Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

cgcsb

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Ardnacrusha cost about 20% of the state's annual budget at the time. It was a much, much bigger project in that regards even if the actual cost adjusted for inflation wasn't.

Yes, and it was an extremely brave move by the new state, which was in an extremely precarious financial position. Metro will be relatively a much smaller ask now, we even have the EIB on our side and numerous other mechanisms to insulate us from going tits up. But it'll require a type of political bravery that probably left Ireland sometime in the mid 20th century.

MJohnston

cgcsb wrote: »

When the time comes, I just can't see a minister signing a cheque of that size. Even motorway schemes (we know how TDs love a good bypass) are only built in small sections to avoid such big cheque signings.

Construction of Metrolink is due to take 5 or 6 years. There were still costs associated with Luas Cross City being included in 2018 capital spending, even though the line opened in late 2017.

There won't be a single "big cheque signing", I'm sure of that.

cgcsb

MJohnston wrote: »

Construction of Metrolink is due to take 5 or 6 years. There were still costs associated with Luas Cross City being included in 2018 capital spending, even though the line opened in late 2017.

There won't be a single "big cheque signing", I'm sure of that.

It's just an expression, I'm sure it wont be a cheque either in this day and age. The point is someone has to sign the order and commit to spend that much money. I hope it does happen, but am skeptical.

marno21

It also is likely Metrolink will be delivered as a PPP, meaning even less upfront exchequer spending.

MJohnston

cgcsb wrote: »

It's just an expression, I'm sure it wont be a cheque either in this day and age. The point is someone has to sign the order and commit to spend that much money. I hope it does happen, but am skeptical.

My point really is just that it's still spread over 6 or more years - so the annual cost won't necessarily be a huge portion of the capital expenditure.

cgcsb

I hope that I'm wrong and that construction starts in the next 2 years. Certainly the general public seem to believe it's happening, have a look at how property prices in Ballymun have shot up in the last few months, contrary to a trend of decreasing asking prices across the city.

D.L.R.

cgcsb wrote: »

I hope that I'm wrong and that construction starts in the next 2 years. Certainly the general public seem to believe it's happening, have a look at how property prices in Ballymun have shot up in the last few months, contrary to a trend of decreasing asking prices across the city.

Its more likely to happen now than it was in 2007 imo.

That's still no guarantee though, we've yet to actually deliver on this scale.

cgcsb

D.L.R. wrote: »

Its more likely to happen now than it was in 2007 imo.

That's still no guarantee though, we've yet to actually deliver on this scale.

I agree, in 2007 we were facing into a financial crisis of unprecedented scale and the state had considerably over stretched it's self on a bloated civil service and welfare state, whereas I don't think that's the case now, even with an economic shock from Brexit, the scale of the impact is likely to be only a fraction of 2008, mostly impacting agriculture, a mere 5% of the economy. So yes I think it's more likely now than ever before and it would really make me happy to see the dig starting in my lifetime.

Grandeeod

Stephen15 wrote: »

Looks like the closest we've got to shovels in ground so far. Hopefully it won't be the closest we'll get.

We had bore holes for Metro North in Parnell Square. Means nothing.

cgcsb wrote: »

When the time comes, I just can't see a minister signing a cheque of that size. Even motorway schemes (we know how TDs love a good bypass) are only built in small sections to avoid such big cheque signings.

I can't think of such a large single item of infrastructure getting funded in the past. Maybe Ardnacrusha was the last time we spent that much (adjusting for inflation??)

The childrens hospital comes close, and that's a political hot potatoe. The National broadband plan costs about the same and that has effectively been binned.

We'll sign cheques for hospitals. They are still vote winners. Despite all the baloney we read and look at in the media, PT is not an issue to down a Government or elect one.

marno21 wrote: »

It also is likely Metrolink will be delivered as a PPP, meaning even less upfront exchequer spending.

PPPs are still vunerable to economic changes. Our open economy is facing uncertainty.

L1011

There were some enabling works for Metro North so reign in the excitement!

bk

Grandeeod wrote: »

We'll sign cheques for hospitals. They are still vote winners. Despite all the baloney we read and look at in the media, PT is not an issue to down a Government or elect one.

The pressure for public transport comes from a different quarter. It comes from the states biggest employers. You can be certain that the likes of Google, Facebook, Apple and big financial companies have high level meetings with members of the cabinet where they tell them in no uncertain terms that if they want them to continue to bring thousands of jobs to Ireland, that they need to sort public transport (and housing).

Sam Russell

Mod: Can we refrain from going off topic. No San Fran, no Soviet nonsense, just Metrolink - Swords to Charlemont. Thank you.

Off topic posts will be deleted.

JeffK88

Not the best picture but seem to be doing ground investigation works in the area for the planned Airport Station. Area cordoned off plus that truck in the middle

Equium

There are also Metrolink ground investigations underway towards the East End of Trinity.

Grandeeod

bk wrote: »

The pressure for public transport comes from a different quarter. It comes from the states biggest employers. You can be certain that the likes of Google, Facebook, Apple and big financial companies have high level meetings with members of the cabinet where they tell them in no uncertain terms that if they want them to continue to bring thousands of jobs to Ireland, that they need to sort public transport (and housing).

You're speculating. There is absolutely no evidence to back up your post.

BonnieSituation

Equium wrote: »

There are also Metrolink ground investigations underway towards the East End of Trinity.

And across from the National Concert Hall.

bk

Grandeeod wrote: »

You're speculating. There is absolutely no evidence to back up your post.

Sure I am... :rolleyes:

Grandeeod

bk wrote: »

Sure I am... :rolleyes:

Hang on a second. No need for rolling the eyes. You claimed that employers such as Google etc. are having high level meetings with the cabinet and telling them in no uncertain terms to get on with building large scale PT projects and in the contest of this thread, Metrolink. Show some evidence of that kind of big talk. If you can't, then perhaps you should stop filling the thread and contributers with false hope.

jd

Grandeeod wrote: »

Hang on a second. No need for rolling the eyes. You claimed that employers such as Google etc. are having high level meetings with the cabinet and telling them in no uncertain terms to get on with building large scale PT projects and in the contest of this thread, Metrolink. Show some evidence of that kind of big talk. If you can't, then perhaps you should stop filling the thread and contributers with false hope.

To be fair, Dublin Chamber have certainly been pushing for these
http://www.dublinchamber.ie/about/council-members

Grandeeod

jd wrote: »

To be fair, Dublin Chamber have certainly been pushing for these
http://www.dublinchamber.ie/about/council-members

Dublin Chamber aren't the Cabinet.

I understand that the pressure to provide better public transport like Metrolink comes from various quarters. However without evidence, I refuse to accept claims that the Apple's, Microsofts, Facebooks and Googles of this world are banging down the door of Leinster House to ensure that the Government builds them.

jd

Grandeeod wrote: »

Dublin Chamber aren't the Cabinet.

I know that. What I'm saying is that they do make representations to government on behalf of their members.

Grandeeod

jd wrote: »

I know that. What I'm saying is that they do make representations to government on behalf of their members.

A tidy towns committee can make representations to Government. It's a big leap to say these huge multinationals or Dublin Chamber are having high level chats with the Cabinet about Metrolink.

bk

https://www.breakingnews.ie/business/apple-ceo-tim-cook-in-cork-to-open-new-hollyhill-expansion-849777.html

https://www.joe.ie/news/facebook-jobs-ireland-605403

I could go on all day...

Of course these are just the photo-ops at the top level. Of course Tim Cook isn't getting into the nitty gritty of Metrolink station locations with Leo. But local company management and visiting company VP's are constantly meeting with government departments, Enterprise Ireland and government ministers. You really don't think these companies employ thousands in Ireland and don't have a constant input!

ricimaki

Companies in Limerick were having discussions with local councillors and TDs (including the minister for finance at the time) about building the M20. There were no public announcements or news articles, but at internal meetings in the companies, it certainly was mentioned. I'd be amazed if this wasn't happening in Dublin...

Grandeeod

bk wrote: »

https://www.breakingnews.ie/business/apple-ceo-tim-cook-in-cork-to-open-new-hollyhill-expansion-849777.html

https://www.joe.ie/news/facebook-jobs-ireland-605403

I could go on all day...

Of course these are just the photo-ops at the top level. Of course Tim Cook isn't getting into the nitty gritty of Metrolink station locations with Leo. But local company management and visiting company VP's are constantly meeting with government departments, Enterprise Ireland and government ministers. You really don't think these companies employ thousands in Ireland and don't have a constant input!

In terms of PT and Metrolink? No I don't. But keep searching and go all day, by all means. The links so far are mere candyfloss.

These companies are here for a variety of reasons. You know that. It's mainly based on taxation. Once people don't vote based on PT, there are always people who will tolerate anything to have a job/wage etc. etc. Ireland's PT/housing crisis will not upset any of the multinationals once they are happy with the taxation policy and an ever ending workforce supply willing to accept poor PT/housing and that's what they are doing right now and have done for many years. If you think any of them are rocking up to Leo's office demanding this and that, you are deluded. We wouldn't be the crapfest we're in if they cared that much.

Until Governments fall or are created based on PT decisions (even partly), you can kiss your ass goodbye to any progress.. Your opinion is decent and I wish it was true, but it's just an opinion with no evidence.

AlmightyCushion

bk wrote: »

https://www.breakingnews.ie/business/apple-ceo-tim-cook-in-cork-to-open-new-hollyhill-expansion-849777.html

https://www.joe.ie/news/facebook-jobs-ireland-605403

I could go on all day...

Of course these are just the photo-ops at the top level. Of course Tim Cook isn't getting into the nitty gritty of Metrolink station locations with Leo. But local company management and visiting company VP's are constantly meeting with government departments, Enterprise Ireland and government ministers. You really don't think these companies employ thousands in Ireland and don't have a constant input!

These same companies are located in Silicon Valley which is far, far worse than Dublin for public transport and house prices.

Also, those links actually contradict your previous post. Your previous post stated that these companies are telling the government "in no uncertain terms that if they want them to continue to bring thousands of jobs to Ireland, that they need to sort public transport (and housing)".

Yet housing and public transport still haven't been sorted and they are announcing thousands of job. We've seen Metrolink and BusConnects get delayed and these companies are still continuing to bring jobs here. That doesn't sound like "no uncertain terms" to me.

Believe me, I wish they were as it might cause the government to prioritise housing and public transport more but I just can't see it.

Dats me

You could make the "until Government falls on *insert issue*" about anything. Transport affects everyone, in Dublin people talk about Dublin Bus, Luas and DART all the time.

This Government is literally going to fall on Housing. The HSE is in a wreck but it's not bringing down the Government, yet health still got €17bn this year - weird!

I've never heard of a government recently getting voted in or out because of Education - yet it still got well over €10bn!

You're also forgetting a huge point, which is that Fine Gael is getting absolutely wiped on Climate Change, it's going to be very hard to stall on projects now. Of course cheap cycling infrastructure is easier than ten figure projects but I don't think the doom and gloom as if we're in car loving early 2000s is warranted.

blackwhite

Grandeeod wrote: »

Dublin Chamber aren't the Cabinet.

I understand that the pressure to provide better public transport like Metrolink comes from various quarters. However without evidence, I refuse to accept claims that the Apple's, Microsofts, Facebooks and Googles of this world are banging down the door of Leinster House to ensure that the Government builds them.

The redesign of the Brewery Road/Leopardstown Road/Burton Hall Road/South County Business Park junction to remove the roundabout and replace it with a traffic light controlled junction and a new entrance to South County Business Park was a direct result of demands made by Microsoft.

Grandeeod

blackwhite wrote: »

The redesign of the Brewery Road/Leopardstown Road/Burton Hall Road/South County Business Park junction to remove the roundabout and replace it with a traffic light controlled junction and a new entrance to South County Business Park was a direct result of demands made by Microsoft.

Totally irrelevant and not on topic. I'm waiting to see evidence of these high level meetings between multinationals and the cabinet that discuss the provision of Metrolink.

marno21

Looking at infrastructure around Apple in Cork demonstrates how effective any lobbying would be.

Shambolic around there