Who Watches the Watchmen (Our Chit Chat Thread)

njburke

Hi All,
I've been keeping an eye on the accuracy of a recent purchase, a Bulova accutron from 1974. I bought on eBay from a seller in bulgaria, who I later found out is one of the few folks who will service an accutron.
It's a simple three hander, face case and dial all in good condition, lume on the hands has a bare glow, there wasn't much lume when it was new so that doesn't surprise me.

So I measured it's timekeeping over 42 days, when worn on the wrist it gains +2 or +3 seconds, unworn it drops a second per day. Over the 42 days that has aggregated to +13.5 secs. So that's quartz like performance from a tuning fork watch that's 47 years old.

I know a factor here is that my usage pattern cancels the positive rate when worn for a day or two by leaving it in the watchbox for a couple of days.Worn continually I suppose i'ld reset it every month or two.

I suppose temperature is the largest source of variance for the mechanism, thermal expansion lengthens the fork arms. I would of thought my warm wrist would expand the fork length and shift the fork frequency down and slow the watch. My wrist is definitely warmer than the watchbox, but the opposite seems to be happening.

Lorddrakul

lfc200 wrote: »

Have a Jorg Gray 6500 commemorative edition that was given as a present to me a number of years ago. Haven’t worn it in probably 7 years so looking to sell, anyone here a feel on what it would be worth?

Don't know about that specific one, but this one is still on for retail:

About £300 brand new. Draw your own conclusions.

Lorddrakul

In the now long running saga of a delivery of a bracelet from AliExpress, there is an update today.

It now says:
"2021-03-09 11:34
GMT+1

Delivering - Accepted by Last Mile Carrier"

That wasn't there yesterday. And, as of the post this morning, still nothing.

So, supposed to be in the country more than a week, and now two days in last mile delivery.

I live less than 3km from the nearest post centre.

Plus, strangely enough, I'm at home a fair bit.

Cyclingtourist

"She'll be coming round the mountain when she comes."

Percy French, lyicist, painter, cyclist and occasional County engineer.

Wibbs

njburke wrote: »

So I measured it's timekeeping over 42 days, when worn on the wrist it gains +2 or +3 seconds, unworn it drops a second per day. Over the 42 days that has aggregated to +13.5 secs. So that's quartz like performance from a tuning fork watch that's 47 years old.

The Accutrons were a real leap in accuracy when they came out. In history accuracy kinda went along the upward line of accurate to under a minute per hour(when they first stuck minutes hands on), then under a minute per day, then per week. Accutron came along and right off the bat jumped that to under a minute per month. Big leap. Now yes you could get chronometers and the high quality large balance spring pocketwatches(and high quality wristwatches) that could do or get close to that. Chronometer ratings could be had for movements but they were uncased and only tested for a few days but they were expensive and tended to wander in actual use and required more servicing to keep that accuracy. Accutrons were cheaper(though they were by no means a cheap watch) and could be relied upon to keep that kind of accuracy. The fancied up Swiss tuning forks similarly. Omega pretty much put all their f300 movements up for chronometer ratings as the regs hadn't caught up yet and they were sure to pass them.

Then quartz came along and promised under a minute per year, though brands quickly found out that most didn't really care to that degree especially if it added to the costs(which it did) and high accuracy quartz watches became a slow selling niche market, or like Omega's Marine Chronometer barely sold at all(cray cray money when new 800 pounds when a Speedie/no date sub was under 200)). The only one that really took off and sold in numbers was Longines original Very High Precision series, especially as the costs and prices dropped. They were going from 84 to the early noughties.

Lorddrakul

It is an odd thing, no doubt.

When I see my 7750 based flieger does +2s per day over an average of a week on the wrist, I'm delighted. When the my SuperQuartz Aerospace loses a second over three months, I grumble a bit.

We are an odd bunch.

Yes, I saw 'we'.

Cienciano

Lorddrakul wrote: »

In the now long running saga of a delivery of a bracelet from AliExpress, there is an update today.

It now says:
"2021-03-09 11:34
GMT+1

Delivering - Accepted by Last Mile Carrier"

That wasn't there yesterday. And, as of the post this morning, still nothing.

So, supposed to be in the country more than a week, and now two days in last mile delivery.

I live less than 3km from the nearest post centre.

Plus, strangely enough, I'm at home a fair bit.

I have one with the last mile carrier since the 2nd! I live in Clonskeagh in Dublin. It's just slow as fúck. Must be chaotic with brexit and everyone ordering shít online because of lockdown. BTW, the watch I ordered is fúcking amazing. Might have to get the SLR out to photograph it

lfc200

Lorddrakul wrote: »

Don't know about that specific one, but this one is still on for retail:

About £300 brand new. Draw your own conclusions.

Super thank you, didn’t think they would still be available new so didn’t even look!
Cheers

Wibbs

Lorddrakul wrote: »

It is an odd thing, no doubt.

When I see my 7750 based flieger does +2s per day over an average of a week on the wrist, I'm delighted. When the my SuperQuartz Aerospace loses a second over three months, I grumble a bit.

We are an odd bunch.

Yes, I saw 'we'.

Yup. Though if the SuperQuartz Aerospace keeps that up that's losing four seconds per year. That's scary level accurate. Like actual navigate a ship accurate.

Eoin

That's pretty much identical to my experience with my Quartz Breitling - lost 14.5 seconds over 3.5 years.

Cyclingtourist

Wibbs wrote: »

. Like actual navigate a ship accurate.

When I was in the merchant navy one of my daily chores was to check the ship's chronometer against a radio time signal. There was a speaker usually on the bridge that you could pipe the signal through from the radio room. There was a record kept of its accuracy (+/- 18 sec. or whatever) that the person taking sights with a sextant applied to the calculations. All pretty redundant nowadays with satnav.

Wibbs

The radio time signal changed everything back in the day, like satnav has since. Before that a ships chronometer had to be super duper accurate, but with the radio time signal you could measure the drift and still lay in a very accurate course. This really came into its own when flight took off(ouch). It meant that a good quality watch didn't need to be marine chronometer level accurate. Marine chronometer escapements are very delicate and wouldn't last long in a cockpit.

This also gave rise to something every one of us that has a dive watch will be familiar with; the external rotating bezel. Now some watches, notably the 1930's pilots watch design that Zenith Helvetia, Omega and a host of others produced had a bezel with an internal pointer, the Longines "Czech" another, but the Longines Weems was the first to have what we would recognise long before any dive watch design came along. Longines went bezel crazy for a time. Here's a 1929 Patent for the Longines external(and lockable) bezel for the Weems system:



Which now answers that age old question; why do pilots wear divers watches?

scwazrh

Last years Swiss watch sales down a third according to this .

https://www.watchpro.com/rolex-accounts-for-one-quarter-of-entire-swiss-watch-industrys-annual-turnover/

Creamy Goodness

scwazrh wrote: »

Last years Swiss watch sales down a third according to this .

https://www.watchpro.com/rolex-accounts-for-one-quarter-of-entire-swiss-watch-industrys-annual-turnover/

makes sense I guess, factories were shut for a good chunk of the year so output was down.

Wibbs

Most of that drop was in the first months of the worldwide lockdowns and it started to come back up as confidence in the market came back, so if you just take the second half of the year on its own sales weren't too far off average. Plus some brands were hit much harder than others as happens when confidence falters. The big boys came out relatively unscathed, but the smaller outfits got harder hit. In other areas of consumer spending things went up. EG Apple's watch side grew by a fair margin compared to 2019. Their watch side has one advantage in this of course, updates that promise more function. Something lacking in the wider watch market, where continuity and stability is more a thing.

cnocbui

I have seen many Apple fan bois claiming the Swiss watch industry's scalp as yet another trophy collected by their beloved company.

God save me from lithium batteries.

Creamy Goodness

cnocbui wrote: »

I have seen many Apple fan bois claiming the Swiss watch industry's scalp as yet another trophy collected by their beloved company.

God save me from lithium batteries.

ahh same happens in every industry, look at Tesla fanbois :pac:

I have to admit my daily wearer is an Apple Watch, I see it for what it is (a massed produced throwaway item) and has caused me to lose 25kg in the past 12 months. I do wish they released one that was just a band and no screen so that I could wear my mechanicals a bit more whilst still wearing a Apple "band" on the other wrist.

The one thing smart watches have done that is great for the watch industry is get everyone excited about wearing a watch again. Whilst there still exists the "sure I have the time on my phone" brigade it definitely is a lot smaller than just a few years ago.

Cienciano

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

ahh same happens in every industry, look at Tesla fanbois :pac:

I have to admit my daily wearer is an Apple Watch, I see it for what it is (a massed produced throwaway item) and has caused me to lose 25kg in the past 12 months. I do wish they released one that was just a band and no screen so that I could wear my mechanicals a bit more whilst still wearing a Apple "band" on the other wrist.

The one thing smart watches have done that is great for the watch industry is get everyone excited about wearing a watch again. Whilst there still exists the "sure I have the time on my phone" brigade it definitely is a lot smaller than just a few years ago.

Yeah, the second part of that rings through. I used to wear watches and stopped for years. Then the wife got me a smart watch. I wore it for a week and hated it, but got back into watches again.

BTW, 25kg in a year is seriously impressive, if the smart watch does anything to help or motivate people to do anything like that it's well worth it. My 9 year old kid is around 25kg, just imagine you're walking around without all that weight on you! Fair play!

banie01

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

ahh same happens in every industry, look at Tesla fanbois :pac:

I have to admit my daily wearer is an Apple Watch, I see it for what it is (a massed produced throwaway item) and has caused me to lose 25kg in the past 12 months.

Very well fúcking done!
That's a great achievement and if the Apple helped you towards it, I'll praise them to high heaven!

redlead

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

Whilst there still exists the "sure I have the time on my phone" brigade it definitely is a lot smaller than just a few years ago.

The same can be said for almost every feature on an apple watch to be fair. I don't get the "the time is on my phone argument " anyway. With a watch, you have the time and date or whatever at a glance. You don't need to go rooting around your pocket or press any buttons. There is a difference.

Fair play on losing all that weight. I'd give yourself the credit over Apple though. Hard work through diet and exercise.

Creamy Goodness

redlead wrote: »

The same can be said for almost every feature on an apple watch to be fair. I don't get the "the time is on my phone argument " anyway. With a watch, you have the time and date or whatever at a glance. You don't need to go rooting around your pocket or press any buttons. There is a difference.

Fair play on losing all that weight. I'd give yourself the credit over Apple though. Hard work through diet and exercise.

Ah yeah I don't get it either, but it's the first thing or it's the most loudest reason people mention as to why they don't wear a watch of any kind.

I think it was a bit of a perfect storm tbh:

* a good kick up the hole from a doctor
* lockdowns cutting my commute from 1hr a day to 10 seconds, I replace the commute with two 30 minute walks.
* work travel went from two long haul trips a month, to zero, being able to expense food is a slippery slippery slope, pity I wasn't able to expense any watch purchases in DXB airport
* actually paying attention to the fitness/"get off your hole" prompts the watch had been giving me :pac:

Wibbs

cnocbui wrote: »

I have seen many Apple fan bois claiming the Swiss watch industry's scalp as yet another trophy collected by their beloved company.

God save me from lithium batteries.

Oh I hear you. Fanboism is strong around a few companies, Apple, Rolex, Tesla etc and carefully curated and nurtured by the same companies. It's what's made them billions, even when it's often been vapourware like Elon Musk's promises. I mean here was a guy going on about his hyperloop stuff when it had been an idea since the 19th century and his fans thought him a genius for it. He's a genius of marketing that's for sure. Even when you look at spacex where stuff is actually happening and is cool to watch, when you dig beneath the hype and claims it's pretty thin gruel too. He did kick the car industry up the hole on the electric cars side though and if that's all he ever does it was a very good thing.

Cienciano

redlead wrote: »

Fair play on losing all that weight. I'd give yourself the credit over Apple though. Hard work through diet and exercise.

Sometimes it's just a kickstart thats needed. And exercise can be boring as fúck, it having a toy to play with makes it easier, great. I'm looking to get a bike, reckon having something to mess with can make it easier to get motivated or keep the interest up.

banie01

Cienciano wrote: »

Sometimes it's just a kickstart thats needed. And exercise can be boring as fúck, it having a toy to play with makes it easier, great. I'm looking to get a bike, reckon having something to mess with can make it easier to get motivated or keep the interest up.

Speaking of a toy to play with giving a kickstart.
I bought an Oculus Quest 2 last week, that I wasn't left open until I finished my mid-terms.

Finished the last 1 at 12
Fired up the VR, ran through the tutorial and then gave the creed boxing demo a try.
I'm breathing heavy after 3 rounds!
There is huge potential for VR to play a role in fitness I think.
The engagement and immersion is fantastic, it's leaps and bounds ahead of the last time I tried VR.

Cienciano

banie01 wrote: »

Speaking of a toy to play with giving a kickstart.
I bought an Oculus Quest 2 last week, that I wasn't left open until I finished my mid-terms.

Finished the last 1 at 12
Fired up the VR, ran through the tutorial and then gave the creed boxing demo a try.
I'm breathing heavy after 3 rounds!
There is huge potential for VR to play a role in fitness I think.
The engagement and immersion is fantastic, it's leaps and bounds ahead of the last time I tried VR.

My mate got one at Christmas, dying for this lockdown to finish so I can try it.

Fitz II

Cienciano wrote: »

My mate got one at Christmas, dying for this lockdown to finish so I can try it.

I have a Valve Index, flippin deadly....Half life Alyx is the best game ever made...it is tiring doing hours on end and I do get a little motion sickness after a long session, but such great fun.

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

ahh same happens in every industry, look at Tesla fanbois :pac:

I have a Tesla too cause I is trendy, and can tell you the worst thing about tesla is tesla fanbois. But at the same time when you have a very clear market leader in any area, any positive comment can be seen as fanboi behaviour and attacked viciously. The art of mutually beneficial discussion on the internet is gone. It is fair to say that Tesla is the one to beat in electric cars, and Rolex is the one to beat in watches (if the turnover figures are to be believed).

Smart watches are not for me I have tried one, but I think they have solidified the quality mechanical wrist watches place as wearable art rather than degrading it.

Time

Fitz II wrote: »

I have a Tesla too cause I is trendy,

How do you find the interior? I love the idea of a Tesla but I can’t get past the interiors, the single screen in the centre kills me.

Creamy Goodness

Fitz II wrote: »

I have a Tesla too cause I is trendy, and can tell you the worst thing about tesla is tesla fanbois. But at the same time when you have a very clear market leader in any area, any positive comment can be seen as fanboi behaviour and attacked viciously. The art of mutually beneficial discussion on the internet is gone. It is fair to say that Tesla is the one to beat in electric cars, and Rolex is the one to beat in watches (if the turnover figures are to be believed).

Smart watches are not for me I have tried one, but I think they have solidified the quality mechanical wrist watches place as wearable art rather than degrading it.

Don’t get me wrong, I too would have a Tesla if I could afford one. They are the best electric car by far. I have no problems with anyone that fanboi’s over the technical feat of their cars but when they start to blur the lines and start talking about musk being the second coming, that self driving taxis will take over the world in the next 5 years and let’s pump and dump stock because lol memes it gets too much.

The model 3 is probably my next car, I just hope they can increase the quality of the interior just a tad before that time when I test drove one something felt off with the seats, felt a little plasticky, I still prefer the seats in my A5.

Couldn’t agree more re watches and art. Also you’ve tried a smart watch and it’s not for you, that’s totally fine opinion to have. You’ve already done more than 90% of people that argue and fanboi about on the internet .

Fitz II

Time wrote: »

How do you find the interior? I love the idea of a Tesla but I can’t get past the interiors, the single screen in the centre kills me.

I love the interior, but I am into the whole minimalist thing. You need the premium interior for the nice feel of the plastics. The single screen is not an issue, take 30 minutes to get used to and the technology in them is world class. Best stereo in any car I ever had. Don't find the pleather bad, very comfy. I came from a M4 which is the total opposite, all dials, HUD's and closed down for driver focus....would rather the tesla very open and airy. I will go model S next, it has just been refreshed and looks great.

Smart watches may have improved but the ones I tried did not have always on screens making telling the time a pain and the constant notifications were intrusive. I quickly gave up. Battery life was not great either. I am sure they will improve

Time

Fitz II wrote: »

I love the interior, but I am into the whole minimalist thing. You need the premium interior for the nice feel of the plastics. The single screen is not an issue, take 30 minutes to get used to and the technology in them is world class. Best stereo in any car I ever had. Don't find the pleather bad, very comfy. I came from a M4 which is the total opposite, all dials, HUD's and closed down for driver focus....would rather the tesla very open and airy. I will go model S next, it has just been refreshed and looks great.

I have a TT which is along the lines of the M4 interior wise, very enclosed sporty feel with everything directly in front of you or on l the wheel which i love. I’d find it hard to move away from that.