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Family home after separation

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  • 05-05-2019 8:42pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,747 ✭✭✭


    Hi all,

    Freshly separated and waiting for mediation service date but does anyone know what usually happens regarding the family home? Being the dad, I'm the one moving out as usual, but I've paid the mortgage on it (it's in both our names) for the last 10 years and there's about 140,000 left on it. She works and has a decent wage but I want to buy a house of my own but obviously cant afford two mortgages and probably won't get one while my name is on the family home.
    Does mediation allow me to be taken off the mortgage on a family home so I can get my own one? Is there any way she can be forced to buy me out. What options do I have? I want to buy a house as it's cheaper than renting and I don't want to end up renting a hovel where there's not enough room for my three young kids to stay over.

    Any advice much appreciated!


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 309 ✭✭LastStop


    smokingman wrote: »
    Hi all,

    Freshly separated and waiting for mediation service date but does anyone know what usually happens regarding the family home? Being the dad, I'm the one moving out as usual, but I've paid the mortgage on it (it's in both our names) for the last 10 years and there's about 140,000 left on it. She works and has a decent wage but I want to buy a house of my own but obviously cant afford two mortgages and probably won't get one while my name is on the family home.
    Does mediation allow me to be taken off the mortgage on a family home so I can get my own one? Is there any way she can be forced to buy me out. What options do I have? I want to buy a house as it's cheaper than renting and I don't want to end up renting a hovel where there's not enough room for my three young kids to stay over.

    Any advice much appreciated!

    Get a good solicitor, with Kids involved you've got little hope of a judge forcing her to sell. Mediation is like a feeling out process, neither can be legally held to any suggestions that come from it, you don't need to go through it if it appears to be a futile exercise.

    The fact that you've paid the mortgage also means nothing. Her and her legal representative will claim that she's fed, clothed the kids while contributing to the upkeep of the house.

    If your lucky she will be in a position to buy you out and make agreement at mediation regarding, the house, access to the kids, paying her maintenance. If your unlucky it will turn nasty, you'll be renting a dog box for 2 years trying to get it to court, while paying at least half the mortgage and support for her and the kids.

    Don't forget to vote in the referendum this month, it could save you two years of emotional distress.

    Just to reiterate, get a good solicitor on board. Make sure they communicate properly with you and explain all possible outcomes.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    Don't move out


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,551 ✭✭✭SeaFields


    OP, a mediated agreement can be made a rule of the court. You raised some issues around the home and these are ones you'll bring to the mediation sessions. You might have to make concessions as will your ex. That's the nature of mediation. It'll save plenty of legal fees of ye can see the process through.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,245 ✭✭✭myshirt


    judeboy101 wrote: »
    Don't move out

    Agreed. Don't move out but also don't engage in any acrimonious behaviour, or bite when she does.

    On your question, the bank are unlikely to release you from the mortgage voluntarily. Why would they? Better for them to have two people on the hook for the money owed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭tony1980


    Can she apply for a Judicial Seperation which might mean you have to move out?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,116 ✭✭✭bazermc


    Don’t move out and call solicitor.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4 Susiepringle


    Use mediation where you can both come to a solution with help. The house can be sold when the last child is either 23 or finished college but if your ex is agreeable she could take on the mortgage and you can start again. A solicitor will advise you to stay in the house until an agreement is made but this can cause a lot of stress for everyone involved, particularly any children. There are a few options, your ex can take sole ownership and you walk away with nothing but can mediate a solution where you pay less maintenance or she could buy your half out but that depends on whether she can raise a lump some or not. Honestly, mediation is brilliant for a long term solution. You could try the citizens information centre and get an appointment with flac which will give you a clearer picture of your options while waiting for mediation


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭Charles Ingles


    Don't do anything drastic after a recent separation you never know hopefully you and your wife can work things out.
    Definitely agree with mediation, ive personal experience with accord marriage counseling highly recommend.


  • Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    I'm in a house valued between €650k and €700k, with a mortgage of €500k on it. Could a court not order that it be sold and each partner can buy their own home? There are kids (under 5) involved. As the man I would fear my post-marriage life if I have to live in a hovel while paying off that €500k. It seems deeply unfair to allow one partner to live in luxury when two good homes could be bought for €300k each and everybody wins.


  • Registered Users Posts: 996 ✭✭✭mitresize5


    its your family home as much as your wifes.

    Dont leave it until you have a deal that works for you, or more likely equally as bad for both of you.

    If you move out you will still have to pay most of the cost and you wont have a leg to stand on. Your ex will have everything (house, custody, maintenance) and no reason to engage with you in a constructive way if she doesn't want to

    Get the best solicitor you can afford

    good luck with it


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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,694 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    Give the mediation a chance I'd say. Avoid solicitors as far as possible.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,440 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Give the mediation a chance I'd say. Avoid solicitors as far as possible.

    A little from column a, a little from column b,
    Go with mediation, if it works, it works well, let it do the heavy lifting... but get your legal advice too...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users Posts: 39 bored reader


    Plus 1 on the mediation. You would be surprised how much can be achieved in this process.
    Keep away from tge solicitors for as long as possible. They make a handsome living from this. Where possible they should be only used to sign up a mediation agreement for court.
    And stay in your family home as long as possible too.
    Are things anyway good between yourself and your ex at present?


  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭D13exile


    I'm divorced three years now. However my family law case dragged on for 4 years from 2012-2016. Tried mediation but the ex refused to compromise on anything. She wanted everything (house, maintenance and custody of our children - in that order!) and for me to move out but still pay the mortgage. I suggested we share the childcare 50:50 and sell the house and split proceeds equally. She refused. Four years of legal hell later and €50,000 in legal fees between us, what was the outcome? Children split their time 50:50 between us and the house was sold and proceeds split equally. So we ended up with the outcome that I had suggested at mediation four years earlier but the legal eagles got fifty thousand in fees out of us. How that money would have come in handy for us both since then:(

    As others have said, do not move out of the family home as you will be effectively conceding this to her. Put separate living arrangements in place such as separate bedrooms, a separate fridge for food, washing clothes separately, agreed rota for childcare etc. You'll need to state all this in Court to prove that the marriage has been over and that you are "living separate lives under the one roof" which was my case.

    My suggestions to you in order of preference:
    1. Try counselling to see if the marriage can be saved.
    2. If not, try mediation to see if a satisfactory solution can be worked out between willing individuals and thus avoiding enormous legal fees
    3. Think about representing yourself in Court if you feel capable as you know the case inside out whereas your wife's legal team is relying upon her for information (which in my case worked in my favour as she lied through her teeth to her legal team and I constantly tripped them up with the facts). There is a group near Dublin who advise people on how to represent themselves in Court.
    4. Final option is to get a Solicitor. Just make sure that they are capable as there are a lot of eejits out there who's only real expertise is charging you costs. I went through three before I settled on number four. However I eventually dispensed with number four too when I saw that she had no real appetite for a fight and was too eager to concede.

    Marriage breakdown is a horrible nightmarish event, made much worse by the trauma of the family law system in this country. Look after your mental health by confiding in close relatives and friends as you'll need to be strong to get through this.

    Best of luck.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3 Diabolik


    I'm glad, and it's very refreshing to hear, that I am not the only one who went through at least 3 solicitors withouth finding any valuable help.
    I would quote verbatim D13exile, although I didn't know there is some help available for people wanting to represent themselves, which is what I have been considering lately.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,836 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    D13exile wrote: »
    what was the outcome? Children split their time 50:50 between us and the house was sold and proceeds split equally.
    Can I ask what age the kids were? I thought the Courts generally defaulted to leaving one parent in the family home until the kids left school. Good to hear there was a more equitable solution in this case.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,747 ✭✭✭smokingman


    Can I ask what age the kids were? I thought the Courts generally defaulted to leaving one parent in the family home until the kids left school. Good to hear there was a more equitable solution in this case.

    I'm curious about this too. Also, what is the name of the self representation advisors? Think I'm going down that route myself


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,024 ✭✭✭gar32


    Just some advice as I split from 1st wife and found out a few things.

    You can live in the same house and live separate lives.

    1st and foremost. Think long and hard if maybe there is hope to get back together. I have seen family split and buy new houses ect only to get back together.
    Try a few books to help your thinking as I am sure the stress levels are high.

    (the 5 love languages review) A book that would have helped me but I read it too late.

    Try sort things out without paying a solicitor. If you can say 66% her & 33% you as there are children involved maybe you will not need one.

    If you do go different ways know that You may be considered a 1st time buyer again. Yes I got it a 2nd time as the family home was bought out by my wife. This saved me a few €€€ & I found it out myself with no help from Solicitor.

    I also did my own divorce a few years later at a cost mostly in Postage for €200. €10 for the Solicitor to sign it was good as he quoted me €5k.

    I am into my 2nd marriage this time with kids and I know that they should help you want to be together.

    Compromise and understanding can bring a lot to help couple work things out.

    Good luck and I hope you have happiness which ever way things go.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,747 ✭✭✭smokingman


    gar32 wrote: »

    If you do go different ways know that You may be considered a 1st time buyer again. Yes I got it a 2nd time as the family home was bought out by my wife. This saved me a few €€€ & I found it out myself with no help from Solicitor.

    I also did my own divorce a few years later at a cost mostly in Postage for €200. €10 for the Solicitor to sign it was good as he quoted me €5k.

    I don't suppose I could ask you how you wrangle that? I'm looking to hand over house to her entirely as part of lower maintenance payments but the 10% deposit savings on a new house for myself would be ideal for me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 748 ✭✭✭Paul_Mc1988


    smokingman wrote:
    I don't suppose I could ask you how you wrangle that? I'm looking to hand over house to her entirely as part of lower maintenance payments but the 10% deposit savings on a new house for myself would be ideal for me.


    I see you're not taking anyones advice so going by the above post. You're rolling over. Don't just give up the house for a marginal reduction in maintenance. You will come off worse. Stay in the house and split everything 50/50 with a maintenance payment from you to her. It's the best option financially.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,747 ✭✭✭smokingman


    I see you're not taking anyones advice so going by the above post. You're rolling over. Don't just give up the house for a marginal reduction in maintenance. You will come off worse. Stay in the house and split everything 50/50 with a maintenance payment from you to her. It's the best option financially.
    Theres been a lot happen since my first post. I could go into the details but they're a bit gruesome. The deal is for very reduced maintenance, not much at all. I'll be free to get another mortgage and I'll be able to bring half a tracker with me into my new mortgage.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    I see you're not taking anyones advice so going by the above post. You're rolling over. Don't just give up the house for a marginal reduction in maintenance. You will come off worse. Stay in the house and split everything 50/50 with a maintenance payment from you to her. It's the best option financially.

    Please don't agree to reduced maintenance in lieu of your share of the family home. I have a family member who niavely agreed this with his ex wife, thinking it would be legally binding. She played him like a fiddle. Within a few months of the agreement being made, she applied to the Court for more maintenance and was granted it and he ended up with no house, and paying through his teeth anyway.Those type of agreements don't stand up in court.

    Does you wife earn enough to take over the balance owed on the mortgage on her own? If not, the bank won't let her take on the mortgage by herself anyway, or release you from it.

    If there is decent equity in the house, you can seek an order for the property to be sold and the equity split. Don't get caught up in the idea that "its the kids home". Its only bricks and mortar the kids will adjust, and it would give you both a fresh start on an equal footing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    gandóchas wrote: »
    I'm in a house valued between €650k and €700k, with a mortgage of €500k on it. Could a court not order that it be sold and each partner can buy their own home?

    You'd probably have to push for it, but yes, it is possible, all being equal. The court would consider other factors too, like are both spouses working and in the position to qualify for another mortgage.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    gar32 wrote: »

    If you do go different ways know that You may be considered a 1st time buyer again. Yes I got it a 2nd time as the family home was bought out by my wife. This saved me a few €€€ & I found it out myself with no help from Solicitor.
    o.

    Do you have a link or more info on how this works please?


  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭D13exile


    Diabolik wrote: »
    I'm glad, and it's very refreshing to hear, that I am not the only one who went through at least 3 solicitors withouth finding any valuable help.
    I would quote verbatim D13exile, although I didn't know there is some help available for people wanting to represent themselves, which is what I have been considering lately.

    There is/was a group set up near Dublin who provided advice on how to represent yourself in family law cases. I can't find the link now but they were around when I was going through my divorce and I found them quite good. However at that point, I'd sacked the last of my Solicitors and was a fast learner when it came to filling out legal forms and how to conduct myself in Court.

    Can I ask what age the kids were? I thought the Courts generally defaulted to leaving one parent in the family home until the kids left school. Good to hear there was a more equitable solution in this case.

    My 4 children ranged in aged from 6 to 10 when I was divorced. They now split their time equally between their mum and I.
    smokingman wrote: »
    I'm curious about this too. Also, what is the name of the self representation advisors? Think I'm going down that route myself
    See my first response above. They may have gone away now but they were in existence when I was in the Courts.

    Finally, as another poster stated, making an "agreement" now to hand over the house to your soon to be ex in lieu of lower maintenance is crazy. For a start, there is no "full and final" divorce in this country as your ex can reenter proceedings if their circumstances change. I agreed to let my ex keep all the child benefit (€600 a month) despite the fact that I have my children half the time but she is now demanding that I pay her maintenance on top of this, despite the fact that she spends the child benefit on herself with shopping trips to New York, spa breaks with the girlfriends etc, while I buy their clothes, pay for school expenses etc. I've got to account for all of this and keep receipts etc despite being divorced three years now. This will only stop when the children are finished full time education. You may give your ex the house now but she can come back later saying she needs more money for the kids, bills etc etc. Go for joint and equal custody where you both have the kids half the time and thus share the financial cost equally for raising them. This will lessen her case for seeking money from you in the future but you'll never be truly free of her while your children are still in education, something that the legal eagles don't tell you when they are trying to get you to compromise so a deal can be struck.

    Finally, finally, please remember that your Solicitor and Barrister are NOT on your side. They will drag this case out as long as possible to bump up their fees. They will antagonise and irritate your ex, and her legal team will do the same to you in order to get respective tempers raging and thus more and more legal paperwork (that you pay for) flying back and forth. The only thing the legal eagles are interested in is your money. As I said previously, my case cost fifty thousand in legal fees as my ex wouldn't compromise on anything and dragged it out for four years. Every phone call, email and letter to and from your Solicitor will be billed for. You will be shocked at how the fees rack up.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    D13exile wrote: »
    There is/was a group set up near Dublin who provided advice on how to represent yourself in family law cases. I can't find the link now but they were around when I was going through my divorce and I found them quite good.

    Could it have been USPI? They are disbanded now, but there is still some good content on their website.

    www.uspi.ie


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,892 ✭✭✭BronsonTB


    Are you both on talking terms & wanting to come to agreement?

    Yes,
    Go to mediation & get that rubber stamped with a court order
    Mediation itself is not legally binding

    No,
    Get a good solicitor before doing anything else.

    In terms of the Mortgage.
    The bank will only take you off the deeds if the other party prove they can carry the mortgage on their own.
    You may have to pay a lump sum to bring it down to an acceptable balance before they take you off.
    This will also depend on your Bank.

    You probably won't be able to get your own mortgage in the short term.
    Been there & understand the difficulty you now face.
    Good luck with it all.

    www.sligowhiplash.com - 3rd & 4th Aug '24 (Tickets on sale now!)



  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭Another day


    Do not sign the house over in return for reduced maintenance! Reasons given already by other posters. Your own circumstances may change, hers may change and you'll be in and out of court like a yo-yo.


  • Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    What happens to the family home when there's adult offspring living at home? They are over 23 so they are not classified as dependants. They work but mortgages are out of reach for them and they would struggle with renting. The help at home with bills and the maintenance of the property.

    Would a judge order the selling of the family home is a situation like that? Would a judge take the housing crisis into consideration? What's the point of making a family homeless?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,836 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Neverapple wrote: »
    What happens to the family home when there's adult offspring living at home? They are over 23 so they are not classified as dependants. They work but mortgages are out of reach for them and they would struggle with renting. The help at home with bills and the maintenance of the property.

    Would a judge order the selling of the family home is a situation like that? Would a judge take the housing crisis into consideration? What's the point of making a family homeless?
    If the judge didn't make an order to sell the family home in those circumstances, they would be making one of the parents homeless.


    I've no direct experience, but surely it would be up to the parents to make whatever arrangements they choose for the adult children.


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