Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

Pudsy33

Confirmed for the 23rd

armchaircoach

I assume with the next two weeks going well recovery-wise, we should expect 10) Sexton 12) Frawley 13) Henshaw.

Would there be much point in retrying the combo we saw against Ulster? It seemed more of an emergency measure. Although I'll admit it went much better than a lot of people expected.

bayern

Frawley at 12 >>> Byrne at 12.

bayern

Leinster 'A' will be back in action this Friday when they face @UlsterRugby Ravens at Kingspan Stadium!

doesn't look like there will be a stream of it.

AbusesToilets

Clegg wrote: »

Ruddock has now won every Leinster Player of the Month this season. Best player in the country right now.

https://twitter.com/leinsterrugby/status/1348966598082703368?s=09

Guaranteed to be overlooked for Ireland so

rodge123

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Guaranteed to be overlooked for Ireland so

Or guaranteed to get injured just before the call!

armchaircoach

First round of 6 nations is apparently going ahead, so expect Ruddock to get injured as per schedule!

El_Duderino 09

armchaircoach wrote: »

First round of 6 nations is apparently going ahead, so expect Ruddock to get injured as per schedule!

I agree he’s doing great. But what does the back row look like with him in it? Who gets dropped?

There was a time when Stander was doing poorly, but he’s in good form now. Same with POM.

I think there are some positions which can’t improve much no matter which players are picked (in appropriate positions). The back row options are excellent and I don’t really think it matters which ones play e.g. VDF or Connors. Neither player is weak and neither player is a lot stronger than the other.

I think there’s a point of fairness and it feels fair that Ruddock should get more Ireland games because he’s playing so well, but I don’t think it would make much improvement to the back row as the other options are also playing so well.

hirondelle

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I agree he’s doing great. But what does the back row look like with him in it? Who gets dropped?

There was a time when Stander was doing poorly, but he’s in good form now. Same with POM.

I think there are some positions which can’t improve much no matter which players are picked (in appropriate positions). The back row options are excellent and I don’t really think it matters which ones play e.g. VDF or Connors. Neither player is weak and neither player is a lot stronger than the other.

I think there’s a point of fairness and it feels fair that Ruddock should get more Ireland games because he’s playing so well, but I don’t think it would make much improvement to the back row as the other options are also playing so well.

I think there is room across the tournament to play different combinations- Ruddock would fit in with that.

bayern

Possible A side for fridays game:

1. Marcus Hanan
2. Lee Barron
3. Greg McGrath
4. Joe McCarthy
5. Jack Dunne
6. Martin Moloney
7. Sean O'Brien
8. Alex Soroka
9. Hugh O'Sullivan
10. David Hawkshaw
11. Andrew Smith
12. Jamie Osborne
13. Liam Turner
14. Niall Comerford
15. Max O'Reilly

arsebiscuits1

bayern wrote: »

Possible A side for fridays game:

1. Marcus Hanan
2. Lee Barron
3. Greg McGrath
4. Joe McCarthy
5. Jack Dunne
6. Martin Moloney
7. Sean O'Brien
8. Alex Soroka
9. Hugh O'Sullivan
10. David Hawkshaw
11. Andrew Smith
12. Jamie Osborne
13. Liam Turner
14. Niall Comerford
15. Max O'Reilly

Would be good to see Osborne. Seems to be coming with a bit of hype.

Would Charlie Ryan not be in line for some minutes or is he fit?

bayern

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Would be good to see Osborne. Seems to be coming with a bit of hype.

Would Charlie Ryan not be in line for some minutes or is he fit?

injured afaik.

bayern

Ulster ‘A’ versus Leinster ‘A’ will be live on BBC iPlayer and the BBC Sport NI website bbc.co.uk/sportni at 3pm this Friday (January 15).

El_Duderino 09

hirondelle wrote: »

I think there is room across the tournament to play different combinations- Ruddock would fit in with that.

Yeah and i still don’t think it would make much difference as back row isn’t a problem for Ireland. Same with Dan Leavy. How much team disruption will they want, to test new combinations for relatively little gain? Maybe not much.

salmocab

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah and i still don’t think it would make much difference as back row isn’t a problem for Ireland. Same with Dan Leavy. How much team disruption will they want, to test new combinations for relatively little gain? Maybe not much.

I think the Irish backrow is a problem, it’s less than the sum of its parts.

errlloyd

salmocab wrote: »

I think the Irish backrow is a problem, it’s less than the sum of its parts.

Controversially I think Irish backrowers just aren't really that good. We've a lot of VERY good players, without having any truly exceptional ones.

Dwarf.Shortage

errlloyd wrote: »

Controversially I think Irish backrowers just aren't really that good. We've a lot of VERY good players, without having any truly exceptional ones.

POM and Stander will not be improving at this stage either.

FrannoFan

errlloyd wrote: »

Controversially I think Irish backrowers just aren't really that good. We've a lot of VERY good players, without having any truly exceptional ones.

Totally agree.
Sob and heaslip were lions starter level.

It's was those two plus one for ages
Don't have lads at that level at the moment but we have way more at a level just below it.

AbusesToilets

I've long thought Ruddock on form was better than Stander or POM, but obvs selection hasn't gone his way.

To me, Ireland rarely play in a style that takes advantage of their backrows abilities. Having Stander take endless static ball instead of getting him in space. Not having Conan/ Doris/ Deeagan at 8, using their ball skills.

Might be one of the few areas you can see an improvement under Farrell, and hopefully it continues.

El_Duderino 09

AbusesToilets wrote: »

...

To me, Ireland rarely play in a style that takes advantage of their backrows abilities. Having Stander take endless static ball instead of getting him in space. Not having Conan/ Doris/ Deeagan at 8, using their ball skills.

Might be one of the few areas you can see an improvement under Farrell, and hopefully it continues.

Not sure if it’s Farrell, but that’s definitely CJ’s style. There was a great slow motion shot of CJ carrying the ball at the weekend. He was watching the tackler as he aimed for the centre of the tackler and tried to power over him. It was a cool shot in terms of being a big collision but he have absolutely No thought to using footwork, finding a soft shoulder or making an offload. It was all about the collision.

sydthebeat

its telling that in the vast majority of pundits talk of lions starting back row options, there are no Irish players mentioned.

players like hamish watson and jamie richie are ahead of their irish counterparts.

ersatz

sydthebeat wrote: »

its telling that in the vast majority of pundits talk of lions starting back row options, there are no Irish players mentioned.

players like hamish watson and jamie richie are ahead of their irish counterparts.

Dan Levy looked to have that trajectory before his injury and I'm not sure Ireland would have won a grand slam without him. Do people see him having that sort of impact again?

sydthebeat

ersatz wrote: »

Dan Levy looked to have that trajectory before his injury and I'm not sure Ireland would have won a grand slam without him. Do people see him having that sort of impact again?

i hope so as i have money on him being a tourist.

whether he can make the heights to being a test player i dont know.

CJ is the closest to a jersey, but i dont think hes a test starter ahead of Bill V (assuming BV gets back up to speed)

i think an all English test back row is hard to argue against currently.
If Falateau get back to his best he'll be an option somewhere... and the mish is a player who would grace any team.

Doris will need to be a starter in all the 6N games to have any look in at all, but i wouldn't write him off yet as an outside chance of travelling

Richie_Rich89

sydthebeat wrote: »

i hope so as i have money on him being a tourist.

whether he can make the heights to being a test player i dont know.

CJ is the closest to a jersey, but i dont think hes a test starter ahead of Bill V (assuming BV gets back up to speed)

i think an all English test back row is hard to argue against currently.
If Falateau get back to his best he'll be an option somewhere... and the mish is a player who would grace any team.

Doris will need to be a starter in all the 6N games to have any look in at all, but i wouldn't write him off yet as an outside chance of travelling

I would say Doris is odds on to travel as things stand.

6s: Stander, Curry
7s: Underhill, Tipuric, Leavy
8s: Vunipola, Doris, Faletau

Something like that, maybe.

sydthebeat

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

I would say Doris is odds on to travel as things stand.
.

well hes not, hes 7/4

theVersatile

POM is 100% ahead of Leavy atm and that won't change unless Leavy gets international gametime between now and the tour. Its absolutely rediculous to say that POM isn't a lions test level player, he literally CAPTAINED them four years ago and no amount of "but Warbs started afterwards" changes that. Also, he's playing some of his best rugby atm. I'd put him as more likely to start than Doris, though I'd say both could tour. Depends on the style of game being played - Stander could easily be brought in too. Yes he is a pure physicality player, but that could well be what you need to take on the most physical international team in the world.

Dubinusa

Our back rows are good players, but there is nobody as good as SOB, Ferris and Heaslip. The English lads are considerably better, imo.
That said, I think we aren't using the back row the way we should. Too much static plays and attempts at bosh ball.
Farrell will hopefully get the right mix. It's been underwhelming for ages now.

Lost Ormond

Dubinusa wrote: »

Our back rows are good players, but there is nobody as good as SOB, Ferris and Heaslip. The English lads are considerably better, imo.
That said, I think we aren't using the back row the way we should. Too much static plays and attempts at bosh ball.
Farrell will hopefully get the right mix. It's been underwhelming for ages now.

What would you suggest the back row do so differently?
How would you change it?

errlloyd

Festive Life wrote: »

What would you suggest the back row do so differently?
How would you change it?

CJ Could be faster, his footwork could be better, his hands could be better. He could be a better lineout option.
POM's tacking could be more dominant, he could be a better jackler, he could have better discipline.
VDJ could provide a jackal threat as well as a tackle threat. He could be a stonger carrier.

These players are very good, each of them would have caps for any country bar New Zealand. But it is not hard to imagine a *better* version of each of them, and that is what some countries have.

But Geoffrey Aldritt, Charles Ollivon, Justin Tipuric, Toby Faletau, Billy V, Tom Curry, Sam Underhill, Hooper, Non Racist Matera, Sam Cane, Shannon Frizzel - these guys would pretty much all be the best back-rower in Ireland if they played in Ireland.

Richie_Rich89

sydthebeat wrote: »

well hes not, hes 7/4

Ha, okay. You're the man for the odds.

I still don't really see him missing out.

- only one of Faletau and Navidi can start at 8 for Wales, so the other will be behind the 8 ball a bit

- Scotland's best backrowers are flankers rather than 8s

- Ireland moved to Stander at 6 and Doris at 8 for the Autumn, which is good for Doris's chances