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Why would you vote SF?

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  • 27-03-2019 1:50am
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 343 ✭✭


    They were voted into Stormont, They pulled out ?, They have seats in House of Commons, They don't attend (But collect expenses) They could be in London now downing the DUP and helping the no border brexit thing but they aint. They talk the talk etc. Why bother with them really. Flushing your ballot paper down the toilet would be better methinks. They are a wasted vote


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,999 ✭✭✭bilbot79


    Wtf ? wrote: »
    They were voted into Stormont, They pulled out ?, They have seats in House of Commons, They don't attend (But collect expenses) They could be in London now downing the DUP and helping the no border brexit thing but they aint. They talk the talk etc. Why bother with them really. Flushing your ballot paper down the toilet would be better methinks. They are a wasted vote

    Presumably they hold the only real hope of reuniting the country, a romantic idea that few want to let go of


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭Laois_Man


    Wtf ? wrote: »
    They were voted into Stormont, They pulled out ?, They have seats in House of Commons, They don't attend (But collect expenses) They could be in London now downing the DUP and helping the no border brexit thing but they aint. They talk the talk etc. Why bother with them really. Flushing your ballot paper down the toilet would be better methinks. They are a wasted vote

    None of those points relate to voting for a SF candidate in the Rep. Ireland which is where most of us are

    But as for Northern Ireland....Maybe a vote for to a national parliament in what they don’t see as their nation is a vote that should be “wasted” as they see it?

    By the way, their presence in Westminster would in no way down the DUP!


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,169 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Wtf ? wrote: »
    They were voted into Stormont, They pulled out ?, They have seats in House of Commons, They don't attend (But collect expenses) They could be in London now downing the DUP and helping the no border brexit thing but they aint. They talk the talk etc. Why bother with them really. Flushing your ballot paper down the toilet would be better methinks. They are a wasted vote

    Because since the GFA and the parity of esteem that comes with it nationalists have had the loudest voice they have ever had in NI.

    As a result they have moved towards to the party that promises to listen to that voice more intently than any other party.

    On the other side the unionists have countered this which they perceive as a threat to their culture by morning towards the part the will listen to them.most intently.

    So you have a society that is getting more and more divided and entrenched and it's a vicious circle.

    That's why people voted for SF.

    For over 100 years SF said they would not sit in the HOC so anyone voting for them know that full well.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 343 ✭✭Wtf ?


    Still a wasted vote tho, Nobody down here would go into Government with them and I see why. Their history does them no favors either. Their current mouthpiece does not help either, They just oppose everything and do nothing. Waste of space of a hopefully gone era.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭Laois_Man


    Wtf ? wrote: »
    Still a wasted vote tho, Nobody down here would go into Government with them and I see why. Their history does them no favors either. Their current mouthpiece does not help either, They just oppose everything and do nothing. Waste of space of a hopefully gone era.

    Voting in an election is not supposed to be tantamount to backing a horse. You are supposed to be voting for the party closest to your convictions, not the party you think is going to win.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 343 ✭✭Wtf ?


    Laois_Man wrote: »
    Voting in an election is not supposed to be tantamount to backing a horse. You are supposed to be voting for the party closest to your convictions, not the party you think is going to win.
    Voting for an Independent is the same thing then, You can vote for them but they can't/wont do anything because they are 1 voice, Who might mumble once about something dear to your heart but really they can do nothing, Thats what I mean, A wasted vote. Mary Lou babbles on all the time but nobody really listens to her either


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Wtf ? wrote: »
    Voting for an Independent is the same thing then, You can vote for them but they can't/wont do anything because they are 1 voice, Who might mumble once about something dear to your heart but really they can do nothing, Thats what I mean, A wasted vote. Mary Lou babbles on all the time but nobody really listens to her either

    You need an opposition as well to question the Government. Mary Lou was pretty good on the Public Accounts Committee.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Wtf ? wrote: »
    They were voted into Stormont, They pulled out ?,
    The DUP were caught with their hand in the till - thats why theres no stormont
    Wtf ? wrote: »

    They have seats in House of Commons, They don't attend (But collect expenses) They could be in London now downing the DUP and helping the no border brexit thing but they aint. They talk the talk etc. Why bother with them really. Flushing your ballot paper down the toilet would be better methinks. They are a wasted vote

    They get elected on the simple fact they wont go to Westminister. No idea how you think an handful of SF mps will equal the couple of hundred votes the british government are short when it comes to 'downing the dup and helping with the no border brexit thing'.

    Then again, surely you'd be aware of these things before starting a thread about it ... no?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 343 ✭✭Wtf ?


    maccored wrote: »
    The DUP were caught with their hand in the till - thats why theres no stormont



    They get elected on the simple fact they wont go to Westminister. No idea how you think an handful of SF mps will equal the couple of hundred votes the british government are short when it comes to 'downing the dup and helping with the no border brexit thing'.

    Then again, surely you'd be aware of these things before starting a thread about it ... no?
    But you are assuming that your opinion is fact....No ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Wtf ? wrote: »
    They were voted into Stormont, They pulled out ?, They have seats in House of Commons, They don't attend (But collect expenses) They could be in London now downing the DUP and helping the no border brexit thing but they aint. They talk the talk etc. Why bother with them really. Flushing your ballot paper down the toilet would be better methinks. They are a wasted vote

    Why'd they pull out?

    What's preventing them going back in?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Wtf ? wrote: »
    But you are assuming that your opinion is fact....No ?


    which is my opinion?



    Did the DUP bring down stormont due to dodgy actions? Yes
    Do SF get elected on not going to Westminster? Yes

    Both facts (kinda see how you ended up starting this thread)


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,581 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    maccored wrote: »
    which is my opinion?



    Did the DUP bring down stormont due to dodgy actions? Yes
    Do SF get elected on not going to Westminster? Yes

    Both facts (kinda see how you ended up starting this thread)

    To be fair, both are opinions based on certain facts and assumptions and are not facts in and of themselves.

    (1) In the case of bringing down Stormont, you are correct that the actions of the DUP were cited by SF as the reason why they were bringing down Stormont. However, that does not lead to a fact that the DUP brought down Stormont. The facts allow you to have the opinion that SF brought down Stormont or that the DUP brought down Stormont. Both opinions are valid, which is more valid is a matter for debate.

    (2) In the second case, again you are correct that Sinn Fein have a policy of not taking up their seats at Westminister. However, it is not necessarily true that they got elected on that basis. People have myriad reasons for voting for political parties. Maybe Sinn Fein did get elected by those who voted for them to abstain from Westminister, maybe not. It is valid to hold an opinion that if you only include the votes for Sinn Fein that were on the basis of boycotting Westminister, then Sinn Fein would not have been elected to any of the seats. Therefore, you can have the opinion that they were not elected on that basis. Again, how much weight you give that opinion is up to you, but it is a valid opinion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    blanch152 wrote: »
    To be fair, both are opinions based on certain facts and assumptions and are not facts in and of themselves.

    (1) In the case of bringing down Stormont, you are correct that the actions of the DUP were cited by SF as the reason why they were bringing down Stormont. However, that does not lead to a fact that the DUP brought down Stormont. The facts allow you to have the opinion that SF brought down Stormont or that the DUP brought down Stormont. Both opinions are valid, which is more valid is a matter for debate.
    if the DUP let the facts be known, then maybe we might get somewhere. You cant deny the scandal exists, and you cant deny these are the reasons SF used to walk out - therefore my point remains
    blanch152 wrote: »
    (2) In the second case, again you are correct that Sinn Fein have a policy of not taking up their seats at Westminister. However, it is not necessarily true that they got elected on that basis. People have myriad reasons for voting for political parties. Maybe Sinn Fein did get elected by those who voted for them to abstain from Westminister, maybe not. It is valid to hold an opinion that if you only include the votes for Sinn Fein that were on the basis of boycotting Westminister, then Sinn Fein would not have been elected to any of the seats. Therefore, you can have the opinion that they were not elected on that basis. Again, how much weight you give that opinion is up to you, but it is a valid opinion.

    As someone from the north who voted for SF in the 80s and 90s, it was one of the reasons I voted for them - plus everyone else I grew up with who voted for them. In fact Ive never heard of anyone - in my experience - voting for SF who wanted them to take their seats.

    Unless you can find me something to suggest otherwise, my point on this still stands too. In this case its YOUR opinion being stated. Mine is based on reality plus what SF say themselves


  • Registered Users Posts: 327 ✭✭horsebox1977


    Wtf ? wrote: »
    Still a wasted vote tho, Nobody down here would go into Government with them and I see why. Their history does them no favors either. Their current mouthpiece does not help either, They just oppose everything and do nothing. Waste of space of a hopefully gone era.

    To be honest, your just showing complete and utter ignorance to pretty much everything.

    It's clear you have no real understanding of politics North or South.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,581 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    maccored wrote: »
    if the DUP let the facts be known, then maybe we might get somewhere. You cant deny the scandal exists, and you cant deny these are the reasons SF used to walk out - therefore my point remains


    As someone from the north who voted for SF in the 80s and 90s, it was one of the reasons I voted for them - plus everyone else I grew up with who voted for them. In fact Ive never heard of anyone - in my experience - voting for SF who wanted them to take their seats.

    Unless you can find me something to suggest otherwise, my point on this still stands too. In this case its YOUR opinion being stated. Mine is based on reality plus what SF say themselves


    I didn't put them forward as my opinions, I put them forward as valid alternative opinions.

    (1) You say they are the reasons that "SF used to walk out". That implies that you accept that Stormont was brought down by the action of SF walking out. You justify their walking out by citing facts that the scandal exists, but whether the facts justified a walkout is undoubtedly an opinion. Again, people are entitled to a different opinion, including the one that it was SF's fault the Assembly collapsed as the scandal didn't merit a walk-out. Again, no point disputing with me whether the opinion is correct, but it could be a valid opinion, based on the known facts.

    (2) I never said that there was anyone "voting for SF who wanted them to take their seats". What I disagreed with was your statement that "SF get elected on not going to Westminster." Sinn Fein get elected because they are a nationalist party, because they favour marriage equality and abortion, because they want a united Ireland, because they want to increase social welfare etc. etc. and not solely or even majorly because they are not going to Westminister. However, I would agree that many (possibly most) of those who voted for SF in the 1980s voted for them because they didn't take up their seats. However, they only held one seat for a part of the time in the 1980s, and didn't win any in the early 1990s, before getting two in the late 1990s. That suggests that merely having a policy of abstention doesn't appear to be sufficient to get one elected. Again, as there is no hard evidence or facts to support either side, all you can have is an opinion which could be yours or could be the alternative.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭satguy


    I vote SF because I'm tired of seeing FG looking after rich people like Dinny or giving Wesley College another hockey pitch.
    Plus as it stands now if I vote FF they just sit on their hands and give FG another confidence and supply agreement, so that's just a waste of a vote.

    So SF it is ..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    For me I've given them the nod off and on depending on what else is on offer.
    They never used tax payer monies for sweet deals, lost the tax payer monies on bad deals or 'looked after their own' with state appointments. Also they never were responsible for the economy crashing or ignoring growing crises to concentrate on a proven to be flawed economic system. So I'd vote SF long before I'd vote FF/FG.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,336 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    satguy wrote: »
    I vote SF because I'm tired of seeing FG looking after rich people like Dinny or giving Wesley College another hockey pitch.
    Plus as it stands now if I vote FF they just sit on their hands and give FG another confidence and supply agreement, so that's just a waste of a vote.

    So SF it is ..

    SF were urging us to follow Sryzia in Greece in their approach against the EU.
    I shudder to think how things might be for us now had they been in power.

    They're a very immature party in the sense that they've never had to implement real world decisions that might be unpopular.

    In power in the North they couldn't make the cut in welfare changes, leaving the unpopular to the British government.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,086 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Wtf ? wrote: »
    Still a wasted vote tho, Nobody down here would go into Government with them and I see why. Their history does them no favors either. Their current mouthpiece does not help either, They just oppose everything and do nothing. Waste of space of a hopefully gone era.




    I've voted Sinn Fein on every given opportunity now for 32 years. I've watched them go from a party with no seats to the third largest party in the state. Based on that I'd say their era is far from gone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    blanch152 wrote: »
    I didn't put them forward as my opinions, I put them forward as valid alternative opinions.

    (1) You say they are the reasons that "SF used to walk out". That implies that you accept that Stormont was brought down by the action of SF walking out. You justify their walking out by citing facts that the scandal exists, but whether the facts justified a walkout is undoubtedly an opinion. Again, people are entitled to a different opinion, including the one that it was SF's fault the Assembly collapsed as the scandal didn't merit a walk-out. Again, no point disputing with me whether the opinion is correct, but it could be a valid opinion, based on the known facts.

    (2) I never said that there was anyone "voting for SF who wanted them to take their seats". What I disagreed with was your statement that "SF get elected on not going to Westminster." Sinn Fein get elected because they are a nationalist party, because they favour marriage equality and abortion, because they want a united Ireland, because they want to increase social welfare etc. etc. and not solely or even majorly because they are not going to Westminister. However, I would agree that many (possibly most) of those who voted for SF in the 1980s voted for them because they didn't take up their seats. However, they only held one seat for a part of the time in the 1980s, and didn't win any in the early 1990s, before getting two in the late 1990s. That suggests that merely having a policy of abstention doesn't appear to be sufficient to get one elected. Again, as there is no hard evidence or facts to support either side, all you can have is an opinion which could be yours or could be the alternative.

    whatever youre having yourself - im not going down a rabbit hole. the basic point is the dup actions caused stormont to fall and sf voters vote for sf knowing they wont take seats in westminster. both of those points are still factual.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,571 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake


    jm08 wrote: »
    You need an opposition as well to question the Government. Mary Lou was pretty good on the Public Accounts Committee.

    The current PAC is an absolute disgrace, nothing but soundbites with various TDs jockeying to get their mug on the evening news headlines, and Mary Lou has been the very worst of the lot.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭TheRepentent


    they've never had to implement real world decisions that might be unpopular.
    This ^^


    I think they have made a decent enough effort to move away from the troubles(still haunted by it though) but they really are just a populist party and I think they'd either crap themselves when faced with reality or totally ruin the country if they had unfettered control.

    Wanna support genocide?Cheer on the murder of women and children?The Ruzzians aren't rapey enough for you? Morally bankrupt cockroaches and islamaphobes , Israel needs your help NOW!!

    http://tinyurl.com/2ksb4ejk


    https://www.btselem.org/



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,929 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    satguy wrote: »
    giving Wesley College another hockey pitch.


    Ohh look a SF supporter misrepresenting the facts to suit their own agenda, yeah Shane Ross who was responsible for that is an independent so nothing to do with FG and it was roundly proven there was no favoritism or special representations made by him regarding it. In fact it was exactly the opposite with Mary Lou herself making special representations regarding a boxing club in her constituency.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭laoch na mona


    Wtf ? wrote: »
    They were voted into Stormont, They pulled out ?, They have seats in House of Commons, They don't attend (But collect expenses) They could be in London now downing the DUP and helping the no border brexit thing but they aint. They talk the talk etc. Why bother with them really. Flushing your ballot paper down the toilet would be better methinks. They are a wasted vote

    Stormont collapsed due to a scandal the DUP created and a refusal to deliver on aspects of the GFA such as the Irish language act, Theres has been negotiations to get the assembly back running it's not Sinn Fein who are preventing this

    Sinn Fein MPs are elected on an abstentionist basis, their voters know this

    The idea that Irish MPs can have any influence in Westminster is a fantasy Sinn Fein are proactive on Brexit where it counts in Brussels


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    The current PAC is an absolute disgrace, nothing but soundbites with various TDs jockeying to get their mug on the evening news headlines, and Mary Lou has been the very worst of the lot.


    Mary Lou hasn't been on the PAC for at least a year now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    jm08 wrote: »
    Mary Lou hasn't been on the PAC for at least a year now.

    Made a good soundbite though ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Ohh look a SF supporter misrepresenting the facts to suit their own agenda, yeah Shane Ross who was responsible for that is an independent so nothing to do with FG and it was roundly proven there was no favoritism or special representations made by him regarding it. In fact it was exactly the opposite with Mary Lou herself making special representations regarding a boxing club in her constituency.

    You're absolutely right, I'd say he meant to mention James Reilly's primary care scandal instead.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭laoch na mona


    Wtf ? wrote: »
    Still a wasted vote tho, Nobody down here would go into Government with them and I see why. Their history does them no favors either. Their current mouthpiece does not help either, They just oppose everything and do nothing. Waste of space of a hopefully gone era.

    what ever your opinion of their politics that's factually false Sinn fein introduce bills to the dail contribute to debates, publish a fully costed alternative budget each year and help get important legislation like the banded hours bill passed

    You might politically disagree with them but their record as elected reps shows they definitely don't do nothing


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭Laois_Man


    Stormont collapsed due to a scandal the DUP created and a refusal to deliver on aspects of the GFA such as the Irish language act, Theres has been negotiations to get the assembly back running it's not Sinn Fein who are preventing this

    But Stormont really collapsed because the timing really suited SF's agenda to push for a border poll within the environment created by Brexit - an agenda also made easier with the absence of a devolved parliament.
    publish a fully costed alternative budget each year

    Ah yes, their creative accounting. Like the years they spent advocating a rise in corporation tax to 17% and counting all the new tax receipts that would ensue.

    Until they got tired of the ridicule and had to admit that the 12.5% should stay and that it should also be the rate applied in N. Ireland.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,925 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    what ever your opinion of their politics that's factually false Sinn fein introduce bills to the dail contribute to debates, publish a fully costed alternative budget each year and help get important legislation like the banded hours bill passed

    You might politically disagree with them but their record as elected reps shows they definitely don't do nothing

    And I'm sure our friend above remembers how they took a case to get FF to move the writ for the Donegal by-election after Pat the Cope headed off to Europe.

    So obviously they do nothing...


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