"Book readers" - Season 8 Episode 2 "A Knight of the 7 Kin" - Spoilers post 2 fo

Loafing Oaf

Pter wrote: »

She is 22 you know. Could be like.

I don't want to get into a pervy forensic analysis but the way the scene is shot screams body double to me...

OneOfThem Stumbled

I'm wondering if there are pacing issues with this season. Two back-to-back episodes of battle buildup followed by two back-to-back episodes of battle? I get the impression that this is going to be one long climactic battle, rather than a campaign against the Night King.

Okay so the episode itself.

This was a wordy one, and mainly in relation to people's personal relationships. Some of this was just a continuation of the reunions of the previous episodes. This is all well and good (although time is precious when you have 6 hours in your final season) but I would have preferred 10 less minutes of inconsequential talk, and 10 more minutes answering the big questions.

Such as...

• If this is the Lord of Light's battle... where is the Lord of Light? Who is his champion?
• What about the Night King's dragon?
• Why are you planning to charge the ranks of the dead with your cavalry? Feels like a bit of a waste.
• They have been focusing all their energy on making weapons that can kill white walkers, and being able to kill white walkers is important, but the vast bulk of their forces are wights. What's the plan to deal with them?
• Would it be wiser to just bring all your forces behind the walls?
• What happens if the Night King doesn't give battle, but just lays siege to Winterfell? Winterfell can sustain that bloated population for little more than several days.
• What happens when the dead breach the walls?
• Why didn't the truce with Cersei involve procuring some wildfire?

Benioff and Weiss as usual seem concerned with boring people, so would rather a quip from the Hound about throwing Beric over the walls than have him talk about a verified God who is heavily invested in the coming battle.

Can ground touched by dragon fire act as a ward against the dead, in the same way that metal tempered with dragon fire (valyrian steel) has magical properties? Can Bran warg into a dragon; can he potentially fight the Night King for control over the Night King's dragon? Can the Night King even approach the Godswood, seeing that it is an area imbued with some power from the Old Gods? Nobody here seems to care

How was the Night King defeated before? Bran must know.

Also is the Night's Watch literally only 2 guys now? Literally?!

But kudos for Jorah talking to his cousin. That was a nicely written and directed little encounter I didn't expect to see.

letowski

I liked the episode, I thought it built things up nicely.

Just one thing, I didn't think dialogue during the drinking scene in front of the fire was good. Yes Tormund is funny, and Brienne becoming a knight was cool, but the dialogue was too brash, with forced humor. I didn't capture the nervousness, sombre and apprehension before a bloody war which they are all likely going to die in. I would have liked if someone would have told a poignant story on the eve of battle.

I guess Robert's wish in Season 1, for his son and Ned's daughter to get together finally came true lol

Baggly

Loafing Oaf wrote:

I don't want to get into a pervy forensic analysis but the way the scene is shot screams body double to me...

Me too. I do agree. But Williams doing a nude scene wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility. She isn't the 14 year old she was when filming started (14 iirc)

Paddy Cow

The White Wolf wrote: »

Probably exactly that - to try and build a relationship with Sansa. Sophie was great in this episode, I mean everyone brought their A game in a character driven episode but Sophie really was wonderful.

I can forgive Dany's reaction to Jon anyway - it was basically her turn this week to see her world come crashing down just like it was for Jon last week.

Excellent episode laying the ground for the madness to come next week.

She really has come along way. In the beginning I liked Arya and found Sansa annoying but that's changed. Now I find Arya to be a one-dimensional, smug, pain in the ar$e and I won't be upset if she dies in battle. Sansa was brilliant the way she handled Dany. It's ok for Dany to take back her home but not ok for Sansa. Sansa is definitely the smarter of the two there. I hope she survives. I can't stand Dany at this stage. I'd rather see Cersei get the throne than her!

bnt

Maisie gave an interview to EW about the scene. On the one hand, there was no body double, but on the other hand she was in control of what was shown in the end after CGI.

“David and Dan were like: ‘You can show as much or as little as you want,’” Williams says. “So I kept myself pretty private. I don’t think it’s important for Arya to flash. This beat isn’t really about that. And everybody else has already done it on the show, so… “

On Reddit there were maybe a couple of commenters expressing some unease about the scene ... and far more commenters having a go at them for appearing to express any unease. :rolleyes:

Mr. Incognito

I thought it was a beautiful episode.

That and the previous episode will age much better by the end of the series when almost everyone is dead.

People are inpatient for carnage and instead should be appreciating saying goodbye to these characters.

Baggly

What was shown didn't upset me or phase me: and I think it's good she was allowed to control what ended up in there. Case closed I guess.

Baggly

Mr. Incognito wrote:

People are inpatient for carnage and instead should be appreciating saying goodbye to these characters.

I think when we reach the end we will be glad of these two episodes.

I am very impatient for things to get going but that has happened before with GoT and on rewatch it's there types of episodes that bring flavour to the action.

blackwhite

Was it just me, or was the Night’s King missing from the final shot of white walkers?

Whether he’s just overhead on his ice dragon,

or the theories about his plan to attack Kings Landing are correct remains

to be seen

Loafing Oaf

bnt wrote: »

Maisie gave an interview to EW about the scene. On the one hand, there was no body double, but on the other hand she was in control of what was shown in the end after CGI.

Does she explicitly say 'no body double' though? Maisie went on chat shows and swore blind Jon Snow was really dead after season 5, so she's not above being a bit economical with the truth when promoting the show...

RobbingBandit

Night King Seto Kaiba Vs Jon Snow(tbc) Joey Wheeler
Blue Eyes White Dragon Vs Red Eyes Black Dragon

Konami wants their cut HBO and George

Baggly

Loafing Oaf wrote:

Does she explicitly say 'no body double' though? Maisie went on chat shows and swore blind Jon Snow was really dead after season 5, so she's not above being a bit economical with the truth when promoting the show...

He was dead.

bnt

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Does she explicitly say 'no body double' though? Maisie went on chat shows and swore blind Jon Snow was really dead after season 5, so she's not above being a bit economical with the truth when promoting the show...

Does it even matter, given how airbrushed the scene was? All we have is what Maisie says in the interview, which I assume you have read.

VayNiice

PhuckHugh wrote: »

Was another slow burner but to be expected really - they have to build for the next few episodes as there is gonna be a lot of characters killed off and of course a few twists and betrayals a long the way. As someone who served in the FCA I can appreciate that calm / eerie feeling before battle when you question the ridiculousness of life.

Thanks for that, gave me a good laugh!

.......

I'm glad Arya got the ride. Considering how independent she is, fully in control of her own destiny.

Most women in it didnt get to choose how or who they lose their virginity to. So it's fitting for Arya to choose her own way.

Personally I think it's quite funny how many comments online are people a bit upset about it.

She's a woman. A very petite and young looking woman, but still a woman. Pity she didn't have a go on Podricks magic cock but he was too busy singing ballads.

.......

Where's Robin Arryn?

bnt

I see that in addition to the romantic angle, Jenny of Oldstones is relevant to the plot for a second reason: she created the prophecy of The Prince That Was Promised, the reincarnation of Azor Ahai. There are theories about who that might be, and they are not limited to members of House Targaryen.

rawn

letowski wrote: »

I liked the episode, I thought it built things up nicely.

Just one thing, I didn't think dialogue during the drinking scene in front of the fire was good. Yes Tormund is funny, and Brienne becoming a knight was cool, but the dialogue was too brash, with forced humor. I didn't capture the nervousness, sombre and apprehension before a bloody war which they are all likely going to die in. I would have liked if someone would have told a poignant story on the eve of battle.

I guess Robert's wish in Season 1, for his son and Ned's daughter to get together finally came true lol

I thought the forced humor was exactly what one would expect before a battle against overwhelming odds. They don't want to sit around and discuss death, they are trying to laugh in the face of impending doom, but failing somewhat.

rawn

....... wrote: »

Where's Robin Arryn?

Chilling with the Dornish army

RobbingBandit

He'll turn up soon just like ghost, Gilly and all the other write ins betting we even get to see that beetle smashing lannister cousin. Smash the beetles. Smash em.

PhuckHugh

Phileas Frog wrote: »

Phuck me, I've heard it all now... How many battles did you fight in in the FCA?? Being dug in on cemetery hill doesn't count.

More than I care to remember .... the bonds that are forged in battle are never broken. I saw those scenes re-created on screen last night and I'm not ashamed to say i wept in memory of my fallen brothers.

leggo

PhuckHugh wrote: »

More than I care to remember .... the bonds that are forged in battle are never broken. I saw those scenes re-created on screen last night and I'm not ashamed to say i wept in memory of my fallen brothers.

Who can ever forget the time that the Reserves fought zombies on O'Connell Bridge?? The Reeling in the Years is going to be epic.

PhuckHugh

leggo wrote: »

Who can ever forget the time that the Reserves fought zombies on O'Connell Bridge?? The Reeling in the Years is going to be epic.

Lest we forget.

EagererBeaver

People talking about "Sophie" and "Maisie" as if they're their mates. Lol.

Drumpot

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I thought it was a beautiful episode.

That and the previous episode will age much better by the end of the series when almost everyone is dead.

People are inpatient for carnage and instead should be appreciating saying goodbye to these characters.

This, I loved that episode.

To see the characters reunited and just thinking of their characters development. Cersies is the only character that’s really in the exact same spot physically and emotionally she was in when it started. Her character hasn’t changed one bit.

Everybody else has faught, moved on and are ready to die for each other. There really wasn’t anything I didn’t like about this episode. It’s the big breath before the plunge and I love it. 8 years building up to this, I’m delighted they aren’t rushing it and we get some time with our remaining heroes before the carnage.

RobbingBandit

Awful thought Winterfell is a red herring Night King is already in the skies over Kings Landing that's why we didn't see the south in this episode.

Drumpot

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Awful thought Winterfell is a red herring Night King is already in the skies over Kings Landing that's why we didn't see the south in this episode.

Is that not a good thought?

He could destroy the citadel and history of men so it might be possible.

Kunkka

I have a feeling Nymeria will return with a huge pack of wolves.

J. Marston

Lyanna Mormont riding a bear into battle with dragon glass fastened to its claws. Is it so much to ask?

Dave_The_Sheep

J. Marston wrote: »

Lyanna Mormont riding a bear into battle with dragon glass fastened to its claws. Is it so much to ask?

I now have this odd image of her going into battle on Jorah's shoulders.

.......

J. Marston wrote: »

Lyanna Mormont riding a bear into battle with dragon glass fastened to its claws. Is it so much to ask?

Not too much at all.

But if we get that I want Jaime's golden hand studded with dragon glass spikes so he can slap his way through the dead.

razorblunt

PhuckHugh wrote: »

More than I care to remember .... the bonds that are forged in battle are never broken. I saw those scenes re-created on screen last night and I'm not ashamed to say i wept in memory of my fallen brothers.

After a long and distinguished career in the FCA, my grandson asked if I was a hero.

“No’ I said, choking back tears ... ‘but I had some heroic weekend sessions with the boys”

duploelabs

Melisandre said that she, and Varys, would die on Westeros yet we're still to see her

Tazzimus

....... wrote: »

Not too much at all.

But if we get that I want Jaime's golden hand studded with dragon glass spikes so he can slap his way through the dead.

Jaime: "Make me a hand blade of obsidian"
Gendry: "What?"
Jaime: "T-1000 bitch"

RobbingBandit

J. Marston wrote: »

Lyanna Mormont riding a bear into battle with dragon glass fastened to its claws. Is it so much to ask?

Golden Compass says no.

Riddle101

ceegee wrote: »

Find it a bit funny the amount of comments online about Arya's sex scene.
Somehow her becoming a mass murderer, who cuts off her victims faces to wear, didn't weird people out but showing some arse and sideboob freaks them out

I found the comments strange too. She's a grown woman now and naturally she's going to be sexually active as all the characters of the show are. No better way to prepare for a battle I say.

....... wrote: »

Where's Robin Arryn?

I reckon he's back at the the Vale of Arryn. Jon and Dany will probably have to retreat to the Vale if Winterfell is lost next week.

On a different note. I hoping to see some proper interaction between Jon Snow and Jaime at some point. Remember in Season 1 when Jaime briefly spoke with Jon Snow about joining the Night's Watch. It would be a nice callback to that scene.

OneOfThem Stumbled

I'm guessing that the show isn't gong to ever comment on it , but I wonder whether the Dreadfort is manned. It, like Winterfell, is slap bang in the path from Last Hearth. The Night King could presumably afford to have some forces attack it at the same time.

That's one way in which Lord of the Rings had a better grounding for its sieges, as the characters talked about the plans of the enemy. Even when the enemy didn't have much of a speaking role (like Sauron) the heroes talked about their antagonists game plan, his motives, his resources, and his likelihood of victory.

The fact that the characters in GOT don't do this, and merely talk about how they are all about to die, makes it look as if they're resigned to defeat (though I don't think that's meant to be the take-home message).

In keeping with this desperate tone, Arya getting it off with Gendry actually fits. There's plenty of cases in history (for instance the pretty recent Battle of Berlin) where the atmosphere of impending doom made people pretty... promiscuous. When you think you're about to die, why not?

Which finally brings me to one last thing.

Arya is an assassin. She is essentially a faceless person. Despite the fact that the show has established that their enemy has the same weakness as the droids in the Phantom Menace, Arya's capacity in this regard hasn't been mentioned.

Arya could perhaps pretend to be Bran. Would that not work because of the Night King's mark? Maybe, maybe not. Could Arya pretend to be a wight, or even a white walker? Again, these are questions the characters should be asking. I'm all for an episode that is there to establish build-up, but this wasn't doing that - it was establishing emotional investment. While that's great, I think they could have done some of the other as well.

golfball37

She can only take the face of a dead person afaik

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

PhuckHugh wrote: »

More than I care to remember .... the bonds that are forged in battle are never broken. I saw those scenes re-created on screen last night and I'm not ashamed to say i wept in memory of my fallen brothers.

Thank you Sir, for your service to Eire.

razorblunt

golfball37 wrote: »

She can only take the face of a dead person afaik

Technically he’s not Bran anymore ... so maybe?


Presumably that’s the cowardly Glovers gone now too due to the throwaway “anyone north of here is gone now” line?

Sonovagun

The Night King is in for a shock when Bronn of the Blackwater attacks him from the rear!

RobbingBandit

I'd sacrifice my signed photo of Varys for a leak of episodes 3-6 the wait will be painful

Nerdlingr

I don't get why they left the most cowardly man in westeros to defend Bran. If Bran's right and the night king is coming for the three eyed raven, surely someone half decent in hand to hand combat would be preferable to an guy that has continually shat his pants and ran away.
Bran is the main target, their main asset and they left him pretty wide open to attack.
Everyone just agreed to it far too easily for my liking.
"I'll defend him"..."what, no objections?" Grand!

But I guess it fits theons redemptive character arc.

Baggly

Nerdlingr wrote:

I don't get why they left the most cowardly man in westeros to defend Bran. If Bran's right and the night king is coming for the three eyed raven, surely someone half decent in hand to hand combat would be preferable to an guy that has continually shat his pants and ran away. Bran is the main target, their main asset and they left him pretty wide open to attack. Everyone just agreed to it far too easily for my liking. "I'll defend him"..."what, no objections?" Grand!

Ironborn are decent fighters to have around as well. Think that Theon said they would be there helped smooth things over.

razorblunt

Presumably with a few other soldiers too, pretty much guarantees a death for Theon too.

rawn

Nerdlingr wrote: »

I don't get why they left the most cowardly man in westeros to defend Bran. If Bran's right and the night king is coming for the three eyed raven, surely someone half decent in hand to hand combat would be preferable to an guy that has continually shat his pants and ran away.
Bran is the main target, their main asset and they left him pretty wide open to attack.
Everyone just agreed to it far too easily for my liking.
"I'll defend him"..."what, no objections?" Grand!

But I guess it fits theons redemptive character arc.

He'll have all ironborn, Arya and the dragons too IIRC

Teddy Daniels

Deleted User wrote: »

I genuinely feel like I could have skipped these two episodes and missed nothing and be like in episode 3:

"Oh, Jon knows now. Cool."
"Oh, Jon can ride a dragon. Cool."
"Oh, Jon told Dany. Cool."


Quite similar to what I've already been doing having watched the two episodes.

"Oh, they must have found out about the ice dragon off-screen. Cool."
"Oh, Tormund describes what he saw off-screen presumably. Cool."
"Oh, Bran told Tyrion his story off-screen and now Tyrion is saying he thinks they'll survive. Cool."

What’s your favourite season 8 of a show ?

Nerdlingr

Pter wrote: »

Ironborn are decent fighters to have around as well. Think that Theon said they would be there helped smooth things over.

They are, but the iron born are all back with Yara on the islands. My surprise is that they picked Theon, or didn't reject his proposal, as a one man bodyguard for the most prized asset the living have.

Nerdlingr

razorblunt wrote: »

Presumably with a few other soldiers too, pretty much guarantees a death for Theon too.

He will? Oops. Missed that bit. Will have a rewatch!