he proves me wrong! Of course if the rainbow cup goes ahead all bets are off

https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/historic-player-statistics/
257 per this

Dubinusa

We should have a fairly strong team this week. A tough game in Wales though. I hope we get the win and even the bonus point. I would expect:
Byrne
Treacy
Bent
Toner
Molony
Murphy
Leavy
Conan
Luke
H.Byrne
Kearney
Frawley
Turner
Kelleher
Sylvester

Dooley
Cronin
Furlong
Dunne
Penny
H.O.S
Hawkshaw
Smith

AFAIK, R.O.L is injured? T.O.B is also out? We could also see Milne. He could get into the 23. I would like to see Sheehan, but I believe the experienced hookers will be selected. We are getting some key players back and I think any kind of win would be ideal.

Exclamation Marc

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Leinster site have D'arcy at 257 also. Where is your 261 coming from?

It's not outside the realms of possibility that a player will break it. But it's certainly a big task.

There are a number of articles referencing 261 from Leinster themselves so it's hard to determine which is correct. Perhaps 4 appearances were non-capped.

https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/gordon-darcy-rugby-players-ireland-hall-of-fame/

bayern

Dubinusa wrote: »

We should have a fairly strong team this week. A tough game in Wales though. I hope we get the win and even the bonus point. I would expect:
Byrne
Treacy
Bent
Toner
Molony
Murphy
Leavy
Conan
Luke
H.Byrne
Kearney
Frawley
Turner
Kelleher
Sylvester

Dooley
Cronin
Furlong
Dunne
Penny
H.O.S
Hawkshaw
Smith

AFAIK, R.O.L is injured? T.O.B is also out? We could also see Milne. He could get into the 23. I would like to see Sheehan, but I believe the experienced hookers will be selected. We are getting some key players back and I think any kind of win would be ideal.

ROL/TOB/Milne/Penny/Smith/Silvester all injured.

molloyjh

I'd assume we won't be getting any Irish lads back for game time this week. Hard to know what we're going to do in the back 3 given all the absentees. But with 17 with Ireland and another 10+ injuries, we can still field a good pack and half backs. Its a strong 23 when you consider its missing 28/29 players.

Byrne Cronin McGrath
Molony Toner
Murphy Conan Leavy

McGrath HByrne
Frawley Turner
Kearney O'Reilly Kelleher

Tracy, Dooley, Clarkson, Baird, Fardy, Osborne, Hawkshaw, Smith

bayern

molloyjh wrote: »

I'd assume we won't be getting any Irish lads back for game time this week. Hard to know what we're going to do in the back 3 given all the absentees. But with 17 with Ireland and another 10+ injuries, we can still field a good pack and half backs. Its a strong 23 when you consider its missing 28/29 players.

Byrne Cronin McGrath
Molony Toner
Murphy Conan Leavy

McGrath HByrne
Frawley Turner
Kearney O'Reilly Kelleher

Tracy, Dooley, Clarkson, Baird, Fardy, Osborne, Hawkshaw, Smith

we have furlong.

Serbian

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

There are a number of articles referencing 261 from Leinster themselves so it's hard to determine which is correct. Perhaps 4 appearances were non-capped.

https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/gordon-darcy-rugby-players-ireland-hall-of-fame/

The historical breakdown of all his games for Leinster says 257 (click the Competition tab for the summary). This lists every individual game he played for the province, so I'd say this is most likely correct, and any number above that is likely including uncapped appearances (or is just wrong).

Squidgy Black

Serbian wrote: »

The historical breakdown of all his games for Leinster says 257 (click the Competition tab for the summary). This lists every individual game he played for the province, so I'd say this is most likely correct, and any number above that is likely including uncapped appearances (or is just wrong).

Probably preseason friendlies etc, not sure if he played in the games against Argentina or either of the games against the Australian super rugby teams

Miriam Gonzalez Durantez

I read an article by John O Sullivan in the Irish Times which stated his actual tally of caps was 261 and not 257. I think it was article on Dev around the very topic we are discussing.

Looks like he will at least equal that record if the 257 number is correct. I can see Dev starting quite a few games but 261 might be a harder task.

Anyone want to join me in starting a Hashtag or campaign to get Leo to put Dev over the mark? I’m thinking #JusticeforDev

Exclamation Marc

Miriam Gonzalez Durantez wrote: »

I read an article by John O Sullivan in the Irish Times which stated his actual tally of caps was 261 and not 257. I think it was article on Dev around the very topic we are discussing.

Looks like he will at least equal that record if the 257 number is correct. I can see Dev starting quite a few games but 261 might be a harder task.

Anyone want to join me in starting a Hashtag or campaign to get Leo to put Dev over the mark? I’m thinking #JusticeforDev

Why does Dev need ice?

Reminds me of when Susan Boyle launched a new album and her publisher circulated the listenalong with the hashtag #susanalbumparty.

MaybeMaybe

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Why does Dev need ice?

Reminds me of when Susan Boyle launched a new album and her publisher circulated the listenalong with the hashtag #susanalbumparty.

he hit his head on a door

bayern

GT

In addition to their trio of centrally contracted players, it is believed that Leinster have at least 18 players out of contract at the end of the current season whom they want to re-sign, including the international quartet of Rónan Kelleher, Dan Leavy, Jack Conan and Dave Kearney. One imagines that Hugo Keenan, one of the success stories of the season, will be one of the few offered a pay increase.

However, Leinster prefer to wait until all deals are signed before announcing them en bloc and there is optimism within the province that all 18 will have new deals confirmed around the middle of February.

bayern

A guess at those 18 players:

Michael Bent(35) - signed contract in 2020
Ronan Kelleher(23/St. Michaels/Lansdowne) - signed contract in 2019
Dan Sheehan(22/Clongowes/Lansdowne) - signed contract in 2020
Devin Toner(35/Castleknock/Lansdowne) - signed 1 yr contract in 2020
Jack Dunne(22/St. Michaels/DUFC) - signed contract in 2020
Jack Conan(29/St. Gerards/Old Belvedere) - signed contract in 2019
Dan Leavy(27/St. Michaels/UCD) - signed contract in 2020
Max Deegan(24/St. Michaels/Lansdowne) - signed contract in 2019
Scott Penny(21/St. Michaels/UCD) - signed contract in 2019
Jamie Gibson Park(29) - signed contract in 2019
Luke McGrath(28/St. Michaels/UCD) - signed contract in 2019
Hugh O'Sullivan(23/Belvedere/Clontarf) - signed contract in 2019
Ciaran Frawley(23/Skerries RFC/UCD) - signed contract in 2019
Conor O'Brien(25/Mullingar RFC/Clontarf) - signed contract in 2019
Jimmy O'Brien(24/Newbridge/UCD) - signed contract in 2019
Dave Kearney(32/Clongowes/Lansdowne) - signed contract in 2019
Cian Kelleher(27/St. Michaels/Lansdowne) - signed contract in 2019
Hugo Keenan(25/Blackrock/UCD) - signed contract in 2019

arsebiscuits1

It's an interesting point made by Thornley.

Of the list there, which I assume is accurate as you usually are, few could really go to Leinster and make a serious case for significantly increased wages.

The timing for Keenan is excellent. At present he is first choice Irish fullback so he's got some nice leverage. But the truth is that situation could easily be different in a years time but Keenan would be laughing to the bank at that point.

At a guess, R Kelleher would also likely be due an increase. Presumably his initial 2 year was a small dev contract where as he'd have a strong case to be starting in Europe and Internationals now.

Everyone else there wouldn't have a case for more money and indeed, quite a few might be offered less as a result.

I can see Kearney been given a much lower sum with Leinster eyeing towards it being his last one.

Conan also might be looking at a reduction.

Exclamation Marc

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

It's an interesting point made by Thornley.

Of the list there, which I assume is accurate as you usually are, few could really go to Leinster and make a serious case for significantly increased wages.

The timing for Keenan is excellent. At present he is first choice Irish fullback so he's got some nice leverage. But the truth is that situation could easily be different in a years time but Keenan would be laughing to the bank at that point.

At a guess, R Kelleher would also likely be due an increase. Presumably his initial 2 year was a small dev contract where as he'd have a strong case to be starting in Europe and Internationals now.

Everyone else there wouldn't have a case for more money and indeed, quite a few might be offered less as a result.

I can see Kearney been given a much lower sum with Leinster eyeing towards it being his last one.

Conan also might be looking at a reduction.

Are any central contracts up that could be punted back down to Leinster given financial woes?

bayern

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Are any central contracts up that could be punted back down to Leinster given financial woes?

sounds like Sexton, Healy and Furlong will all stay on central deals. Probably only 1 year deals for Healy/Sexton.

awec

The IRFU could enforce a fairly hard nosed approach. Both Deegan and Conan up for renewal for example. I think Doris is the clear incumbent at #8. They surely will not allow all 3 of these lads to be on hefty salaries when at least one of them is going to be playing a lot of A rugby.

thomond2006

awec wrote: »

The IRFU could enforce a fairly hard nosed approach. Both Deegan and Conan up for renewal for example. I think Doris is the clear incumbent at #8. They surely will not allow all 3 of these lads to be on hefty salaries when at least one of them is going to be playing a lot of A rugby.

They'll find the cash for Leinster. They always do.

bayern

awec wrote: »

The IRFU could enforce a fairly hard nosed approach. Both Deegan and Conan up for renewal for example. I think Doris is the clear incumbent at #8. They surely will not allow all 3 of these lads to be on hefty salaries when at least one of them is going to be playing a lot of A rugby.

thats simply not the case though.. it's been years since any of them played A rugby.

anyway it will likely be 1 year deals to be reviewed in 2022 when more financial clarity is in the game.

bayern

thomond2006 wrote: »

They'll find the cash for Leinster. They always do.

you mean that leinster are able to raise funds to cover their expenses and make a profit in non-covid affected season?

awec

bayern wrote: »

thats simply not the case though.. it's been years since any of them played A rugby.

anyway it will likely be 1 year deals to be reviewed in 2022 when more financial clarity is in the game.

That's because Deegan has been injured. Either he'd be playing A Rugby or hardly playing at all.

It would be very hard to justify a substantial contract for Deegan given both Conan and Doris are more established in his position.

The back row at Leinster is honestly ridiculous, there is an overflow of talent. While it is excellent for the competitiveness of the Leinster squad, it is a terribly inefficient use of funds that are supposedly very tight.

AdamD

awec wrote: »

The IRFU could enforce a fairly hard nosed approach. Both Deegan and Conan up for renewal for example. I think Doris is the clear incumbent at #8. They surely will not allow all 3 of these lads to be on hefty salaries when at least one of them is going to be playing a lot of A rugby.

Deegan has just done his ACL too, very unfortunate timing.

bayern

awec wrote: »

That's because Deegan has been injured. Either he'd be playing A Rugby or hardly playing at all.

It would be very hard to justify a substantial contract for Deegan given both Conan and Doris are more established in his position.

The back row at Leinster is honestly ridiculous, there is an overflow of talent. While it is excellent for the competitiveness of the Leinster squad, it is a terribly inefficient use of funds that are supposedly very tight.

thats a rather large assumption. Deegan is one of leinsters most capped players since he made his debut.

awec

bayern wrote: »

thats a rather large assumption. Deegan is one of leinsters most capped players since he made his debut.

It’s a zero sum game. If Deegan plays lots then a Conan plays less.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

It’s a zero sum game. If Deegan plays lots then a Conan plays less.

Well not necessarily. We've seen both Doris and Conan move to 6 to accommodate the other at 8. We haven't had all our back rows fit at the same time in order to identify the plan the coaches have for who plays where. But we have seen Doris-Conan start at 6 and 8 ahead of Ruddock previously.

I dont think its a straight forward call at this stage. Especially with so many of our back rows being selected by Ireland. We effectively need at least 3 in each back row position as cover. More in some cases (VDF and Connors away with Ireland means we need 4 7s). Theres room in the squad for them. The question becomes whether Deegan is happy to fight it out with the others for selection in the bigger games or not. And can we afford all of them, even on a reduced salary.

thomond2006

Off wiki:

Jack Conan
Will Connors
Max Deegan
Caelan Doris
Dan Leavy
Josh Murphy
Scott Penny
Rhys Ruddock
Josh van der Flier

Keeping nine players happy is going to be difficult, particularly with none of them near retirement age which would allow for organic squad progression. Leavy and Deegan's injuries have allowed other players to step in at times. Leinster can probably keep everyone for now with one year deals etc but something will give in summer 2022. Healthy competition for places to say the least!