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Who Watches the Watchmen (Our Chit Chat Thread)
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭
Join Date:Posts: 59003
The shove in Teslas is unreal alright.
They're very heavy mind you and you can feel that in the corners if you press on and feedback through the controls is decidedly numb to say the least, but then again the granular feedback of the olde days is pretty much gone from most cars today(and was only present in a few cars in the past, but nostalgia paints things differently) and cars are much heavier than they used to be anyway. If you ever get the chance to pedal a sorted 1960's Lotus Elan, my god, you'll find out what feel and feedback is. Run over a coin mid corner and you'll stand a good chance of working out whether it's heads or tails up through the steering wheel and the momentum you can carry through a corner at speeds you can scarcely believe is eye opening. That said if you have a head on collision with a mountain bike you're going through the pearly gates, so there's that...
Teslas used to be variable in quality and quality control, but lately I've not seen that to nearly the same degree and yet it's generally one of the first things pointed out about them. I'd say they could be as perfected as a Faberge egg and you'd still get the "quality control" stuff from some. Even on the earlier issues the only one I personally noted was paint could be a bit hit and miss in spots. What impressed me about them from early on was how quiet and squeak and rattle free they were. It's easy to forget the sound of an engine can cover a multitude of noises, even in the higher end marques. When you're being wafted along by electrons you can't hide that stuff.Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 59003
Nah, it seems to have been a had a few cans and posted post(which in its original guise was interesting).As an aside did we just miss out on a 2AM visit from another chap who was going to enlighten us all on the true nature of time?
Fitzs " I remember my first spliff" reply had me chuckling at that one.
Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 59003
It's when I read stuff like this NJ do I truly realise I'm a luddite who drives a Flintstones car.The two console displays are ok, there is some menu digging for some commonly used functions. I guess they though drivers would use voice command. Software is definitely the weakpoint, lane keeping is a nasty ping pong affair, distance keeping is good it can classify cars trucks and cyclists.
My lane keeping and distance keeping software.
Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 59003
From the start that suspension setup was unreal in the comfort department. Citroen were such innovators back in the day. The DS still looks a bit like a Car of the Future to this day and it was chock full of very clever innovative stuff. They still waft along today if properly sorted. Pity the engines were where they cut the Francs. The brake peddle, sorry bulb takes some getting used to. I only drove one once and how I didn't go flying through the windscreen every time I tried to slow down.I had a citroen c5 with the hydro pneumatic suspension, great comfort, a car I regret selling. The DS is a car that couldn't be any more French if it tried.
I suppose that wafts along comfort isn't in vogue any more. The need for some to get good times around the nurburgring being a lot of it. The visual styling that prefers more wheel than sidewall doesn't help either. That even nurburgring monsters with rubber bands for tyres don't dislocate your spine on a drive to the shops shows how much progress has been made in suspension. In the past you either had floaty gin palaces that handled like oil tankers or stripped down racing snakes that rattled your retinas loose. Today you can kinda have both with the press of a button.Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 59003
I'd agree 100% Fitz that the Teslas Model3 Performance are a fantastic car in so many respects and you list a few of them. I'd add longevity to it if Tesla don't bork that to keep sales up and far lower maintenance costs and reliability issues and room and storage space is good too and it's a very nice looking car to boot. However they are heavy and the steering feel is pretty much absent. 1800 odd kilos is a bloody heavy car. That said we as the driving public have become used to the weight creep over the years as pretty much all cars have gotten fatter over the years* and steering feel has slowly been eroded, replaced with quicker racks to give more of an impression of directness, electric power steering(for economy, well, it's more about the changeover to all electric) and a numb and uncommunicative feel to the steering inputs.
This is in play in drivers cars like the M3's et al too. Someone like Chris Harris, a very experienced driver and car journalist has noted this down the years. He very much rates BMW's for example, but his fave is an 80's example(7 series I believe?) he owns which makes the current stuff feel completely wooden by comparison.
As he notes at 3:30 in this video, everyone who designs a modern sports car should drive one of these to find out what it's like.
Now times change and people get used to changes and want them too. Cars are overall better, with more goodies, faster, safer and the brakes actually work and the average "boring" family car of today is of a far higher standard across all metrics than cars of the past. However while the majority of drivers today don't notice, or never noticed and don't care, steering feel and certain driving dynamics have been very much lost in that mix too.
*people want more "toys" and safety equipment(a good thing) adds weight and it costs big money to reduce weight while keeping that kinda thing on board. Eg The Alpine A110 is a true 1100 Kg car and the engineers weighed every bit of trim and nut and bolt to keep it that light. When independent testers weigh cars it's a near given they're actually heavier than published figures, the Alpine is one of the few that aren't. If you take the cool/daft[delete as applicable) Honda Civic R, it's heavier than the baser models in the range. That's a 180 degree reversal of what the R stuff used to stand for.Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 59003
Off topic thread goddamit N! And just saw that Murray Walker the motorsport commentator of my youth and beyond has passed away. 97 mind you, bit still. 
Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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Off topic thread goddamit N! And just saw that Murray Walker the motorsport commentator of my youth and beyond has passed away. 97 mind you, bit still.
I’m a huge F1 fan. Murray was a bit before my time and yet I can still hear that distinctive voice in my head even though I wouldn’t have even been 10 when he was commentating. Undoubtedly the voice of F1 rip.0 -
Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 59003
OK on topic for the forum. Found this advert in my stash of same earlier.
Must be from around 74/5 given the mention the Apollo/Soyuz mission. Interesting that they note the price. like how such an expensive enterprise as space relied on such a reasonably priced watch and how it is easy to "simply buy" in your local jewellers like NASA did(which was kinda true) and how it beat "any other chronograph tested"(which is a tad marketing speak. They only tested three and only two other movements in that three). These days they slap a cartoon Snoopy on it somewhere and ask for 10,000 quid of your freedom bucks and push the rarity and the high price as a luxury. And fair play if they can get away with it.
If Patek had been the moonwatch no doubt it would take a very different tack. "A man in a 27000 dollar suit wears a 2000 dollar watch, because he knows the price doesn't matter when you're facing danger". etc. And "he's saving it for the next generation". His son really, as his daughter likely being the sensible one would want a quartz that had proper functionality, but that doesn't track well.
An odd bit is the Apollo-Soyuz spacesuits part. They weren't doing any EVA's so didn't need any EVA specific suits so I'm not sure where Omega were getting the price from? IIRC they did use a slimmed down and cheaper version of the Apollo/Skylab suit for the launch and return stages of the ASTP mission. As it happens I have the launch checklist for that very mission somewhere about the place and it was one Mr Walt Kapyran's copy, he who was the launch director for that flight. I remember as a kid watching it on telly when the Americans and the Russians shook hands in space. Very cool at the time. Especially with the cold war still in play.Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 59003
I suspect the former C...Thats a $1,148.85 watch in todays money based on 1975. So did their greed go up or did their manufacturing proficiency decline? To be fair it is what it is. After the "quartz crisis" they had to readjust and went for the luxury angle. And it worked bloody well for them and other Swiss marques. Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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They don't have the sound of a performance car...yet, and personally thats a bit of a draw to sports cars for me. How is the handling on the Teslas? The biggest thing i love about my car is that it handles like a go cart once you know its limits due to the quattro, if anything the ride even at its firmest setting is too soft for me. I imagine the Tesla must have a bit of body roll even though the centre of gravity is so low?
Performance EV's are sprung like rocks. THe M3P is on independent multilink all-round on Michelin P4S it is literally like a go cart, its 4wd also with selectable torque vectoring, you would be amazed. I was, feckin hated EV;s for the longest time.
cnocbui I think if she tired a high performance EV her mind would be changed. A leaf is not a comparison. I am sure that the benefits will trickle down over time. I have car pals that were die hard EV haters, guys with serious performance cars. 10 minutes in a good EV and they were sold, but like St. Peter you have to put your hands in the wounds to believe.
Wibbs
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 59003
That'd be Thomas, he of the doubtings. EV's are a step forward in a load of ways. Take the Leaf. Outside of some early adopters who think it "fast", because they've never driven anything fast, or mistake initial takeup as speed, it's a great car in that segment. Those that were hating on it clearly hadn't driven similar small cars in that segment. It's head and shoulders above the oilburners. The first series was eye wateringly ugly in my humble, but you didn't see that while driving it. It was(and remains) bereft of feel, but then again the vast majority of cars today are and again in its segment it was hardly an outlier in that. The whole range anxiety stuff means feck all to the majority of drivers on small island Ireland. I'd bet a goodly chunk of people could get away with 50k range, never mind 200.but like St. Peter you have to put your hands in the wounds to believe.
The only practical issue I have with EV's is the notion of how "green" they are and IMHO it's yet another push the problem down the road solution that makes us feel better. The other is road goods transport in general. Batteries are still in the tu'penny ha'penny place in the energy density equation and it's a good way in the future before the space a litre of petrol takes up will be close to the same space as the equivalent stored energy in batteries takes up. Musk's Tesla lorry is a long way away before it makes any sort of sense. Range is too small and it can't carry as much, so costs go way up, as does shipping times. There's a reason Teslas are transported on oilburning 18 wheelers. Though the Musk fanbois are so convinced of their latter day prophet they ignore basic physics and economics because of his reality distortion field.Wibbs Yeah it does feel that way alright Fitz, but it clearly works for them and has worked for them since the late 60's. That's some longevity in marketing. I wonder how much impact the Moonwatch had on keeping them afloat in the 70's and how much of their profits were down to it? I suspect if NASA had been serious at the time about personal timepieces and tested more than the couple they did test and I dunno Heuer got the gig the watch landscape might have been quite different today. Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 59003
I didn't notice too much in the way of bodyroll in the one I drove. It's more of a sit up, than sit down into car if you know what I mean, so it's not "sporty" in that sense, but it gripped and went well, though this was on smooth roads, I'm not sure how it would go on more bockety B roads, what with the weight and the suspension travel?The biggest thing i love about my car is that it handles like a go cart once you know its limits due to the quattro, if anything the ride even at its firmest setting is too soft for me. I imagine the Tesla must have a bit of body roll even though the centre of gravity is so low?
Personally I'm not fond of the go kart setup T. I like a bit of give and feedback where you can feel the car rotating. Go kart type setups are more about grip than handling. Grip, grip, grip, oh f... hedge, ditch, upside down in field, wee running down your neck. Though they're probably safer for non racing driver types. They've enough grip and help from traction control that you loose your bottle and back off before you need to find out how it handles. I run out of talent in a peddle car so I'm fully aware of my limitations. Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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Cyclingtourist wrote: »Lithium free transport, running on baguettes and tins of coq au vin.
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And cheese and cured meats! Greatest way to see the world you notice and can stop at places you just fly by in the car. One of my best memories from a tour in France with my brother is stopping at a farm down a lane and buying a bottle of cider and eating our lunch there with it.
Before camera phones got good so don't have many pictures from it. Brother was gone for 80 days so carrying a lot more. I only did the first week with him.
Better at taking pics days but only managed a few tours in Ireland since. Planning someday when kids are grown to do a long one. Maybe ferry to Santander and work my way up the coast to Roscoff. Want to upgrade my sleeping bag and maybe tent this year they are both a bit bulkier than I'd like.
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That'd be Thomas, he of the doubtings.
I like to leave at least one glaring mistake in evrey post for you to correct Wibbs, and you never failed me yet.
Too many paddy spec EV;s out there, when you drive a nice one everything is right with the world. Same with ICE cars and watches
Here is mine having a drink of electrons (7 euro for 280km and 0-100kmph in 3.2 seconds) , you have to name them when you take delivery and mine is "Blusain Bolt". My previous car cost 90 euro for the same range on petrol and was a second slower and far less responsive, for my use case I am defo polluting less, the environmental cost of manufacturing a new car allowing.
Yeah it does feel that way alright Fitz,
Wait till they get to Mars, something I hope to see in my lifetime...it will be intollerable.0 -
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 59003
"Blusain Bolt" Brilliant. "Blusain Volt" might work too. Looks gorge in that colour. You really can't go wrong with nearly 300 clicks for under a tenner. Petroleum distillates are a lot pricier. Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BuZmJmpTdk
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