2019 All Ireland Senior Football Championship *Mod note: Post #1*

gormdubhgorm

Bonniedog wrote: »

Handy wins for Mayo and Kildare. Some close calls lower down for teams that will be glad of another chance. Offaly/Sligo. how would you price that!

Mon/Armagh only one that might have some consequence later on as winner will be looking at chance of super 8s.

Limerick (D4) v Westmeath (D2)

Derry (D3) v Laois (D2)

Any hope of any upsets there or are Limerick now solely a hurling county?

Derry v Laois will be interesting to see what happens.
I thought Laois did alright v Meath but could not sustain it - but Derry have home advantage and always have a few flair players.

rebel girl 15

The Dublin County board finances have been done to death in here - There are multiple other threads on it - any further discussion will see users given some time off. If you want to discuss it, find the other threads on it BUT NOT HERE!

gormdubhgorm

C__MC wrote: »

People seem to think once Dublin do or don't the 5 in a row, this utter dominance is at the end. People across the country are in for a shock. Dublin already have a new team ready to dominate as per the average age yesterday. Their structures and talent pool coming through is frightening I must add. Add this in with funding, facilities, personal involved. All of us on this forum are lucky to have seen historic leinster wins in 97, 03, 04, 98 and all Ireland wins in 02, 03, 98, 01, 12 and others.
Mark my words, we wont see novel provincial or all Ireland wins any time soon. The Government and GAA have created a juggernaut that wont be stopped any time soon

Kildare won the u20 title, Kerry won five in row minors.

I will go through the older fellas that will need replacing the the Dublin team in a couple of years.

Cluxton - (GK) aged 37 -
he will not go on until he is 50! - a GAA goalkeeping God - sweeper keeper - freetaker - master of kickouts - shot stopping
(loosing him will be a major change in Dublin's tactics)

Michael Fitzsimons (D) aged 31

Philly McMahon (D) aged 31 -
legend but it looks like he is being phased out

Darren Daly (D) aged 32

Cian O'Sullivan (D) aged 31 -
Important 'link man' keeps moves flowing.

Jonny Cooper (D) aged 29 -
Dublin's best man marker will be very hard to replace

Michael Darragh Macauley (M) aged 32 -
has dipped in form. Not the player he was.

James McCarthy (D) aged 29
- exceptional player and athlete

Dean Rock (F) aged 29 -
Could from play at times. But an exceptional free-taker, even under pressure.

Paddy Andrews (F) aged 30 -
Does very under-ratted hard work on the pitch

Kevin McManamon (F) aged 32 -
legend but his best days seem behind him. Legs slowing down.

Bernard Brogan (F) aged 35 -
legend but he surely does not have many years left.

Eoghan O’Gara (F) aged 33 -
Surely his last year? Offers the 'different outlet' for the high ball

So that is 13 players that will have to be replaced in the next few years or so.
Do you honestly think it will be a seamless transition?
How long will Jim Gavin stay, how will that effect things.

Farawayhome

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Kildare won the u20 title, Kerry won five in row minors.

I will go through the older fellas that will need replacing the the Dublin team in a couple of years.

Cluxton - (GK) aged 37 -
he will not go on until he is 50
(loosing him will be a major change in Dublin's tactics)

Michael Fitzsimons (D) aged 31

Philly McMahon (D) aged 31

Darren Daly (D) aged 32

Cian O'Sullivan (D) aged 31

Jonny Cooper (D) aged 29 -
Dublin's best man marker will be very hard to replace

Michael Darragh Macauley (M) aged 32

James McCarthy (D) aged 29
- exceptional player and athlete

Dean Rock (F) aged 29 -
Could from play at times. But an exceptional free-taker, even under pressure.

Paddy Andrews (F) aged 30 -
Does very under-ratted hard work on the pitch

Kevin McManamon (F) aged 32 -
legend but his best days seem behind him. Legs slowing down.

Bernard Brogan (F) aged 35 -
legend but he surely does not have many years left.

Eoghan O’Gara (F) aged 33 -
Surely his last year? Offers the 'different outlet' for the high ball

So that is 13 players that will have to be replaced in the next few years or so.
Do you honestly think it will be a seamless transition?
How long will Jim Gavin stay, how will that effect things.

Let's have a look at the team that started on Sunday:
Jack McCaffery - 25
David Byrne - 25
John Small - 26
Brian Fenton - 26
Brian Howard - 22
Niall Scully - 25
Paul Manion - 26
Ciarán Kilkenny - 25
Cormac Costello - 24
Con O Callaghan - 23

10 from the starting team all under 26.

joe40

Saw odds of 10 to 1 for Donegal to win the AI. Is it worth a tenner or am I just throwing money. ( I understand it is unlikely)

rebel girl 15

I've just deleted a load of off topic bickering post

Changes in the GAA Superthread

Take all your whining and complaining about Dublin to that thread and suggest what you think needs to be changed.

Note the warning on the first post

"Anyone taking other threads off topic, or taking points of view from this into other threads and cross thread posting will be carded and/or banned. Anybody soapboxing in other threads will be banned and a limited amount allowed on here"

This still applies - and anyone dragging this thread off topic will be banned until the end of championship

charlie14

Stoner wrote: »

I missed the start so watched Donegal and Tyrone on RTE +1

I thought Patton had a super game. Donegal battered them in midfield when J McGee went off and they still won most of the balls in. Murphy was outstanding. His ability to score and win most type of possession and for the size of him to be so influential all the way through, no tanking at 55 minutes

Brennan was great, went quiet for 15 minutes after getting a belt but came back into it.

I was early thinking many didn't give MH credit for being more adaptive, they were shocking today, particularly in the second half where nothing seemed to be addressed.
When Tyrone are beaten like that they can look terrible, they are not that bad but couldn't handle Donegal, they came at them from too many areas and won so many of the physical and football battles. Could any Throne player make a case for having a good game?

I think MH will have a difficult time now, a lot of the negative statements made about his style were demonstrated today. He'll have the qualifiers to address it, but who knows.

MH just does not seem to be able to make running repairs during a game. He set up defensively, but when his match ups were shown to be wrong he didn`t react until half time when the game was for all intents over.


Donegal pushed up from the throw in, forced Throne to go long with their kick outs and cleaned them out at mid field as well as winning 24 of their own 25 kick outs.
Donegal`s plan from the outset was to isolate Jamie Brennan and his marker and MH just stood watching while Brennan went to town. He also stood watching while his only plan up front to lump ball in on McShane, (a converted mid fielder), looking for knock downs from him to Donnelly while Donegal just nullified that by putting McShane in a McFadden/McGee sandwich and McMenamin put Donnelly in his pocket.



Not only did MH not react on the line, his players just didn`t react to what was happening either. Cavanagh, his most senior player on the pitch wandered around like a lost child watching all that as well as Ryan McHugh, Gallagher and McGrath running from deep ran them ragged as they stood off.

Bonniedog

Interesting point about Harte. It was same in AI final. Because of his record, you'd be kind of thinking, "Jaysus, this lad will have something up his sleeve." But he didn't.

Same yesterday. They just folded same as against Dublin. Donegal dominated the game for an hour, and were content to win without putting the foot on the gas once they had established a gap.

Tyrone look like a team that can demolish most others, but are incapable of coming back against one of the big guns. It was another proof too, along with Mayo, and Monaghan and Kildare that league this year meant absolutely nothing.

Smarter guys just ignored the mark and other experiments that they knew would be gone by Summer.

ToBeFrank123

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Kildare won the u20 title, Kerry won five in row minors.

I will go through the older fellas that will need replacing the the Dublin team in a couple of years.

Cluxton - (GK) aged 37 -
he will not go on until he is 50! - a GAA goalkeeping God - sweeper keeper - freetaker - master of kickouts - shot stopping
(loosing him will be a major change in Dublin's tactics)

Michael Fitzsimons (D) aged 31

Philly McMahon (D) aged 31 -
legend but it looks like he is being phased out

Darren Daly (D) aged 32

Cian O'Sullivan (D) aged 31 -
Important 'link man' keeps moves flowing.

Jonny Cooper (D) aged 29 -
Dublin's best man marker will be very hard to replace

Michael Darragh Macauley (M) aged 32 -
has dipped in form. Not the player he was.

James McCarthy (D) aged 29
- exceptional player and athlete

Dean Rock (F) aged 29 -
Could from play at times. But an exceptional free-taker, even under pressure.

Paddy Andrews (F) aged 30 -
Does very under-ratted hard work on the pitch

Kevin McManamon (F) aged 32 -
legend but his best days seem behind him. Legs slowing down.

Bernard Brogan (F) aged 35 -
legend but he surely does not have many years left.

Eoghan O’Gara (F) aged 33 -
Surely his last year? Offers the 'different outlet' for the high ball

So that is 13 players that will have to be replaced in the next few years or so.
Do you honestly think it will be a seamless transition?
How long will Jim Gavin stay, how will that effect things.

Most of those including Cluxton could conceivably go on for another 3 years, bar Brogan and O'Gara.
Andy Moran won footballer of the year at 34, Keith Higgins is still a starter for Mayo at 34 and plenty of players have won AIs in their early to mid 30s. I don't see Dublin quality dropping off any time soon, they have a perfect blend of youth and experience at the moment, and once the auld fellas drop off guys like McCaffrey will be there to fill the space. Dublin have mastered the assembly line, which is worrying for everyone else. Meath have been very good this year, the best since they won Leinster in 2010. If they get beaten by 10 or more points by Dublin in the Leinster final, then its safe to say Dublin will be unbeatable in Leinster for the next 10 years.

You can't really talk about the championship without talking about Dublin dominance, its the elephant in the room.

But for the rest, Cork look competitive and could surprise Kerry, as could Roscommon do a number on Galway. Donegal will win Ulster. But hard to see any of them touching Dublin. Possibly a Dublin v Donegal AI final.

Stoner

charlie14 wrote:

Donegal pushed up from the throw in, forced Throne to go long with their kick outs and cleaned them out at mid field as well as winning 24 of their own 25 kick outs. Donegal`s plan from the outset was to isolate Jamie Brennan and his marker and MH just stood watching while Brennan went to town. He also stood watching while his only plan up front to lump ball in on McShane, (a converted mid fielder), looking for knock downs from him to Donnelly while Donegal just nullified that by putting McShane in a McFadden/McGee sandwich and McMenamin put Donnelly in his pocket.

Great post. I genuinely believe that Donegal have a very smart team, I have them ahead of mayo now for the first time in a few years.

They know how to isolate a man or avoid certain areas of the pitch.

Donnelly, Cavanagh, Sludden when he came on are all good footballers but were made look very average, the matchups were great. I didn't see the Cavan armagh game, but the Donegal Tyrone game was imo the best performance from the line this year.

Without getting things back to Dublin, but from a footballing perspective, Dublin did a similar job on Cavanagh and Sludden in the past by getting the matchups right and not playing to their strengths, thing is on both days that lasted for the whole game, nothing changed at half time.

Bonniedog

Biggest factor in Donegal becoming contenders again is Paddy McBrearty.

Leaves them with a lot more options, and enables better use of Murphy who looked like he was having a whale of a time roaming about on Saturday!

A bit like Dublin, they actually thrived on Tyrone's reversion to primary defence by just pushing up, and once they had a lead, Tyrone were clueless about how to bridge it. If anything the margin flattered them.

gormdubhgorm

Bonniedog wrote: »

Biggest factor in Donegal becoming contenders again is Paddy McBrearty.

Leaves them with a lot more options, and enables better use of Murphy who looked like he was having a whale of a time roaming about on Saturday!

Throw in Brennan as well and they have real danger.
I was wondering if they have a bit of luck would they put it up to Dublin?

FrancieBrady

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Donegal will win Ulster.

Wouldn't be sure of that at all, having watched Cavan twice now. They could overturn them on their day.

Stoner

gormdubhgorm wrote:

Throw in Brennan as well and they have real danger. I was wondering if they have a bit of luck would they put it up to Dublin?

Definitely. They don't give a fiddlers about the Dubs either, they'll keep their heads up.

ToBeFrank123

The problem faced by Donegal, Mayo, Kerry, Tyrone etc is what is on the bench. All these teams have 1-15 as good as anyone, but what comes off the bench in the later stages of the championship can be the difference.

That and injuries to key players. If McBrearty and Murphy can stay fit they have a chance. Either of these pick up an injury and its curtains. And the same goes for the other AI contenders.

charlie14

Stoner wrote: »

Great post. I genuinely believe that Donegal have a very smart team, I have them ahead of mayo now for the first time in a few years.

They know how to isolate a man or avoid certain areas of the pitch.

Donnelly, Cavanagh, Sludden when he came on are all good footballers but were made look very average, the matchups were great. I didn't see the Cavan armagh game, but the Donegal Tyrone game was imo the best performance from the line this year.

Without getting things back to Dublin, but from a footballing perspective, Dublin did a similar job on Cavanagh and Sludden in the past by getting the matchups right and not playing to their strengths, thing is on both days that lasted for the whole game, nothing changed at half time.

I haven`t seen him on the line,and from what I`ve heard he isn`t interested in that end of management these days concentrating on the training field, but I`m getting the impression that when it comes to Mayo, Donegal`s gain is their loss in Rochford.


Actually on the point I was making, Dublin are a good example. Teams at the top level, even club teams, have leaders on the field too direct running repairs without waiting for word from the line. Dublin do it in double quick time when needed and appear to be trusted too by Gavin.
I am beginning to think, especially after Saturday evening, if MH either does not trust his players to do so, or that the rigid defensive regime he has had them playing for so long has left them unable to or simply afraid to make such changes without being dropped.

charlie14

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

The problem faced by Donegal, Mayo, Kerry, Tyrone etc is what is on the bench. All these teams have 1-15 as good as anyone, but what comes off the bench in the later stages of the championship can be the difference.

That and injuries to key players. If McBrearty and Murphy can stay fit they have a chance. Either of these pick up an injury and its curtains. And the same goes for the other AI contenders.

The Donegal bench is looking a bit stronger than last year, but I do take your point on Murphy and McBrearty.
Especially without being able to call on McNaillais. A massive loss imho.

ToBeFrank123

Meath look very good but a bit small and light and Dublin should push them aside handy enough. If Meath get within 10 points of Dublin, they can consider that progress and a good day out. That unfortunately is the benchmark now in Leinster.

I think Meath can still reach the Super 8s and possibly get into an AI semi final.

Re other contenders, I think Monaghan are in decline and their small pick is beginning to tell. They might struggle to make the Super 8s.

The championship has to have Mayo in the Super 8s, no-one does drama good and bad like them. Their games are box office for the neutral especially, everyone's favourite second team.

Kerry could struggle again in the Super 8s like they did last year. I think they might have a problem with strength in depth. Long gaps between games suits them as used to happen in the past. But ask them to play 3 championship games in the space of 2 or 3 weeks and they could struggle, mentally and physically. Its not something they are used to as they normally win Munster and don't have to deal with the qualifiers.

henke

Donegal have improved from last year which is a positive sign. Whether they would put it really up to Dublin I don't know yet but they have more firepower up front than Tyrone and Mayo and if they were to meet I think they would give Dublin more to think about than a Tyrone for example who were never really in with a shout in last year's final.

charlie14

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Meath look very good but a bit small and light and Dublin should push them aside handy enough. If Meath get within 10 points of Dublin, they can consider that progress and a good day out. That unfortunately is the benchmark now in Leinster.

I think Meath can still reach the Super 8s and possibly get into an AI semi final.

Re other contenders, I think Monaghan are in decline and their small pick is beginning to tell. They might struggle to make the Super 8s.

The championship has to have Mayo in the Super 8s, no-one does drama good and bad like them. Their games are box office for the neutral especially, everyone's favourite second team.

Kerry could struggle again in the Super 8s like they did last year. I think they might have a problem with strength in depth. Long gaps between games suits them as used to happen in the past. But ask them to play 3 championship games in the space of 2 or 3 weeks and they could struggle, mentally and physically. Its not something they are used to as they normally win Munster and don't have to deal with the qualifiers.

Outside of next years 8 Div 1 teams it is difficult to see anyone other than the two relegated teams this year making the Super 8`s.
They are starting to look like a plan to make the provisional championships an irrelevance.

gormdubhgorm

charlie14 wrote: »

Outside of next years 8 Div 1 teams it is difficult to see anyone other than the two relegated teams this year making the Super 8`s.
They are starting to look like a plan to make the provisional championships an irrelevance.

I think that's it.
Before I used to think that the Super 8's were a stupid - idea why not just make it a league?
But now I can see the cleverness of it the auld fellas making decisions at congress with gradually get used to it.
The provincials will be allowed to fade away slowly like the Railway Cup.

charlie14

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I think that's it.
Before I used to think that the Super 8's were a stupid - idea why not just make it a league?
But now I can see the cleverness of it the auld fellas making decisions at congress with gradually get used to it.
The provincials will be allowed to fade away slowly like the Railway Cup.

Starting to look that way, and Dublin`s dominance in Leinster is adding to that.
Not sure how the other provinces will view that but I can see problems getting it past Ulster. Ulster medals are looked on as only second to an AI by Ulster players

RoyalCelt

charlie14 wrote: »

Outside of next years 8 Div 1 teams it is difficult to see anyone other than the two relegated teams this year making the Super 8`s.
They are starting to look like a plan to make the provisional championships an irrelevance.

I see that too but they really need to let this new format become the norm for at least a decade.

charlie14 wrote: »

Starting to look that way, and Dublin`s dominance in Leinster is adding to that.
Not sure how the other provinces will view that but I can see problems getting it past Ulster. Ulster medals are looked on as only second to an AI by Ulster players

Ulster and Connaught. A Leinster without Dublin would be super competitive too. This sounds really messy but what if Kerry, Limerick, Tipp Clare entered connaught and waterford and Cork entered leinster. Give Dublin a bye to the super 8's or enter the first round of the qualifiers. You'd have 3 great provincials and Dublin still in the all Ireland and league.

pimpmyhat

RoyalCelt wrote: »

I see that too but they really need to let this new format become the norm for at least a decade.



Ulster and Connaught. A Leinster without Dublin would be super competitive too. This sounds really messy but what if Kerry, Limerick, Tipp Clare entered connaught and waterford and Cork entered leinster. Give Dublin a bye to the super 8's or enter the first round of the qualifiers. You'd have 3 great provincials and Dublin still in the all Ireland and league.[/QUO


Oh sweet lord.
Go to your GP first thing.

RoyalCelt

pimpmyhat wrote: »

RoyalCelt wrote: »

I see that too but they really need to let this new format become the norm for at least a decade.



Ulster and Connaught. A Leinster without Dublin would be super competitive too. This sounds really messy but what if Kerry, Limerick, Tipp Clare entered connaught and waterford and Cork entered leinster. Give Dublin a bye to the super 8's or enter the first round of the qualifiers. You'd have 3 great provincials and Dublin still in the all Ireland and league.[/QUO


Oh sweet lord.
Go to your GP first thing.

Yeah it wouldn't be my first choice change but I stand by my belief that the current format should be left be for a good few years before further change. Let the dust settle before the GAA do something potentially fatal.

gormdubhgorm

You know the way people are on about Dublin's dominance in this championship going for 5 in a row Sam's and 9 in a row Leinster's.

Back in the 70's 80's Kerry did 11 Munster titles in a row 75-86.

They also did a a 4 in a row of Sam's and 3 in a row of Sam's.

They even changed the rules back in the 80's as well to try and stop Kerry

"Remember, back in the early 1980s the GAA outlawed handpassed goals and made other changes to the rules
in an effort to put the brakes on Kerry's dominance of the All-Ireland championship.

- Pat Spillane

This was similar to the change that they made to try and curb Dublin/Cluxton with the kickout.

I suppose what I am trying to say is that it is not the first time a superb team has dominated Gaelic football.
The GAA survived it.

There also seems to be no one even considering the fact that Dublin might lose this AI - look at how good Donegal looked in thier last game.
Look who won the last three leagues Kerry 2017, Dublin 2018, Mayo 2019.
Dublin did not even reach the league final this year, and Westmeath won the O'Byrne cup.

I think there are signs bubbling underneath that it is not going to be easy procession to a 'five in a row' for Dublin that people think?
Plus even if they do the GAA will 'survive' it.
And people will have witnessed the undisputed best GAA team in the history of the game.
Plus (assuming they beat Meath) it will all have been done without the benefit of a 'back door'.

ToBeFrank123

Tyrone, like Mayo and Kerry in previous finals, made a great start last year and looked good to finally beat the Dubs. But they imploded, probably through nerves and inexperience. In the end Dublin went through a few gears and in the second half stayed in second gear.

That's the thing Dublin have the other counties don't have, the extra one or two gears to pull away. Its their bench in the main. They can afford to lose 4 or 5 players to injury or black cards and still have marque players to come off the bench. That and their nice blend of youth and experience as well as the most consistent free taker in the country.

Gaelic football is a numbers game. The more you have playing it at a decent level, the more the competition for places and eventually the cream rises to the top. But also, counties like Mayo and Kerry have significant geographical challenges, and couldn't for example have 2 training sessions in the one day. They also have players working and living outside the county.

I think bad decision making on the field and on the sideline is a massive problem for the chasing pack counties. Mayo for example rely on Hennelly as the backup long range free taker to O'Connor. This cost them against Roscommon. Hennelly is not a free taker, he's just too inconsistent. Doherty had a go for a while but is inconsistent. All I can say is Dublin are lucky Rock is always relatively injury free. And also players like Cluxton. The avoidance of injuries has been critical to Dublin's drive for five.

gormdubhgorm

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

All I can say is Dublin are lucky Rock is always relatively injury free. And also players like Cluxton. The avoidance of injuries has been critical to Dublin's drive for five.

That is a very good point actually, as Costello was out injured for long periods, Bernard Brogan is not as reliable as Rock.
If Rock was injured it could have made a huge difference.
Cluxton has not taken frees for years but if he was injured it would change Dublin's effectiveness and tactics dramatically.
There was worry last year among Dublin fans that Cluxton might call it a day, and there is no real replacement for the game he brings. Plus Comerford was only recently given decent game-time in the league this year. Before that he used to just sit on the bench and Cluxton started.
So a lot of Dub fans are still unsure about how Comerford would fare on the tense big championship games.

You are right in what you are saying about the Dublin subs as well, if lads are not playing well another will come on without weakening the side (more often then than not)

joe40

I'm far from a GAA expert but just a wee question about Dublin dominance of the inter county scene at the minute. Would it be fair to say that this complete dominance isn't reflected in the club scene for Dublin, which after all is the breeding ground for intercounty players. Corofin (Galway) and Gweedore (Donegal) competed for the club championship. Is this strange?

threeball

joe40 wrote: »

I'm far from a GAA expert but just a wee question about Dublin dominance of the inter county scene at the minute. Would it be fair to say that this complete dominance isn't reflected in the club scene for Dublin, which after all is the breeding ground for intercounty players. Corofin (Galway) and Gweedore (Donegal) competed for the club championship. Is this strange?

Not really. Individual clubs can have really good set ups which is what Corofin have plus their location and proximity to Galway city means they have a healthy population base which is topped up by commuters settling in the area. Again numbers is a factor. More players plus better coaching equals more success. Gweedore would be a bit of an outlier in that they've had a bunch of really talented guys arrive at once but not necessarily going to have the longevity of a Corofin who have been dominant in Galway for nigh on 20yrs.