Dehorning calves - take out bud?

Sami23

ABitofsense wrote: »

So are a majority of people leaving buds in now? Do you get many horns growing after?

I'm going doing the calves (LMx) this week and it would be alot easier to just leave the buds in. Father always took them out and it was alot of stress on the calf. He thinks i'm mad saying to leave them in. Plus with the old electric debudder dumped, it should be alot easier and quicker with the new buddex gas one

I thought everyone would take out the bud ?
I do anyway.
What way do others do it so

orm0nd

ABitofsense wrote: »

So are a majority of people leaving buds in now? Do you get many horns growing after?

I'm going doing the calves (LMx) this week and it would be alot easier to just leave the buds in. Father always took them out and it was alot of stress on the calf. He thinks i'm mad saying to leave them in. Plus with the old electric debudder dumped, it should be alot easier and quicker with the new buddex gas one

Haven't taken out buds in years it's unnecessary and causing extra stress to the calf

Guarantee you won't find the tiniest stag on any of the cattle here.

Sami23

orm0nd wrote: »

Haven't taken out buds in years it's unnecessary and causing extra stress to the calf

Guarantee you won't find the tiniest stag on any of the cattle here.

So what do you do and is it age dependant

Dunedin

orm0nd wrote: »

Haven't taken out buds in years it's unnecessary and causing extra stress to the calf

Guarantee you won't find the tiniest stag on any of the cattle here.

+100 on the above

893bet

Never take one out. Most important thing is that burner is red hot before you start.

I make sure it’s hot enough personally by rubbing over the calves hair. If the hair isn’t singeing/burning and smoking then the dehorner is not hot enough.

10-15 seconds a side and leave bud in. Silver spray. Job done.

2ml of local anest a side is a great job also. Cost is pittance and it makes the job a lot easier on man and animal, especially if you have sucklers and the calves are often 2-6weeks old. Pretty sure it’s a legal requirement also above 2 weeks?

patsy_mccabe

I do mine here by taking out bud. I also do them for 3 different neighbours and they all want them out. If I could just get away by not taking out the bud, it would be a lot easier alright.
I also put the tip back in after the bud is popped out, to ensure there is no bleeding.

richie123

Never take out the bud.
Deforming is hard enough on a calf without taking out the bud.
Never had horns or even butt's of horns when we used to dehorn calves

PoorFarmer

richie123 wrote: »

Never take out the bud.
Deforming is hard enough on a calf without taking out the bud.
Never had horns or even butt's of horns when we used to dehorn calves

I stopped taking out the bud a few years ago. Had a few with horns the first year but changed from electric to gas and no problem since. I always have a piece of pallet nearby to check the heat on the dehorner. If it doesn't burn a ring on the wood it's not hot enough

richie123

PoorFarmer wrote: »

I stopped taking out the bud a few years ago. Had a few with horns the first year but changed from electric to gas and no problem since. I always have a piece of pallet nearby to check the heat on the dehorner. If it doesn't burn a ring on the wood it's not hot enough

Same here or smoke a bit of straw with it.
I used an electric dehorner super yoke ...it glowed it got that hot.few seconds ringing the horn job done.

Sami23

richie123 wrote: »

Never take out the bud.
Deforming is hard enough on a calf without taking out the bud.
Never had horns or even butt's of horns when we used to dehorn calves

So what exactly do ye do if not taking out the bud ?

Is it just twist the dehorner around the bud for a certain time ?

If the calves are strong would you treat them the same as younger ones ?
Thanks

Dunedin

Sami23 wrote: »

So what exactly do ye do if not taking out the bud ?

Is it just twist the dehorner around the bud for a certain time ?

If the calves are strong would you treat them the same as younger ones ?
Thanks

Yes to both questions.

minerleague

orm0nd wrote: »

Haven't taken out buds in years it's unnecessary and causing extra stress to the calf

Guarantee you won't find the tiniest stag on any of the cattle here.

Any harm to ask what extra stress ( over restraining and using hot iron anyway ) taking bud out causes?. Take them out here ( adrenacaine and metacam used on all ) and taking off horn is just a flick of the wrist at the end. Funnily tried last year to leave one calf with the buds but muscle memory kicked in and had them removed almost without thinking!

Irish Beef

893bet wrote: »

Never take one out. Most important thing is that burner is red hot before you start.

I make sure it’s hot enough personally by rubbing over the calves hair. If the hair isn’t singeing/burning and smoking then the dehorner is not hot enough.

10-15 seconds a side and leave bud in. Silver spray. Job done.

2ml of local anest a side is a great job also. Cost is pittance and it makes the job a lot easier on man and animal, especially if you have sucklers and the calves are often 2-6weeks old. Pretty sure it’s a legal requirement also above 2 weeks?

Do you have any trouble getting the local anesthetic, vet wouldn't give it the last time I went looking for it. makes a huge difference if horns gone a bit strong,

richie123

minerleague wrote: »

Any harm to ask what extra stress ( over restraining and using hot iron anyway ) taking bud out causes?. Take them out here ( adrenacaine and metacam used on all ) and taking off horn is just a flick of the wrist at the end. Funnily tried last year to leave one calf with the buds but muscle memory kicked in and had them removed almost without thinking!

Its just not nesscessary.
Once you've cut the blood supply it will never grow.

tanko

minerleague wrote: »

Any harm to ask what extra stress ( over restraining and using hot iron anyway ) taking bud out causes?. Take them out here ( adrenacaine and metacam used on all ) and taking off horn is just a flick of the wrist at the end. Funnily tried last year to leave one calf with the buds but muscle memory kicked in and had them removed almost without thinking!

This idea that not taking out the bud lessens stress for the calf just isn't true,
Sure your going deeper to encircle the horn than you are to take the bud out.
Anyway anaesthetic should be used so the debate is irrelevant.
My vet always said to take the bud out because he sees cases every year where buds are left in and maggots set up home in them as they rot.

893bet

Irish Beef wrote: »

Do you have any trouble getting the local anesthetic, vet wouldn't give it the last time I went looking for it. makes a huge difference if horns gone a bit strong,

I didn’t last year. Bottle lasts a full year or so.

GrasstoMilk

tanko wrote: »

This idea that not taking out the bud lessens stress for the calf just isn't true,
Sure your going deeper to encircle the horn than you are to take the bud out.
Anyway anaesthetic should be used so the debate is irrelevant.
My vet always said to take the bud out because he sees cases every year where buds are left in and maggots set up home in them as they rot.

Haven't taken a bud out in years, no stumps or horns on any stock

Taking out the bud takes the head longer to heal, it's very sore on the calf imo

You only need to quarterize the veins

Lime Tree Farm

minerleague wrote: »

Any harm to ask what extra stress ( over restraining and using hot iron anyway ) taking bud out causes?. Take them out here ( adrenacaine and metacam used on all ) and taking off horn is just a flick of the wrist at the end. Funnily tried last year to leave one calf with the buds but muscle memory kicked in and had them removed almost without thinking!

Adrenacaine and Emdocam used here too, makes a huge difference in recovery time.

Buds always taken out, Alamycin spray

minerleague

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Haven't taken a bud out in years, no stumps or horns on any stock

Taking out the bud takes the head longer to heal, it's very sore on the calf imo

You only need to quarterize the veins

Does the bud fall off at some stage? I dehorn for a couple of neighbours ( elderly ) and they prefer traditional, hard to get them to use anaesthetic but refused to do otherwise. Hard to see any extra pain over the heat of the iron, thought they heal quicker with horn removed ?. Don't think I go any deeper than if I was leaving bud in. One thing I will say people leave calves too long before dehorning, even the limousin the horn is there if you clip around with a good scissors. One man leaves them too old , they be climbing the walls, pure hardship trying to get them in a crate etc.

RobinBanks

Lime Tree Farm wrote: »

Adrenacaine and Emdocam used here too, makes a huge difference in recovery time.

How much Emdocam do you administer. I use 2.5ml under the skin of Rheumocam but 2.5ml seems like a small dose

Lime Tree Farm

RobinBanks wrote: »

How much Emdocam do you administer. I use 2.5ml under the skin of Rheumocam but 2.5ml seems like a small dose

I give 2 ml SC. calves between 1-2 months. It gives pain relief for 3 days.
I read the SPC again yesterday and it's 2.5ml/100kg,

I pay approx €98 for 100ml, I presume the Rheumocam (meloxicam) is similar price.

patsy_mccabe

Would people think the blue Alamycin spray is better then the aluminium one?
I noticed a few of mine had puss coming from them afterwards . Neighbour said the same. All with buds taken out.

I used to use alamycin originally but then changed to aluminium, after watching a video from Teagasc or someone like that.

Gillespy

I think it is. Vet himself uses the blue spray. Bulls he vasectomised a month ago are still blue. I have seen the vet use our can of aluminium spray and he kept spraying for ages. Putting loads on is probably needed.

grassroot1

I used to use Charcoal wound powder when dehorning is it still available does anyone know?

endainoz

Don't take out buds either, but getting the calf when they're a bit younger helps things a lot, easier to control and don't need to hold the iron on them as long.

Jb1989

Gillespy wrote: »

I think it is. Vet himself uses the blue spray. Bulls he vasectomised a month ago are still blue. I have seen the vet use our can of aluminium spray and he kept spraying for ages. Putting loads on is probably needed.

blue spray first and seal it over with alu. Best of both worlds

patsy_mccabe

Anyone else finding it hard to get Adrenacaine? Vets didn't have it today.
Is it stricter regulations or just a shortage.

tanko

Vets seem to be having trouble getting lots of different stuff recently, was no metacam in my vets yesterday.

TooOldBoots

Don't agree with taking out the bud. Burn a ring around the bud, two twists of the hot Iron, no delay doing both horns. No need to burn a pothole in the side of their skull, once the blood vessels are sealed the horn cannot grow.
Release the calf job done.

patsy_mccabe

Well, my Express gas dehorner wouldn't work this morning. I was doing some calves for a neighbour and it wouldn't light. It was sparking but gas flow was way too low. I had a spare bottle but still no good.
He went to get another gas bottle in COOP and came back with a Buddex Gas dehorner. I used that and found it very good. Tip was very hot.

Anyway I opened up my dehorner and when I put it all back together, it's leaking gas. I changed the jet/filter inside in it, so I'm raging now that it's leaking. I don't think it can be repaired too looking at it.

So Have I to splash out another €200 ?

I've also realised now, how it gets blocked. The tiniest bit of dirt on the top of the gas bottle can block it. You have to keep the bottles clean and put the plastic caps back on when not using.