Dehorning calves - take out bud?

Limestone Cowboy

Parishlad wrote: »

Use a portable gas dehorner here too, think it's called Gas debuddex or something along those lines. Find it a great yoke. heats up very quickly. Never remove the buds here either. The odd one will have a little butt of a horn but I can live with that.

I have the gas buddex with a good few years too. Great tool.

PoorFarmer

Donald Trump wrote:

It's more horn she's after, not less

She might only do damage with a gas 1

50HX

Was brought up with an electric decor nervous,

That’s gave up a few years back, worked off the gas drum then until last year

Switched to the gel, have a small battery shavers, shave around the bud

Pea sized amount of gel on the tip of the budget

Locked into creep area for a few hours...job done

Very happy with gel but the trick is to do them as soon as the bud shows...varies from breed to breed

GrasstoMilk

We never take out buds here, about 60 calves per year. Never had any horns grow. Taking out the bud just causes unnecessary pain and it takes alot longer for the hole to heal.
Just ring around the bud, no bleeding and calves dont really notice. You'd fly through a bunch of calves in no time

keepalive213

Have some calves here which were done two weeks ago at around 14 - 21 days old.
They were done by the farmer I bought off, with an electric dehorner and removed bud.
I saw him do it. No bleeding, blue spray, happy days.
Yesterday I noticed a kind of crust around some of the holes, it looks like something is weeping out and solidifying. I don't think it's infection but am curious as to what it is.

patsy_mccabe

Well, I bought the Express Alios Gas Dehorner. I've done 8 calves with it so far. Find it a big improvement on my old electric one. Took out the buds completely too as an experiment.
I also started giving 3cc of adrenacaine on each side. Calves didn't even flinch with it.

Only downside I'd say is you're burning gas away waiting for the adrenacaine to take effect.

Mooooo

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Well, I bought the Express Alios Gas Dehorner. I've done 8 calves with it so far. Find it a big improvement on my old electric one. Took out the buds completely too as an experiment.
I also started giving 3cc of adrenacaine on each side. Calves didn't even flinch with it.

Only downside I'd say is you're burning gas away waiting for the adrenacaine to take effect.

We give the adrenacaine here to a batch, mark the first two or three to have got it and then set up the crate and start with them then. Saves a bit of time.

hopeso

Is a prescription required for adrenacaine?

patsy_mccabe

hopeso wrote: »

Is a prescription required for adrenacaine?

Just checked there. Ya, need prescription. I just picked a 100cc bottle up from the vets, €10.

Lime Tree Farm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Well, I bought the Express Alios Gas Dehorner. I've done 8 calves with it so far. Find it a big improvement on my old electric one. Took out the buds completely too as an experiment.
I also started giving 3cc of adrenacaine on each side. Calves didn't even flinch with it.

Only downside I'd say is you're burning gas away waiting for the adrenacaine to take effect.

Line them up in rotation for Adrenacaine, based on earliest tag numbers, then fire up the debudding iron. Though this does mean having to restrain then twice.

We use pain relief as well, Emdocam POM (generic Metacam), 100 ml bottle approx. €98 (1 ml/45kg, goes a long way). Guaranteed calves won’t even shake their heads or twitch their ears in pain the following days.

It’s a nerve wracking time, I must ask the Vet for his opinion on the debudding paste, that I have been reading about on this site. Genia paste for €19, plus P&P, to cover 30 animals (between 8 - 14 days old), sounds like an awful lot less hassle.

hopeso

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Well, I bought the Express Alios Gas Dehorner. I've done 8 calves with it so far. Find it a big improvement on my old electric one. Took out the buds completely too as an experiment.
I also started giving 3cc of adrenacaine on each side. Calves didn't even flinch with it.

Only downside I'd say is you're burning gas away waiting for the adrenacaine to take effect.

Took delivery of one of these myself this morning.... My first time with a gas dehorner....What setting does the gas flow need to be at? I assume full flow while it's warming up....but would less do after that, just to keep it hot?

patsy_mccabe

hopeso wrote: »

Took delivery of one of these myself this morning.... My first time with a gas dehorner....What setting does the gas flow need to be at? I assume full flow while it's warming up....but would less do after that, just to keep it hot?

Was wondering the same myself. I put it on full flow when heating up and down a lot while not using. Turn it up full again when using. Hard to know.
Use the square section in the box too to hold it. Very handy.
....and keep a spare can of gas too. don't want to run out with one horn done.:D

Dunedin

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

....and keep a spare can of gas too. don't want to run out with one hord done.:D

You might end up with a bull with two horns.

hopeso

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Was wondering the same myself. I put it on full flow when heating up and down a lot while not using. Turn it up full again when using. Hard to know.
Use the square section in the box too to hold it. Very handy.
....and keep a spare can of gas too. don't want to run out with one horn done.:D

I kind of expected a second can of gas to come with it, but there was only one. I have only 6 left for dehorning this year, so I should be alright. The electric one is there to fall back on, if needed. Can suitable gas be bought locally, or will I need to order some online?

patsy_mccabe

hopeso wrote: »

I kind of expected a second can of gas to come with it, but there was only one. I have only 6 left for dehorning this year, so I should be alright. The electric one is there to fall back on, if needed. Can suitable gas be bought locally, or will I need to order some online?

I think most farm stores stock them.
How do you find it compared to the electric one?

hopeso

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I think most farm stores stock them.
How do you find it compared to the electric one?

Haven’t tried it yet....it only arrived in the post this morning. I hope to get a chance towards the end of the week....

Lime Tree Farm

hopeso wrote: »

I kind of expected a second can of gas to come with it, but there was only one. I have only 6 left for dehorning this year, so I should be alright. The electric one is there to fall back on, if needed. Can suitable gas be bought locally, or will I need to order some online?

Snap. Mine was advertised as being supplied with 2 cans, only one arrived. I contacted the seller to send it on, which they did.

I don’t want to rain on your parade but I hope you have better luck with your express gas debudder than I had with mine (Express Ref 134/15 with Piezo ignition) purchased online Feb 2010,€188.
Within 2 years the piezo ignition was defective and had to be ignited using matches. Also it no longer heats up to effectively remove the buds. I even thought that the gas canister had lost pressure. Purchasing new cannisters made no difference. I even weighed the new cannisters to compare them.

I still have it in its case, no longer in use. I purchased the Mullinahone debudding iron with regulator, for calor gas. It’s way better, albeit admittedly more cumbersome.

Aravo

Gas is the only way. Buds are removed here and they always get a spray of Alamycin afterwards to the treated area.

The Rabbi

Check the nozzle for the gas.I have an old iron on calor gas and it often slows down,you will notice the sound changing and the flame reducing in intensity.I would have to put it in the vice and open it to get at the nozzle,pull a hair off me head(grey ones would be better if I had any)and use it to clear the jet.Same thing happened with cannister type .Also the ignition gave problems.But when it was dismantled and cleaned I got it working again. don't think that the ignition systems are up to the beating that they get with strong calves.

Lime Tree Farm

The Rabbi wrote: »

Check the nozzle for the gas.I have an old iron on calor gas and it often slows down,you will notice the sound changing and the flame reducing in intensity.I would have to put it in the vice and open it to get at the nozzle,pull a hair off me head(grey ones would be better if I had any)and use it to clear the jet.Same thing happened with cannister type .Also the ignition gave problems.But when it was dismantled and cleaned I got it working again. don't think that the ignition systems are up to the beating that they get with strong calves.

Yes I remember reading at the time, on other forums, to use fuse wire to free out the jet.

patsy_mccabe

Ya, I got a spare nozzle with mine. The tiniest of holes on the end. You would barely see it.
If the dehorner is not heating up, then it has to be reduced gas flow.

Lime Tree Farm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Ya, I got a spare nozzle with mine. The tiniest of holes on the end. You would barely see it.
If the dehorner is not heating up, then it has to be reduced gas flow.

I had another look at the device, looks complicated to me, I wouldn't dare dismantle it. I don't fall in to this category of "It Couldn't Be Done and he did it"

Somebody said that it couldn’t be done
But he with a chuckle replied
That "maybe it couldn't," but he would be one
Who wouldn't say so till he'd tried.
So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin
On his face. If he worried he hid it.
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
That couldn’t be done, and he did it!

Somebody scoffed: "Oh, you’ll never do that;
At least no one ever has done it;"
But he took off his coat and he took off his hat
And the first thing we knew he'd begun it.
With a lift of his chin and a bit of a grin,
Without any doubting or quiddit,
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
That couldn't be done, and he did it.

There are thousands to tell you it cannot be done,
There are thousands to prophesy failure,
There are thousands to point out to you one by one,
The dangers that wait to assail you.
But just buckle right in with a bit of a grin,
Just take off your coat and go to it;
Just starting to sing as you tackle the thing
That "cannot be done," and you'll do it

Edgar Albert Guest (1881-1959) Detroit Free Press columnist.

hopeso

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Ya, I got a spare nozzle with mine. The tiniest of holes on the end. You would barely see it.
If the dehorner is not heating up, then it has to be reduced gas flow.

I got the spare nozzle too. In a bag along with an O-ring. I didn't know what it was. I couldn't even see a hole!

hopeso

Lime Tree Farm wrote: »

I had another look at the device, looks complicated to me, I wouldn't dare dismantle it.

Mine came with fairly detailed instructions for taking it apart, and replacing the nozzel and thing that ignites it.... Maybe if you look at their website, the info might be there, or I'd say they'd send you the instructions if you contacted them....

patsy_mccabe

I'll just leave this here;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm02--HPtIM

Do you still have the spare nozzle.

Lime Tree Farm

Maybe there is hope for me yet.

I didn't get the spare nozzle or instructions with mine.

I managed to find this online just now

https://www.coburn.com/img/product/description/InstructionManuals/ExpressDehornInstr.pdf

patsy_mccabe

Lime Tree Farm wrote: »

Maybe there is hope for me yet.

I didn't get the spare nozzle or instructions with mine.

I managed to find this online just now

https://www.coburn.com/img/product/description/InstructionManuals/ExpressDehornInstr.pdf

Brilliant, that's great to have.

ABitofsense

So are a majority of people leaving buds in now? Do you get many horns growing after?

I'm going doing the calves (LMx) this week and it would be alot easier to just leave the buds in. Father always took them out and it was alot of stress on the calf. He thinks i'm mad saying to leave them in. Plus with the old electric debudder dumped, it should be alot easier and quicker with the new buddex gas one

Count Mondego

If you have a good gas one like Portosol you're as well off taking it out, done in a few seconds.

kollegeknight

ABitofsense wrote: »

So are a majority of people leaving buds in now? Do you get many horns growing after?

I'm going doing the calves (LMx) this week and it would be alot easier to just leave the buds in. Father always took them out and it was alot of stress on the calf. He thinks i'm mad saying to leave them in. Plus with the old electric debudder dumped, it should be alot easier and quicker with the new buddex gas one

I’d take them out personally. Didn’t get to on one last year and there was regrowth.