Antisemitism rising sharply across Europe

markodaly

Danzy wrote: »

Your digging yourself a hole with that post a chara.

Dig up.

Well, Killing Jews in front of their kids is OK I guess and he sure as hell is not anti-Semitic himself...right?

1641

Matt Barrett wrote: »

So you're just going to skip over responses and get back on song? Fair enough.
You'll miss Corbyn when he's gone and your far right pals turn attention back on the Jews. Israel might likely do okay though. It's always the everyday folk take the brunt.

Anti-semitism is anti-semitism. Whether it is far right or far left is secondary. Corbyn's Labour (and other leftie groupies) need to clear up the **** in their own back yard. The hard left has a long history of anti-semitism (as do the hard right).

“Finance capital and the banks, the hard core of the system of imperialism and capitalism had turned the hatred of men against money and exploitation, and against the Jews.”
“Auschwitz … meant that six million Jews were killed and thrown on the waste-heap of Europe, for what they were considered: money-Jews.” - Ulrike Meinhof, co-founder of left-wing terror group Red Army Faction

Danzy

1641 wrote: »

Anti-semitism is anti-semitism. Whether it is far right or far left is secondary. Corbyn's Labour (and other leftie groupies) need to clear up the **** in their own back yard. The hard left has a long history of anti-semitism (as do the hard right).

“Finance capital and the banks, the hard core of the system of imperialism and capitalism had turned the hatred of men against money and exploitation, and against the Jews.”
“Auschwitz … meant that six million Jews were killed and thrown on the waste-heap of Europe, for what they were considered: money-Jews.” - Ulrike Meinhof, co-founder of left-wing terror group Red Army Faction

Remember the Anarchists of the Revolutionary Cells, a German group, many of whom were linked to the Red Army Faction of Meinhof, separating Jews from non Jews on that hijacked plane.

This is not a new thing, it wasn't a new thing before Israel was created either.

James Brown

markodaly wrote: »

Not Anti-Semitic?

Lets have another look.
...

Talk about a Jewish New World Order.
Jews being the 'enemy of humanity'
Jews depicted with big hooked noses, and beards sitting around a monopoly board, I guess they must like the money?
Jews being depicted as the puppet masters of capitalism and crushing the poor.
And of course, the all-seeing eye, a conspiracy theory symbol that "Jews run the world"

Goebbels would have been proud of this work. Elders of Zion all over this.

If you cannot see this mural as Anti-Semitic, then the problem is really with you.

It's antisemetic if you buy into the Jewish stereotypes. It does make great commentary on the few controlling everything, as is the case.
The point is, people took offense and Corbyn apologised. What would you have him do about it?

James Brown

1641 wrote: »

Anti-semitism is anti-semitism. Whether it is far right or far left is secondary. Corbyn's Labour (and other leftie groupies) need to clear up the **** in their own back yard. The hard left has a long history of anti-semitism (as do the hard right).

“Finance capital and the banks, the hard core of the system of imperialism and capitalism had turned the hatred of men against money and exploitation, and against the Jews.”
“Auschwitz … meant that six million Jews were killed and thrown on the waste-heap of Europe, for what they were considered: money-Jews.” - Ulrike Meinhof, co-founder of left-wing terror group Red Army Faction

Not at all. It's pro-Israelis driving this IMO. We must fight against this Israeli propagandist bull****. Judge people on their politics not hearsay and pro Israel bias.

James Brown

Danzy wrote: »

Remember the Anarchists of the Revolutionary Cells, a German group, many of whom were linked to the Red Army Faction of Meinhof, separating Jews from non Jews on that hijacked plane.

This is not a new thing, it wasn't a new thing before Israel was created either.

Completely true, but Israeli's calling anyone against Israeli policy antisemetic is crap and does nothing for the memory and legacy of the holocaust or the Jewish faith IMO.

1641

[QUOTE=Matt Barrett;110674639]It's antisemetic if you buy into the Jewish stereotypes.[/QUOTE]


I hadn't thought of that. I suppose a bit like calling a black man "boy" would only be racist if you bought into racist stereotypes? Or calling a Muslim person "towel-head" would be Islamophobic ony if you buy into Islamic stereo types?


Everyone has get out of jail card. Or does it only apply to anti-semitism?

Odhinn

markodaly wrote: »

Not Anti-Semitic?

Lets have another look.

Talk about a Jewish New World Order.

It doesn't say "jewish"

Jews being the 'enemy of humanity'

Where?

Jews depicted with big hooked noses, and beards sitting around a monopoly board, I guess they must like the money?

There aren't classic stereotyped facial features in the poster

Jews being depicted as the puppet masters of capitalism and crushing the poor.

There's no visible reference to jews, no star of david, no jewish orthodox clothing, nada. Not even a yamulke

And of course, the all-seeing eye, a conspiracy theory symbol that "Jews run the world"

It's used as a symbol o the "new world order", not nessecarily ascribed to jews.

Tony EH

markodaly wrote: »

Corbyn is like Tommy Robinson

Look at him there. Just like Tommy.

Seriously, can you ejits even hear yourselves?

Danzy

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Completely true, but Israeli's calling anyone against Israeli policy antisemetic is crap and does nothing for the memory and legacy of the holocaust or the Jewish faith IMO.

I firmly believe there is a massive problem with antisemitism in the British Labour party and much of the European left, not really in Ireland.

I agree that Israel is playing a political game in regard to it as well, opponents of Corbyn are running with it for their own ends, some labelling things that are in no way anti Semitic as Anti Semitic. Personally I have no problem with Palestinians fighting Israel.

There is however no shortage of real anti semitism and the way it is handled and minimized by the party, has made it in to a significant crisis for the party.

Self inflicted and some made hay of it.

1641

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Completely true, but Israeli's calling anyone against Israeli policy antisemetic is crap and does nothing for the memory and legacy of the holocaust or the Jewish faith IMO.

I would guess that nearly every government in Europe has criticised some or more aspects of Israeli policy. That does not make them anti-semitic.

On the other hand the hard left anti-semites replace criticism of Israeli policies with a blanket black-and-white construal of the situation, with all the blame attached to their catch all term - Zionism (ie, Jews). This is the new catch all term for the evils of capitalism, imperialism, etc. etc. As one leftie proclaimed to a demonstation after the Grenfell Tower fire:


"This demonstration calls on justice for Grenfell. Some of the biggest supporters of the Conservative Party are Zionists. They are responsible for the murder of the people in Grenfell. The Zionist supporters of the Tory Party. Free, Free, Palestine!"

alastair

Matt Barrett wrote: »

It's antisemetic if you buy into the Jewish stereotypes. It does make great commentary on the few controlling everything, as is the case.
The point is, people took offense and Corbyn apologised. What would you have him do about it?

It’s worth pointing out that the banker figures are historic figures and only two of them are Jewish. The bearded fellah isn’t supposed to be Jewish - he’s supposed to be Andrew Carnegie. The freemasonry symbolism in the pyramid isn’t anything anti-Semitic either - it’s standard Masonic conspiracy stuff. The artist is undoubtedly heavy handed with the conspiracy dial and anti-capitalism narrative, and might well buy into anti-Semitic tropes too, but it’s by no means certain. Guilty of being clunky and a bit crap? Sure. Anti-Semitic? Maybe.

James Brown

1641 wrote: »

I hadn't thought of that. I suppose a bit like calling a black man "boy" would only be racist if you bought into racist stereotypes? Or calling a Muslim person "towel-head" would be Islamophobic ony if you buy into Islamic stereo types?


Everyone has get out of jail card. Or does it only apply to anti-semitism?

Nope. Not the same at all. If you can point to the part of the mural that specifies Jewish people please do. It's more akin to a mural of drunks and saying Irish people are offended.

Yet Corbyn apologised if he caused upset and denounced the mural and is still on the block.

James Brown

Danzy wrote: »

I firmly believe there is a massive problem with antisemitism in the British Labour party and much of the European left, not really in Ireland.

I agree that Israel is playing a political game in regard to it as well, opponents of Corbyn are running with it for their own ends, some labelling things that are in no way anti Semitic as Anti Semitic. Personally I have no problem with Palestinians fighting Israel.

There is however no shortage of real anti semitism and the way it is handled and minimized by the party, has made it in to a significant crisis for the party.

Self inflicted and some made hay of it.

I've yet to see any proof.

1641 wrote: »

I would guess that nearly every government in Europe has criticised some or more aspects of Israeli policy. That does not make them anti-semitic.

On the other hand the hard left anti-semites replace criticism of Israeli policies with a blanket black-and-white construal of the situation, with all the blame attached to their catch all term - Zionism (ie, Jews). This is the new catch all term for the evils of capitalism, imperialism, etc. etc. As one leftie proclaimed to a demonstation after the Grenfell Tower fire:


"This demonstration calls on justice for Grenfell. Some of the biggest supporters of the Conservative Party are Zionists. They are responsible for the murder of the people in Grenfell. The Zionist supporters of the Tory Party. Free, Free, Palestine!"

There are lobbyists who move in higher circles who support Israel. Some of them are hardcore and tagged as Zionist. That's not conspiracy theory. They laud over Trump in Israel ffs.

1641

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Nope. Not the same at all. If you can point to the part of the mural that specifies Jewish people please do. It's more akin to a mural of drunks and saying Irish people are offended.

Nope - not anti-semitic at all. The same as these were not anti-Irish as they didn't mention Irish people:




https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/01/28/irish-apes-tactics-of-de-humanization/

Odhinn

1641 wrote: »

Nope - not anti-semitic at all. The same as these were not anti-Irish as they didn't mention Irish people:




https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/01/28/irish-apes-tactics-of-de-humanization/

The face of the man on the left is one used for many years to portray irish as subhumans, so it does infact "say" he's Irish. If you read the article you linked you'd see that.

1641

Odhinn wrote: »

The face of the man on the left is one used for many years to portray irish as subhumans, so it does infact "say" he's Irish. If you read the article you linked you'd see that.

We are talking about images. Noone who saw this image would be unclear about its Irish reference. Ditto Corbyn's mural.

Tony EH

alastair wrote: »

It’s worth pointing out that the banker figures are historic figures and only two of them are Jewish. The bearded fellah isn’t supposed to be Jewish - he’s supposed to be Andrew Carnegie. The freemasonry symbolism in the pyramid isn’t anything anti-Semitic either - it’s standard Masonic conspiracy stuff. The artist is undoubtedly heavy handed with the conspiracy dial and anti-capitalism narrative, and might well buy into anti-Semitic tropes too, but it’s by no means certain. Guilty of being clunky and a bit crap? Sure. Anti-Semitic? Maybe.

Even so, it was still unwise for Corbyn to be seen anywhere near it in the first place.

More than likely he didn't vet the artist or the art before he stood in front of it and just went along not knowing the shitstorm some people would use it for.

Odhinn

1641 wrote: »

We are talking about images. Noone who saw this image would be unclear about its Irish reference. Ditto Corbyn's mural.

But the mural lacks the usual facial stereotypes, the clothing, has no stars of david, small or large, yamulkes or anything normally associated with identifying jews in an anti-semetic image.

James Brown

1641 wrote: »

Nope - not anti-semitic at all. The same as these were not anti-Irish as they didn't mention Irish people:




https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/01/28/irish-apes-tactics-of-de-humanization/

This is a cartoon commenting on Irish politics. Another poor comparison.

1641 wrote: »

We are talking about images. Noone who saw this image would be unclear about its Irish reference. Ditto Corbyn's mural.

Bull. It's literally got 'Roman catholic Irish' in the upper right hand corner.
Also it would have been referenced to an article or had a tag line. The mural referenced it's own contents, people bring to it what they will.

James Brown

Here is the complete cartoon:

You can see 'Sectarian funds', St. Patrick', 'Holy Cross' on the rounded items on the upper left.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

markodaly wrote: »

Corbyn is like Tommy Robinson, says they are not Anti-Muslim but their actions state otherwise.

Wow did he draw that. He’s talented.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Tony EH wrote: »

Even so, it was still unwise for Corbyn to be seen anywhere near it in the first place.

More than likely he didn't vet the artist or the art before he stood in front of it and just went along not knowing the shitstorm some people would use it for.

He thanked it. It’s a picture of 6 actual bankers, 4 Anglos, all caricatures.

Gringo180

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

He thanked it. It’s a picture of 6 actual bankers, 4 Anglos, all caricatures.

Corbyn is also the real father of Adolf Hitler.

James Brown

Gringo180 wrote: »

Corbyn is also the real father of Adolf Hitler.

TBF, he never said he wasn't and if he genuinely wanted to dispel such rumours he's get a DNA test done and post the results :rolleyes:

Tony EH

Gringo180 wrote: »

Corbyn is also the real father of Adolf Hitler.

That one's ackchyually true though.

markodaly

Matt Barrett wrote: »

It's antisemetic if you buy into the Jewish stereotypes. It does make great commentary on the few controlling everything, as is the case.
The point is, people took offense and Corbyn apologised. What would you have him do about it?

What tripe is this?

It is Anti-Semitic because it makes references to often old used Jewish stereotypes about money, conspiracy theories and power.

Here are some Nazi posters, I guess they too are not Anti-Semitic unless you buy into a stereotype, so they are grand really at the end of the day.








In a thread about the rise of Anti-Semitism, you guys are sure proving that there is indeed a problem with it as you cant see it right in front of you.

markodaly

Odhinn wrote: »

It doesn't say "jewish"






Where?








There aren't classic stereotyped facial features in the poster






There's no visible reference to jews, no star of david, no jewish orthodox clothing, nada. Not even a yamulke





It's used as a symbol o the "new world order", not nessecarily ascribed to jews.

A perfect example of whataboutery, deflection, and obfuscation related to the actual mural.

Well done, you sure as well painted your colours to the mast.

markodaly

Tony EH wrote: »

Look at him there. Just like Tommy.

Sure Hamas are a great bunch of lads. Killing Jews, Gays and other minorities are just something they just do sometimes.

Tony EH

markodaly wrote: »

Sure Hamas are a great bunch of lads. Killing Jews, Gays and other minorities are just something they just do sometimes.

LOL.


You said Corbyn was like Tommy Robinson.


You're a parody account that nobody could take seriously.