Advertisement
Boards are fundraising to help the people of Ukraine via the Red Cross at this horrific time. Please donate and share if you can, you will find the link here. Many thanks.

Family home after separation

2

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 166,038 ✭✭✭✭ LegacyUser


    Thanks for the reply AndrewJRenko. I see the point that you're trying to make in that if a judge doesn't put in an order for the selling of the family home, one parent would be at a loss, and that would be the parent who left the family home. However, if a judge does order the selling of the house, the judge would be chucking one parent and two adult offspring out from the home and making three people homeless in favour of one. Does that make sense?


  • Registered Users Posts: 166,038 ✭✭✭✭ LegacyUser


    What happens if house is in negative equity. He wants to sign house to me but mortgage has been extended to reduce payments as he stopped making payments 7 yrs ago. Is the negative equity split 50/50?


  • Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭ anamcheasta


    This was a highly informative thread, and for the first time (in D13Exile's post) I see a bit of hope. Like Gar32, I've been reading relevant self-help books extensively and Gary Chapman's Five Love Languages was mind-opening, as was John Gottman's 'Four Horsemen' as were so many articles on "attachment styles", which ultimately were central in my decision to end this.

    I've recently been refused legal aid because my net income is above €18,000. The problem was that despite having verifiable annual mortgage repayments of c. €18,000 the Legal Aid Board (LAB) only take into account a maximum of €8000 for accommodation. So, I'm over the €18000 limit, even though in reality I'm very firmly under it. Crazily, it appears that everybody who has a net income of more than €18,000 must find €30,000-plus (minimum) legal fees (which I've been quoted) to seek a separation/divorce in the circuit court, or else represent themselves.

    In the meantime, we are (correctly) advised by everybody not to leave the family home as you lose rights to your children and your property, and your not-so-soon-to-be-ex can stonewall mediation for years knowing you don't have the financial resources to free yourself from that control. What are the options then?

    As noted above, Éamonn Quinn's Unmarried and Separated Parents in Ireland group (in Phibsboro) is, very unfortunately, no longer active [http://www.uspi.ie/], although the website still has very helpful information. In short, there's a massive paucity of support for anybody - any man? - who needs to get out of a marriage. I actually cannot find any support in Ireland for people who need to separate/divorce. Am I missing something? I also don't personally know anybody who has ever been divorced or separated to get any experiences. On the worst days I have contacted Men's Aid and One Parent and the women in both organisations were incredibly sympathetic but they couldn't, as policy, recommend anybody who might be able to offer legal advice or help me solve things (another thing I've learnt recently, I think from John Gray; apparently men need to find solutions, while women want to verbalise things without necessarily getting a solution). I thought they might have some panel of legal experts to draw on.

    Ultimately I paid over €300 net (I had to earn c. €600) to meet a family lawyer who told me it would cost over €30,000 net (i.e. €60,000 plus of my gross income) at least to bring a case to the Circuit Court. I could get a loan for €10k and I'd happily do that to get out of this. However, having legal fees of €30k plus net, with no guarantee of a max, is absolutely crazy in a state-controlled legal system. People just accept this as "normal". Ethically, how can elected legislators in Dáil Éireann permit the private legal industry to hyjack Irish citizens' rights to justice in public courts of this republic? People don't even question this private interest group's strangehold on our justice system.

    The fact that 1) the Irish State refuses to issue statistics regarding the success of each gender in family law court cases, and 2) existing evidence strongly indicates men are generally denied 50% of shared parenting and 50% of the family home means that it's more likely than not that for a man to bring a case to the court he will be saddled with a massive legal bill which would take many years to pay off, on top of not having 50% of parenting and 50% of the family home, and having to pay maintenance. People talk about mediation to avoid courts. They are right. But when, in full knowledge of how the legal system is so extortionately expensive and favours women, your not-so-soon-to-be-ex stonewalls mediation, just what realistically are the options for men given the enormous financial cost? The person who wants to keep the status quo continues to control.

    I wish more people with experience of separation/divorce contributed to this forum as there's just nothing online in terms of shared experience of the Irish family law system (loads of experiences of the US and UK system shared online). The whole process in Ireland is so secretive and esoteric, on top of the extortionate closed shop that is the legal industry. Are Boards.ie ever going to bring back anonymous posting? Maybe that would help to get people posting their experiences here?



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,587 ✭✭✭✭ Kintarō Hattori


    How is somone expected to pay for these legal fees? Most people don't have 50K lying around. I presume you get billed before they do anything for you?

    Post edited by Kintarō Hattori on


  • Registered Users Posts: 802 ✭✭✭ 2lazytogetup


    Can I ask why some posters are recommending not moving out till mediation or solicitor agreement??? I'm in same position myself where ex wants me out.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 725 ✭✭✭ Paul_Mc1988


    As soon as you leave the house is hers until the kids are 18 or until they are finished education could be 21. The judges will sign the house over to her for sole use and you'll have to find somewhere else.


    When that's over you force her to sell the house and the proceeds are split 50/50.


    Hold your ground and move into a spare room if you have it. Get her to agree to sell the house and split it 50/50 and until then you are staying there. Hold your ground or you'll come out of this fucked over.


    Family Courts only care about the women!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 802 ✭✭✭ 2lazytogetup


    Thanks Paul. Much appreciated. i probably want the kids to stay in family home as they have their routine and friends on the road. but ill try and stay in the spare room until mediation so i know how much money i can have to spend on my new accommodation.


    i hope your separation went, is going as well as can be.



  • Registered Users Posts: 725 ✭✭✭ Paul_Mc1988


    Im not separated :D. I just know the ins and outs and that in general men get screwed over. Hope it works out for you :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 658 ✭✭✭ JimmyMW


    I think this is a fair point, from my experience once one party is irrational/awkward the law is very much on their side irrespective of if your male or female, if your dealing with an awkward wife or husband its an uphill battle.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭ elizunia87


    I am on my way to be separated. Got legal aid for separation. I live in family home with baby and all bills incl mortgage and debst by myslef. Daddy does not contribute anything. He left to rent a room.

    Hopefully this will be resolved soon. I also cant imagine to live with my ex. Must be very stressful



  • Registered Users Posts: 283 ✭✭ RIRI


    Coupled with the fact that he gets free legal aid, as he chooses not to work. I am left spending the funds I had saved to buy him out on legal fees as well as private counselling for our child (free services have 1yr plus waiting lists). I’m between a rock & a hard place here and the advice given to him to remain in the family home is nothing short of criminal to be perfectly honest



  • Registered Users Posts: 725 ✭✭✭ Paul_Mc1988


    So what. Many women are stay at home mothers and as you say it "do not nor have they ever contributed towards the mortgage" and yet they are entitled to half of the house.


    So if a Man breaks up with a women should he get the whole house if he was the one paying the mortgage.... NO is the answer. Your point in mute.


    Why should he move out and if he should should all th stay at home mothers move out too?



  • Registered Users Posts: 725 ✭✭✭ Paul_Mc1988


    See my above post on why it's not a fair point!



  • Registered Users Posts: 725 ✭✭✭ Paul_Mc1988


    Your living there on your own and have the house to yourself. Why shouldn't you be paying the bills and mortgage?



  • Registered Users Posts: 658 ✭✭✭ JimmyMW


    I agree with you, but two wrongs don't make a right, no one man or woman should automatically have a right to something in a separation based on their sex, be it primary carer, property, or money. What i was agreeing with above is if your have an awkward man who wont pay for his child and doesn't give a **** the woman has a long and drawn out procedure to go through in order to make him own up to his responsibilities, however if you have an awkward woman who will not even agree to discussions only straight for court and wants the skin an all off of your back you have a long and drawn out procedure to go through also. I was basically saying if one party plays dirty by intentionally not working or hiding funds or assets or coercing the kids or whatever and drags court and solicitors into it at every opportunity, then for the reasonable person in the situation its a hard battle ahead.



  • Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭ elizunia87


    I am not saying that he should have pay. I live on my own I pay but still waiting for final word about house



  • Registered Users Posts: 725 ✭✭✭ Paul_Mc1988


    Well said and great post.


    The only fair way in my eyes is sell the assets and split it even both ways or one party buy the other parts out In an out of court agreement so that the solicitors adont take half of everything.



  • Registered Users Posts: 658 ✭✭✭ JimmyMW


    I honestly cant see how a persons contribution to a family unit, outside of child maintenance, cannot be assessed and given a % contribution, then everything valued by a professional and divided or bought out accordingly. Then on a completely separate item maintenance for the children to be agreed accounting for a 50/50 split in costs and again it proportioned to the parent who is the primary carer. Ie if primary carer has children 70% of the time the other parent pays 20% of the costs to the primary carer along with the 30% of the costs when they have the child themselves. I cannot see how that is not fair.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 725 ✭✭✭ Paul_Mc1988


    And so do stay at-home fathers.

    See if the role is flipped and it's the woman that's the provider which is the case above ànd they split, women will say he's a free loader etc and want the house and think they have sole entitlement.


    But if its a man that's the provider they will say she does the housework and cleaning and should get at least half the house and the use of it till the kids are older.



    Anyway we're getting off topic. At the end of the day staybin the house until they agree and amicable split of the resources.



  • Registered Users Posts: 725 ✭✭✭ Paul_Mc1988


    With regards to the IE part ,that would be a perfect split IMO.


    The issue with the first part will be the court will not want to unsettle the kids so they can't think that logically. They will look for the best scenario with reagrd to them and if the man has left the house they grant the mother and children sole use and the father gets fucked over having to pay half a mortgage, his own rent and maintenance.


    Without kids the court typically splits 50/50 or close enough to it. I have seen swings as high as 65 /35 but they are not that common



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,409 ✭✭✭ maestroamado


    An example of consequences of this and real story... marriage broke and and father denied access... through the court system and court failed to deal with despite medical reports so dad lost contact...

    Woman takes up with other man... woman passes away and 2 children (1 adult) continue to live in arrangement as per the deceased mum and continue to live with the partner in family home...

    It turns out that the Father of the children just got lucky and is now pretty well off and no-one to pass on to...

    sorry if it seems like rant... family member...



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    How does he have No one to pass it onto? He has two children?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    But that poster didn't say he was a stay at home dad. If he was doing all the housework, budgets, childminding etc then fair enough, but that wasn't said.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,409 ✭✭✭ maestroamado


    Yes now adults and they betrayed what he was trying to do... he will not reward them ...this went to the top of our political system... question in the Dail...

    Enda asked question to Brian L when he was minister for Children... his reply... nothing to do with me....



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well, I'm not sure I understand, and I'm sure it's a personal matter, but they are his next of kin, so inheritance goes to them, unless he is purposely cutting them out. Off topic I guess. Sounds sad.



  • Registered Users Posts: 725 ✭✭✭ Paul_Mc1988


    He not working and stays at home with the children..... that's literally the definition of stay at home dad.

    He wouldn't have to prove he does any of the above just like a woman wouldn't as it would be nearly impossible.

    Hes probably entitled to half as per:

    Civil Partnership and Certain Rights and Obligations of Cohabitants Act 2010

    Which protects the dependant spouse when cohabitation occurs for 5 years or 2 years with kids.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,409 ✭✭✭ maestroamado


    Nothing sad about it... its the Ireland we live in... punish the victims...



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well I meant it sounds kind of sad that he 'will not reward them' for 'betraying ' him, I presume they are the real victims



Advertisement