Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

aloooof

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

I suppose they go hand-in-hand to some extent. Was it Ringrose a couple of years ago who said what they were trying to do under Farrell was get width in the defensive line so they could come up aggressively without fear of being beaten on the outside?

Anyway, you can't watch the endgame of the 2012 Wales 6N game where Wales marched 60m upfield before scoring the winning penalty or the Argentina quarter final or the 2013 All Blacks endgame and tell me that Ireland didn't employ a very passive defensive system. NZ got a lot of credit for going through all those phases without a mistake, but when the ball actually did go to deck where was the pressure from the Irish defence? Nowhere. That's where. Nonu was able to pick it up under no pressure like he was going for a stroll in the park. Even when NZ take the tap after McGrath is penalised the majority of the Ireland players retreat to the halfway line, giving them 12m instead of nine and a half.

Players were out on their feet at the end of that game. It was far more down to fatigue, imo. They weren't doing it by design.

Scottmactom

Leinster's most creative backline?

9. Jamison Gibson Park
10. Jonathan Sexton
11. Tommy O'Brien
12. Harry Byrne
13. Garry Ringrose
14. Jimmy O'Brien
15. Ciaran Frawley

Clegg

How are you defining creativity here? Lowe and Larmour can magic linebreaks and offloads from anything. They'd have to be present in any backline.

sydthebeat

Clegg wrote: »

How are you defining creativity here? Lowe and Larmour can magic linebreaks and offloads from anything. They'd have to be present in any backline.

Creative by sticking a load of 10s in there?

Shefwedfan

Henshaw really gets a bashing on here, not sure what he has done. Yes he is a competitive player and he likes a bit of a bashing but he has incredible ability to pass etc.....his 12/13 combo with Ringrose is one of the best in World, just they have not played much togetehr recently

Shefwedfan

sydthebeat wrote: »

Creative by sticking a load of 10s in there?

50% of the players are 10's


Not sure how creative it would be with players out of position

Scottmactom

Clegg wrote: »

How are you defining creativity here? Lowe and Larmour can magic linebreaks and offloads from anything. They'd have to be present in any backline.

playmakers on the ball

Clegg

These Under 7's have long memories

https://twitter.com/seapointrfc/status/1259903693048156161?s=19

Richie_Rich89

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Henshaw really gets a bashing on here, not sure what he has done. Yes he is a competitive player and he likes a bit of a bashing but he has incredible ability to pass etc.....his 12/13 combo with Ringrose is one of the best in World, just they have not played much togetehr recently

Ah, I'm not sure about that. They're not the most creative as a combo. I was watching highlights of the 2012 league final after the talk of the defence that season. O'Driscoll has a really nice try assist in it. I think that ability to create space for other people and then pass, putting them into a hole, is a not very strong element of Ringrose's game. He's more about trying to beat defenders by himself. He wouldn't have BOD's vision. You couldn't really imagine him pulling out a try-scoring pass like O'Driscoll's to Zebo in that game against Wales in 2012 or 2013.

I'd say the only part of Henshaw's game at 12 that is world class is his defence. He's brilliant at that. Don't know what kind of level you're measuring him by when you say he has incredible ability to pass. Certainly not world level, I don't think. He shows a bit more skill in more space at 13, but he's thrown some shockers in his time. He's not a natural 12, for me. He looks constrained in the role.

I'd say the most creative backline would be:

9. Jamison Gibson-Park
10. Harry Byrne
11. Rory O'Loughlin
12. Conor O'Brien
13. Jimmy O'Brien
14. Tommy O'Brien/Hugo Keenan
15. Ciarán Frawley

Conor and Jimmy O'Brien played a bit of outhalf at lower levels, and Frawley still does, obviously.

Quin_Dub

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Ah, I'm not sure about that. They're not the most creative as a combo. I was watching highlights of the 2012 league final after the talk of the defence that season. O'Driscoll has a really nice try assist in it. I think that ability to create space for other people and then pass, putting them into a hole, is a not very strong element of Ringrose's game. He's more about trying to beat defenders by himself. He wouldn't have BOD's vision. You couldn't really imagine him pulling out a try-scoring pass like O'Driscoll's to Zebo in that game against Wales in 2012 or 2013.

I'd say the only part of Henshaw's game at 12 that is world class is his defence. He's brilliant at that. Don't know what kind of level you're measuring him by when you say he has incredible ability to pass. Certainly not world level, I don't think. He shows a bit more skill in more space at 13, but he's thrown some shockers in his time. He's not a natural 12, for me. He looks constrained in the role.

I'd say the most creative backline would be:

9. Jamison Gibson-Park
10. Harry Byrne
11. Rory O'Loughlin
12. Conor O'Brien
13. Jimmy O'Brien
14. Tommy O'Brien/Hugo Keenan
15. Ciarán Frawley

Conor and Jimmy O'Brien played a bit of outhalf at lower levels, and Frawley still does, obviously.

Playing an out-half out of position in the centre or on the wing doesn't make them "more creative" it just puts them under pressure..

All the creativity in the world counts for very little if the guy outside , for example doesn't have the necessary wingers pace to make use of the lovely cut out pass or whatever from the guy inside..

aloooof

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Playing an out-half out of position in the centre or on the wing doesn't make them "more creative" it just puts them under pressure..

All the creativity in the world counts for very little if the guy outside , for example doesn't have the necessary wingers pace to make use of the lovely cut out pass or whatever from the guy inside..

Not to mention it's pretty hard to play-make from the wing... but if Richie wants to believe that those lads would make a better fist of it than Sexton, Larmour, Lowe, Ringrose etc. leave him at it!

Richie_Rich89

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Playing an out-half out of position in the centre or on the wing doesn't make them "more creative" it just puts them under pressure..

All the creativity in the world counts for very little if the guy outside , for example doesn't have the necessary wingers pace to make use of the lovely cut out pass or whatever from the guy inside..

Erm, yeah. That's why I don't have outhalves playing out of position?

You know COB's primary position is 12, JOB plays 13 and 15 and Frawley can play 10, 12 and 15, right?

Richie_Rich89

aloooof wrote: »

Not to mention it's pretty hard to play-make from the wing... but if Richie wants to believe that those lads would make a better fist of it than Sexton, Larmour, Lowe, Ringrose etc. leave him at it!

What's your argument? That players who are ahead overall are automatically, retroactively better in every single facet of play (e.g. acceleration, speed endurance, creativity, power etc.) just by dint of being ahead overall?

Noel Reid is objectively more creative as a 12 than Robbie Henshaw is.

Aaron Sexton is objectively faster than Jacob Stockdale.

You seem to be conflating two different things.

Shefwedfan

Based on the backline picked so far, I am just sticking all the players name on a dart board and firing darts at it, see how it ends up :-)

prawnsambo

I love when people say 'objectively' and then proceed with an opinion.

Dravokivich

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

What's your argument? That players who are ahead overall are automatically, retroactively better in every single facet of play (e.g. acceleration, speed endurance, creativity, power etc.) just by dint of being ahead overall?

Noel Reid is objectively more creative as a 12 than Robbie Henshaw is.

Aaron Sexton is objectively faster than Jacob Stockdale.

You seem to be conflating two different things.

I dunno. As a 12 I'd say Noel Reid was keen to play where he was needed when you take into account he came through the academy as a 10. He was decent in Defense and good at attack. But he was not quite what I'd consider creative. He responded well to what was happening around him, but he didn't tend to do anything to expose the opposition nor misled them.

PMC83

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3g4c-rkzEw


Interview with Mads, interesting listen, but not too upbeat on his part

salmocab

Salanoa off to Munster apparently. Seems an odd enough move.

Squidgy Black

Reports that Salanoa is off to Munster, and the top brass aren't too pleased with the IRFU as we'd convinced him to turn down Connacht to stay.

Probably a good move for him in terms of game time considering we have Abdaladze, Aungier and Clarkson behind Porter and Furlong, and Bent (if he doesn't retire before the season starts back). But I'd imagine it's extremely frustrating for management to go through bringing him over and getting him up to speed for the IRFU to reportedly be pushing the move.

irishbucsfan

Did Leinster actually go through much effort bringing him over originally?

Clegg

The IRFU are very keen to promote the other provinces as good destinations for Leinster players. And why wouldn't they? It's in their best interests to get as many talented player playing regularly. Very frustrating as a Leinster fan though. We're seeing players developed by the province being poached by the others, and them reaping the benefit. Not quite the same issue with Salonoa as he only arrived relatively recently. Best of luck to him.

Strange move to go to Munster though. They have Ryan and Archer already there and their other poach Knox as third choice.

pickarooney

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Did Leinster actually go through much effort bringing him over originally?

I thought he came knocking of his own accord

salmocab

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Did Leinster actually go through much effort bringing him over originally?

Not really but they have invested a lot of effort into getting him to the level he’s at.

Squidgy Black

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Did Leinster actually go through much effort bringing him over originally?

Eddie O'Sullivan linked him up with the sub-academy through the scouting bits he was doing stateside but Leinster were the ones who brought him over and gave him a trial I believe

sydthebeat

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Did Leinster actually go through much effort bringing him over originally?

Wasnt Eddie o sullivan and wes liddy quite instrumental in getting him a shot at leinster?

Clegg

With Porter and Furlong in situ we're well sorted at tighthead for the medium term.at least. Unless pressure is out on Porter to consider his longer term prospects ofc.

irishbucsfan

sydthebeat wrote: »

Wasnt Eddie o sullivan and wes liddy quite instrumental in getting him a shot at leinster?

My understanding was they did most of the legwork yes.

Maybe Leinster might feel they invested sub academy time in him that was lost, but can't really see anyone being too upset. It's a good move for him if Munster are letting a couple THs go as rumoured.

It'll be a great story for him if he eventually gets to the required standard

Stan27

Anyone know how martin maloney got on this year?

FellasFellas

Stan27 wrote: »

Anyone know how martin maloney got on this year?

Was injured for a lot of it. Was impressive for Belvo in AIL when he played. A player I rate definitely.

Scottmactom

3 years academy coaching at leinster has gotten him a pro deal with Munster, great work by him and leinster academy coaches.

Good luck to him at Munster bar when playing Leinster, he isn't a huge loss at the end of the day and i'd rather he went south than Tom Clarkson.