Random Wrestling Thoughts (Part 2)

ShagNastii

I was thinking today and I don’t know what the general consensus is, but NXT can easily be seen as a bad thing for fans.

It has produced so much phenomenal “sports entertainment” but it has stalled so many careers.

Dunne/Bate at NXT Chicago was 4 years ago. They’ve faffed about NXT and the utterly useless NXT UK since. They should be nearly leading the WWE at this stage.

4 years in “wrestling years” is an eternity.

Omackeral

ShagNastii wrote: »

4 years in “wrestling years” is an eternity.

This is a discussion all on it’s own.

I was gonna dispute your take but then I remember that Steve Austin really broke out in 1998 and was done by 2003. Same for The Rock really. That’s a blink of an eye and yet seems they were on top for so long.

ThePott

It's true but we also have to remember that in 98 Stone Cold was 34 years old. The Rock was 26.
Even after 4 years, Tyler Bate is only 24 (and only recently). There's plenty time to have him step-up yet.

That being said I agree, saw Tyler Bate winning some NXT UK thing and thought that they'd really let him languish. He was a big deal and they really cooled him off to the point it's hard to care about him. They just made him one of the other NXT UK guys. At least Dunne is on NXT proper.

B.A._Baracus

ShagNastii wrote: »

4 years in “wrestling years” is an eternity.

It really is
To add to the examples above Mr Big Daddy Cool himself Kevin Nash joined WWF in 1993 and he was gone by mid-1996. So all that being Michaels manager, the matches with Bret, the mania match with Michaels... All within a 3 year window. Scott Hall joined in 92 and gone with Nash in 1996.

But I guess it has to be said that wrestling moved so fast back then. Compare 1990 WWF with Hogan and warrior and family friendly product. Then compare to WWF 2000 with the rock, stone cold and attitude era. Mad when you compare 2011 to today.

PTH2009

Is been a world champion nowadays not as important as years gone by ?

ShagNastii

PTH2009 wrote: »

Is been a world champion nowadays not as important as years gone by ?

I’d be of the belief this is definitely the case. The world champ is no longer THEE MAN carrying the company, that bloke you put on the posters to sell tickets. The Bret Hart, The Hulk Hogan.

It is no longer the world champs leading WWE. It’s now WWE leading the world champs.

Itssoeasy

PTH2009 wrote: »

Is been a world champion nowadays not as important as years gone by ?

No it’s not because a world champion is an extension of the company they represent. I mean in the 1970’s and 1980’s the nwa world champion was the man and people believed it.

Omackeral

There's also a multitude of world champions. Sure WWE has had two for the last 20 years now. That's how the likes of Great Khali and Jack Swagger have been world champions. They can afford to flute around with one belt if they want.

Sirsok

Charlotte Fkair being what a 13 time world champion and only been on the main roster what just shy of 5 years is a bit mad ain't it?

Itssoeasy

Sirsok wrote: »

Charlotte Fkair being what a 13 time world champion and only been on the main roster what just shy of 5 years is a bit mad ain't it?

Yeah it’s some run rate. It took her dad around twenty years to win the 16 he’s officially credited with, even though it’s probably more given how he dropped and won the title a few times to not cause a riot in places like Puerto Rico. But Vince Russo started this devaluation of the world titles by making David arquette a champion. He seems like a nice guy and donated the money he made to a good cause( can’t remember what it was) but he’d no business being champion.

ShagNastii

You’d wonder with the multiple titles and brand split would it be more financial viable for one roster and one champ.

Like that argument you hear about Vince not being too hot on tag team wrestling cause of two salaries.

I suppose two rosters means the capability to have 12 house shows a week as opposed to 6. Probably pays for itself and then some.

ThePott

House shows make very little money at this point really.

I think one of the bigger reasons that there won't be one roster for the forseeable future is the TV deals. Having different rosters makes each show the appearance of being unique and important. I'd imagine if the show had the one roster one show could feel the lesser for it. I don't think USA or Fox would be happy if their show became the 'secondary' show as a result.

I know personally before the brand split in 2016 I never watched Smackdown, it just felt inessential.

Itssoeasy

As we are past midnight and it’s may 24th, we are exactly one month shy of the twentieth anniversary of king of the ring 2001 which is one of the few PPVs I watched with someone, who was my best friend and had the all time classic street fight between kurt angle and Shane McMahon and there was the paranoid as **** Austin waiting for Vince before the title match with Jericho and Benoit and also the DDP on air burial. Edge won the KOTR for the record and Booker T debuted and inured Austin. I love Austin limping down the isle way after the main event. It put over the intensity of the main event . Wasn’t the raw the next night in MSG and the whole wcw holding the wwf title angle hyped up ?
Good times.

Shiminay

Some of you may or may not know, Cezar Bononi from AEW has been going through the wringer as his wife has Leukemia. Because America is a nation of barbarians who think you should have to be bankrupt if you get sick, there's a fundraiser to help with things: https://gofund.me/a9234ad1

CastorTroy

With the returning crowds, do you think WWE will shake things up before then by crowning new champions they think people might want or set up title matches for the first nights of each brand? Or will they just carry on as normal, ignoring what fans want?

Loughc

CastorTroy wrote: »

Or will they just carry on as normal, ignoring what fans want?

This. They can drown fans out on TV with the cheer/boo buttons and they don't care about house show crowds.

Lithium93_

Shiminay wrote: »

Some of you may or may not know, Cezar Bononi from AEW has been going through the wringer as his wife has Leukemia. Because America is a nation of barbarians who think you should have to be bankrupt if you get sick, there's a fundraiser to help with things: https://gofund.me/a9234ad1

Tony Khan chipped in with a 10 grand donation.

CastorTroy

Loughc wrote: »

This. They can drown fans out on TV with the cheer/boo buttons and they don't care about house show crowds.

The thought entered my mind when the tag match was main eventing. Thought they would give the titles back to Nia and Shayna before the live shows then realised I doubt fans are interested in either team

Agent Coulson

Does Balor make the WWE so much money on merch that he is worth keeping in NXT on main roster money.

He is just so stale and bland now it's hard to imagine he is an actual draw.

PTH2009

Watched the A&E show on the Warrior, he was an odd individual but **** me the man was a beast

Reckon the Dark Side Of The Ring episode will paint him in a much different picture

Itssoeasy

PTH2009 wrote: »

Watched the A&E show on the Warrior, he was an odd individual but **** me the man was a beast

Reckon the Dark Side Of The Ring episode will paint him in a much different picture

Yeah the dark side of the ring will be a more honest picture of himself. He should never have gotten to where he got in the business, and only did because of his look, and there were many guys with his look who weren’t complete nutters and could work to some degree and didn’t cut promos that made handsome Jimmy valiants and Randy savage promos in Memphis look like the script to Hamilton.

The self destruction of the ultimate warrior was one I wholly agree with and normally wwe DVDs are puff pieces and all fluffy. They got it right that time.

The White Wolf

From what I heard they had a load of bums on that never met the man, his family, and current WWE suits with an interest in maintaining a certain narrative. Doesn't sound exactly stellar.

Itssoeasy

The White Wolf wrote: »

From what I heard they had a loading of bums on that never met the man, his family, and current WWE suits with an interest in maintaining a certain narrative. Doesn't sound exactly stellar.

Which one the dark side or the A&E documentary ?

Riddle101

Looking at DDT variations, I have to say Gangrel's Impaler (Lifting DDT) is one of the best DDTs I've ever seen. I've seen other wrestlers use the lifting DDT but none come close to Gangrel.

I'm now conflicted as to which DDT is my favorite between the Lifting DDT and the Double Underhook DDT. I think the Impaler just about edges for me.

B.A._Baracus

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Does Balor make the WWE so much money on merch that he is worth keeping in NXT on main roster money.

He is just so stale and bland now it's hard to imagine he is an actual draw.

Accordingly he was sent down to NXT with full roster pay. So I guess WWE place some value on him being there. You'd think his merch sales would take a hit too from going from full roster with more eyes on to NXT with less eyes on. Who knows.

Mad tho about Finn. A few short years ago he was considered to be one of the best wrestlers in the world, huge buzz leaving NJPW and signing with WWE. But am sure his bank balance has increased 20 fold since leaving njpw

Itssoeasy

Twenty years yesterday the first WCW wrestler invaded wwf with Lance storm doing a run in on Monday night raw in what WWE stat is the start of the invasion angle. I remember being very excited for this WCW vs WWF storyline because of the ratings war in the years previous, but I think I’m not alone in being less than happy with how it went at the time, and when I’ve watched it back on the network it’s an even bigger feeling of a lost opportunity.

riffmongous

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Twenty years yesterday the first WCW wrestler invaded wwf with Lance storm doing a run in on Monday night raw in what WWE stat is the start of the invasion angle. I remember being very excited for this WCW vs WWF storyline because of the ratings war in the years previous, but I think I’m not alone in being less than happy with how it went at the time, and when I’ve watched it back on the network it’s an even bigger feeling of a lost opportunity.

I don't think I've ever heard a single person say they were happy with how it went down actually, I wonder what the WWE wrestlers from that time think

Itssoeasy

riffmongous wrote: »

I don't think I've ever heard a single person say they were happy with how it went down actually, I wonder what the WWE wrestlers from that time think

Well neither have I but the phrase “there’s always one” can certainly apply to wrestling fans so I said I’d air on the side of caution.

And I know there were some things that wwf couldn’t work around like the time Warner contracts of the big stars who were getting paid to sit at home.

I think Booker T was one of the only wcw wrestlers to come out of the invasion in some ways not made to look like ****. I mean they threw DDP to taker and made him look like a jobber when he’d been one of their top guys and a former WCW champion.

Maybe if Benoit isn’t injured he goes to the alliance side and Austin doesn’t but then if Austin and the rock are on one side then it’s even more one sided then it ended up being.

Necro

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Well neither have I but the phrase “there’s always one” can certainly apply to wrestling fans so I said I’d air on the side of caution.

And I know there were some things that wwf couldn’t work around like the time Warner contracts of the big stars who were getting paid to sit at home.

I think Booker T was one of the only wcw wrestlers to come out of the invasion in some ways not made to look like ****. I mean they threw DDP to taker and made him look like a jobber when he’d been one of their top guys and a former WCW champion.

Maybe if Benoit isn’t injured he goes to the alliance side and Austin doesn’t but then if Austin and the rock are on one side then it’s even more one sided then it ended up being.

Guys who benefited from the whole Invasion angle

Jericho (moved into the world title scene with his feud with Rock and then afterwards, well... undisputed champion etc)

RVD (should have had a rocket strapped to him, he was massively over at the time)

Edge (had his breakout singles moment first with Christian and then that fantastic match with Test at Survivor Series)

To a lesser degree

Test (The immunity angle was the one thing that stayed after the whole alliance story died, he had a couple of main events on Raw and Smackdown against the Rock as well)

Booker T did mediocre, they ripped the WCW title off him and made him look daft a good bit though.

Rhyno would have been another beneficiary if he hadn't busted his neck badly as well during the angle.

Not making Angle the breakout face and instead doing his stupid about turn to join the Alliance to make up the numbers killed the entire angle deader than a lame duck.

This was insane at Unforgiven, the crowd was nuts - he was a made man!

Triple H and Benoit being injured for the whole angle sucked along with WCW's big stars still being tied into Time Warner contracts.

PTH2009

Have no idea about memorabilia collecting but how do the props/gear etc end up going to fans instead of say the wrestler getting to keep them ?

I'm enjoying the most wanted treasures series and always wondering this