What would you do

Mrsmum

First of all I would like to say I find it amazing that the 8 year old did not have a relative there during training. Way too young to be at something without family (or family substitute) supervision. All mine have done GAA and other sports and at that age parents attend,not just drop and go. The coach is there to train, who is supposed to be watching the child if he needed the toilet and then set off home or anything.

Regarding the incident, I wouldn't automatically believe a child, even as a parent I've seen the kids blatantly tell porkies or retell stories portraying themselves as butter wouldn't melt, completely at variance with the truth. But I wouldn't automatically disbelieve them either so I personally would go to the coach and discuss, basically marking his card and letting him know I'd be watching him.

Plumbthedepths

farmchoice wrote:

he is a brilliant coach, the kids love him, he has a great natural way with kids, his own son is in the group. not many people have the personality to pull that kind of off, i certainly dont but when you asked the kids he coaches he would be their favorite across all the sports.

Kicking kids and verbal abuse are not the hallmarks of a brilliant coach despite your claims to the contrary.

jlm29

JustJoe7240 wrote: »

Of course not. I'm questioning whether it happened at all, Not the motive for doing so. The testimony of an 8 year old is all I can see as proof.

Many many children in this history of this country have been abused. They didn’t think to get a DNA sample, or cctv on their way out. When they went and told their parents, if they had the courage to do so, they were told to be quiet, don’t be ridiculous, the teacher/priest/neighbour (whatever) wouldn’t possibly do that. So it went on and on for years. I’m not comparing someone who may or may not call names or push a child over to a paedophile, but just because the person who says it happened Is a child, that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Children aren’t insignificant people who should put up with everything that comes their way and take it as normal. Sometimes it’s correct, sometimes it might be false- that happens with adults too, but people should check.

For what the OPs child is saying is correct, I would expect that other people have noticed. Other people will also think it wrong. No one is saying he should go and report the coach to the guards, but a quick word in someone’s ear, and maybe sitting in on more training sessions will certainly not be overkill

Hal3000

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

This person you refer to has no business coaching kids tbh.

Christ Almighty.

I remember my old soccer coach F'ing and blinding when I made a mistake. I was also probably only around 8 or 9. Did me no harm, especially when the opposing players did and said far worse. GAA / Soccer are physical sports and this kind of carry on has always been around. If we watch every single thing a coach does and says then we might as well call it a day. I don't agree with any physical contact from a coach, but the odd brash comment now and again is not going to cause any long term damage.

Plumbthedepths

Hal3000 wrote:

I remember my old soccer coach F'ing and blinding when I made a mistake. I was also probably only around 8 or 9. Did me no harm, especially when the opposing players did and said far worse. GAA / Soccer are physical sports and this kind of carry on has always been around. If we watch every single thing a coach does and says then we might as well call it a day. I don't agree with any physical contact from a coach, but the odd brash comment now and again is not going to cause any long term damage.

So you missed the bit where he described the coach kicking the kids? Christ why can't people read a comment before they jump?

farmchoice

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Kicking kids and verbal abuse are not the hallmarks of a brilliant coach despite your claims to the contrary.

except i didn't say he verbally abuses them, i would have thought it was obvious enough from my post that he has a great way with kids and they love the way he interacts with them.
yet you see it as he is kicking them and abusing them. as if parent would have there kids in such a place.

Charles Ingles

We will be left with nobody willing to coach children if all the whingers get their way.
Bring your kids to training stay with them support the coach who is s volunteer.
Or else put him into Irish dancing or drama where he will treated nice.

Plumbthedepths

farmchoice wrote:

except i didn't say he verbally abuses them, i would have thought it was obvious enough from my post that he has a great way with kids and they love the way he interacts with them. yet you see it as he is kicking them and abusing them. as if parent would have there kids in such a place.

So randomly curses at them and calls them names? But according to you this is not verbal abuse? Really?

farmchoice

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

So randomly curses at them and calls them names? But according to you this is not verbal abuse? Really?

thats right because I'm there and see it and have repeatedly explained that he has a great way with kids, is a great coach and and the kids love him.
i used him as an example to illustrate that people are different methods and personalities are different .



yet you, someone who has never met him continues to suggest he is abusive and shouldn't be around kids.


its this type of tin eared knee jerk reaction to bits of posts that often causes discussions to descend into such black and white positions so quickly,no obvious consideration of the possible subtly of a situation just wild reaction without any obvious attempted understanding.



you see he might say to a kid ''here spud you're one fast bastard but if you dont sit down ill give you 10 press ups, that will keep you in one spot'' and little mr murphy would love it.

where as another coach might say paul Murphy please stop running around and sit down while i speak or you will have to sit out from the next game. in this case the lad might be more hurt then above because of the tone and perceived the threat.

Ave Sodalis

farmchoice wrote:

you see he might say to a kid ''here spud you're one fast bastard but you you dont sit down or ill give you 10 press ups, that will keep you in one spot'' and little mr murphy would love it.

I think what you describe here and what the other poster thinks you are saying, or even what the OP is describing, is slightly different. That's more bantery, and a different ball game (see what I did there) to someone going "oi, you little bastard. Sit the f*ck down or I'll f*cking sit you down", or in the case of making a mistake as I have witnessed in the past: "jesus f*cking h christ, what sort of f*cking idiot are you! Could you not see x was open?" in a very angry tone.

farmchoice

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

I think what you describe here and what the other poster thinks you are saying, or even what the OP is describing, is slightly different. That's more bantery, and a different ball game (see what I did there) to someone going "oi, you little bastard. Sit the f*ck down or I'll f*cking sit you down", or in the case of making a mistake as I have witnessed in the past: "jesus f*cking h christ, what sort of f*cking idiot are you! Could you not see x was open?" in a very angry tone.

absoutly, that was my point, the same word or words delivered in a different way can have very different effects on a child, and it doesn't matter so much what the words are. a bantery curse and kick in the arse can be a lot less hurtful then a slightly stern and disapproving ''please sit down''



the same could be said of demonstrating how to hit an opponent a shoulder or preform a tackle. with one coach he hits you a shoulder and you get up laughing with another he he does it and you go home crying.
and it might be the same coach doing the same thing with 2 different kids one gets up laughing one goes home crying.


but i really really doubt its case of an an abusive coach purposely trying to knock over kids and hurt their feelings.

nikkibikki

Charles Ingles wrote: »

We will be left with nobody willing to coach children if all the whingers get their way.
Bring your kids to training stay with them support the coach who is s volunteer.
Or else put him into Irish dancing or drama where he will treated nice.

Plenty people can coach children without resorting to swearing and pushing. I know of people who would love to coach but they don't agree with the harsh nature of the current coaches and would rather not get involved with them.

Tombo2001

Hal3000 wrote: »

As a parent of 2 kids I think coaches shouting at the children calling them F*ckin edjits is not such a big deal. It can help prepare them for the tough road ahead. However, pushing a kid to the ground is a step too far.

As a parent of 3 kids who also mentors GAA, I think its absolutely bananas.

Tombo2001

Mrsmum wrote: »

First of all I would like to say I find it amazing that the 8 year old did not have a relative there during training. Way too young to be at something without family (or family substitute) supervision. All mine have done GAA and other sports and at that age parents attend,not just drop and go. The coach is there to train, who is supposed to be watching the child if he needed the toilet and then set off home or anything.

Regarding the incident, I wouldn't automatically believe a child, even as a parent I've seen the kids blatantly tell porkies or retell stories portraying themselves as butter wouldn't melt, completely at variance with the truth. But I wouldn't automatically disbelieve them either so I personally would go to the coach and discuss, basically marking his card and letting him know I'd be watching him.

Thats fine in theory, we'd all agree with that lofty sentiment.

What happens in practice when you have more than one child and Child A has to be here and Child B has to be there? Which is the case for a lot of families and a lot of kids.

What you've described is A1 for people with a single child or maybe two kids. Not if you have four kids.

Your other point is well made - too often coaching actually turns out to be glorified child minding. Fair enough if you have to drop your kid, since the other child has to be somewhere else. Quite another - as I very frequently see - that you drop the child and head down to the coffee shop for an hour.

Parents can be very judgmental about couches - who are quite literally other parents giving up their time to coach/ mind your kids, for free.

Thats a very different conversation to this one however.

Charles Ingles

nikkibikki wrote: »

Plenty people can coach children without resorting to swearing and pushing. I know of people who would love to coach but they don't agree with the harsh nature of the current coaches and would rather not get involved with them.

Gaa is physical game.
On the picth is quite tough kids have to be prepared for that.

drunkmonkey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsEiGqEEKwc

Tombo2001

farmchoice wrote: »

if a coach or anyone else simply pushed a child to the ground and shouted abuse at them them you dont need to be asking anyone on a discussion board what to do.


on the other hand most of us here or at least those of us who coach ourselves or have kids in various sports know well there is more to this story then meets the eye.



i truly believe that anyone who has kids should themselves volunteer with at least one club or society, it gives a great insight into what its like and how much it involves, it will give you a new perspective on it, and have no doubt it doesn't matter what sport or club it is they will take your help even if you have never played the sport never acted never danced, whatever. every club in the county is short of volunteers, and will bite your hand off for help. because unfortunately there are 10 parents who will stand on the sideline and snipe for every one who will walk onto the pitch and help.

Overall this was a very good post.

Point A - completely agree with.

Point B - nope, dont really buy into the 'there's two sides to every story' viewpoint.

If the coach aggressively pushed the child to ground - which is what OP said - then there is only one side to the story.

There is nothing that would justify it or be an excuse for it, except maybe maybe if said child had aggressively attacked another child, and coach was splitting them up.....and that didnt happen here.

Point C - its a different conversation, but I have (as a mentor) noted that (i) I have become a lot more appreciative of mentors since I started mentoring myself and (ii) the most critical and entitled parents tend to be those who dont do much to help out themselves......again though, very different discussion.

Tombo2001

spurious wrote: »

The kids are 8 ffs. It should be about having fun and enjoying the game. Skills can come later. Not catching the ball correctly...Jesus wept.

No - its both.

Absolutely they have to enjoy it. That is the number one thing.

And the thing is, because they are out on a field with all their pals running around, most of the time they will enjoy it.

But they also need to learn the skills of the game. That is the number two thing.

Otherwise whats the point. Otherwise what are the mentors there for, except as glorified child minders.

If you started a 5 year old in swimming lessons, and 3 years later they still wouldnt put their face in the water, never mind swim......would you be happy if the coach said - "they're enjoying it....no big deal if they arent learning anything".

Hannibal_Smith

I would have a quiet word with the other coach. There are always kids who misbehave and with our bunch the parents are called and the kids marched off the training pitch.

But as some one else said...would parents ever stay with their kids! Or stay at the grounds somewhere.

granturismo

Charles Ingles wrote: »

Gaa is physical game.
On the picth is quite tough kids have to be prepared for that.

You are confusing this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fariUsCdrsE

with

https://twitter.com/DerekSwaris/status/1109863505325367301

Wabbit Ears

Ok.. there is a process to be followed here.

First you take time to observe these things happening yourself. Never work off 2nd or 3rd hand info. You have to have seen/heard it for yourself.

If the suspicions are confirmed you contact the club child protection officer directly who will investigate and take action upon getting advice from the central CPO.

Do NOT bring this to the attention of the chairman or any other committee member. This is for your own protection. The CPO is required to follow a process which includes them not discussing it with the committee.

If you have no satisfaction or believe the CPO is not acting appropriately you can contact the GAA CPO directly.

Finally, you can always make a complaint directly to Tulsa if the club and/or the governing bodies have not done so and you feel it's worth escalation.

In extreme circumstances you can also report an incident to the garda directly. This isn't one of them.

jlm29

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

I would have a quiet word with the other coach. There are always kids who misbehave and with our bunch the parents are called and the kids marched off the training pitch.

But as some one else said...would parents ever stay with their kids! Or stay at the grounds somewhere.

As someone pointed out, the clubs often don’t facilitate parents to stay with their kids. Our club has U6/U8/U10 training all at the same time. Last sat, U6 had training at home, while U8 had a blitz half an hour away. Plenty parents have kids in both groups, we can’t bilocate.

But, I find it hard to believe that all parents are dropping and leaving kids unsupervised, there’s always a few hanging around

Neyite

Charles Ingles wrote: »

Yes I have and I volunteer with children in a different sport.
But the amount of busybody parents and that show no interest in their child just drop them off and expect them to be babysit.
Then come winging at the slightest thing.
The parents who stay with their child and show an interest are by far the nicer and better parents

If a parent has to attend to babysit the coach to ensure that they behave, it doesn't say much for the coach tbh.



My partner coaches under 8's GAA. The emphasis is on them having fun and learning how to play together rather than tactical football. Under no circumstances is it permissible for him to push, bully or swear at a small child. His job is mainly to tie shoelaces and ensure everyone is getting a turn at something and having fun.


OP, I understand that you don't want to make waves in the small community so I understand why you want to do this the correct way. Maybe here might help if you've not looked at their safeguarding policies already? Even if you have, using a few of their key phrases when outlining your concerns to the appropriate person might be useful.

Tombo2001

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

Ok.. there is a process to be followed here.

First you take time to observe these things happening yourself. Never work off 2nd or 3rd hand info. You have to have seen/heard it for yourself.

If the suspicions are confirmed you contact the club child protection officer directly who will investigate and take action upon getting advice from the central CPO.

Do NOT bring this to the attention of the chairman or any other committee member. This is for your own protection. The CPO is required to follow a process which includes them not discussing it with the committee.

If you have no satisfaction or believe the CPO is not acting appropriately you can contact the GAA CPO directly.

Finally, you can always make a complaint directly to Tulsa if the club and/or the governing bodies have not done so and you feel it's worth escalation.

In extreme circumstances you can also report an incident to the garda directly. This isn't one of them.

Point above made very well.

AFAIK - every group has a CPO. If you asked each parent - who is the CPO - a lot of them wouldnt know there was one (I am guessing).

A couple of times a year we do evening feedback sessions for parents which are a forum for discussing issues/ concerns etc etc.

These tend to be poorly attended by parents.

Tombo2001

Neyite wrote: »

If a parent has to attend to babysit the coach to ensure that they behave, it doesn't say much for the coach tbh.



My partner coaches under 8's GAA. The emphasis is on them having fun and learning how to play together rather than tactical football. Under no circumstances is it permissible for him to push, bully or swear at a small child. His job is mainly to tie shoelaces and ensure everyone is getting a turn at something and having fun.


OP, I understand that you don't want to make waves in the small community so I understand why you want to do this the correct way. Maybe here might help if you've not looked at their safeguarding policies already? Even if you have, using a few of their key phrases when outlining your concerns to the appropriate person might be useful.

the point was on babysitting the kids, not babysitting the coach.

and to your second point - "his main job is to tie shoelaces" - no, thats the parents job. If he is doing that, its because the parents didnt bother.

Wabbit Ears

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Point above made very well.

AFAIK - every group has a CPO. If you asked each parent - who is the CPO - a lot of them wouldnt know there was one (I am guessing).

A couple of times a year we do evening feedback sessions for parents which are a forum for discussing issues/ concerns etc etc.

These tend to be poorly attended by parents.

every club has to have a CPO and more often then not its just a case of googling the name of the club and checking out the committee page.

I randomly picked for googling skerries gaa and castlebar GAA and for both clubs it was extremely easy to find the CPO in a click or two.

Anyone who says they dont know who the CPO is simply hasnt had reason to do so, which is probably a good thing, in an ideal world you should never have reason to seek that person out. Thankfully, if you do, its really easy to find this info online.

Neyite

Tombo2001 wrote: »

the point was on babysitting the kids, not babysitting the coach.

and to your second point - "his main job is to tie shoelaces" - no, thats the parents job. If he is doing that, its because the parents didnt bother.

If I have to stay at the sidelines to ensure another adult minds his language in front of a child then he's not much of a coach. My partner is very sweary but he would not swear in front of children or at training for the children. None of our GAA coaches do. There's no need ever to swear at a child, and especially not during a game or training.



My partner's role as U8's is to make sure all the children have fun and if they need a shoelace tied up during training he does it for them. His group is mainly under 6 and find the tougher shoelaces on a football boot hard to pull tightly enough, and it's a safety issue to let them run around with loose shoelaces.

Soulsun

Seriously

There are children we are talking about.
Let the kids enjoy their sports.
Some coaches think they are the next Alex Ferguson and their kids are Dublin Mayo or Man Utd stars in the making..
I personally would take issue with the behaviour of the coach and would ensure it wouldn't happen again.
Some parents are also too feckin pressing....I'd love to pull some of them up but it ain't my business.
Good coaches are invaluable imo.

Rubberchikken

volunteer or not he has no right to lay a hand on anyone.
id also say calling them names is pointless unnecessary and poor discipline.

for the sake of the kids and his own sake there should be at least one other gaa volunteer/coach there.
op have you seen this behaviour or is it being relayed to you by your kid or someone else?

being rough with anyone doesnt teach them the right way. no wonder theres such crap happening at even the most junior matches.

Hannibal_Smith

jlm29 wrote: »

As someone pointed out, the clubs often don’t facilitate parents to stay with their kids. Our club has U6/U8/U10 training all at the same time. Last sat, U6 had training at home, while U8 had a blitz half an hour away. Plenty parents have kids in both groups, we can’t bilocate.

But, I find it hard to believe that all parents are dropping and leaving kids unsupervised, there’s always a few hanging around

Our club doesn'thave a facility either. We stand and wait.

Did you leave a 6 year old unsupervised? Or the kid at the blitz?