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Bloody Sunday soldier to be charged with murder

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Comments

  • #542
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,068 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    janfebmar wrote: »
    And you believe them, when Adams says he was never even in the PIRA? What records did they ever keep, and even if they did keep records, do you really think they would tell all on each other at this stage, "to bring closure to the events of the conflict" ? When they would not even help innocent victims of the troubles with a bit of innocent information like telling the children of Jean McColville what happened, and where she was buried?

    The ICLVR have long since expressed satisfaction with the co-operation of former republican activists.

    They have told her children why she was killed. She was allegedly an informant and had been warned.

    I don't know if she was or not. So don't ask me to adjudicate.


  • #543
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    They have told her children why she was killed. .

    In the weeks that followed her abduction in the early seventies they told her she ran off with a British soldier, according to reports? The IRA did not admit involvement until after the signing of the Good Friday Agreement.
    Jean McConville was discovered by accident / coastal errosion near Carlingford in County Louth in August 2003. In 2005, Sinn Féin party chairman Mitchel McLaughlin claimed that the killing of McConville was not a crime, saying that she had been executed as a spy in a war situation. According to the internet,Jean McConville's family has campaigned for the arrest of Adams over the murder. I do not know if she was an informer or not either, maybe she was.


  • #544
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,434 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    FrancieBrady wrote: »

    It is the same rule for all.

    So, why wont SF/IRA leadership help give the victims their day in court?

    I would have thought it would be the decent thing to do. But alas they hide behind their politics.


  • #545
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,068 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    markodaly wrote: »
    So, why wont SF/IRA leadership help give the victims their day in court?

    I would have thought it would be the decent thing to do. But alas they hide behind their politics.

    When everybody sits down in a truth process. That's what they say, not me.

    No side is going to hand over their own, so a truth process is the only thing that is going to work. The British are not willing to do that, even though we have known for some time they were players too.


  • #546
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,043 ✭✭✭Berserker


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    SF/IRA are willing to take part in a Truth process. The only people who aren't are The British and Loyalists. That speaks for itself.
    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    The IRA have said again and again that they are willing to bring closure to the events of the conflict, if all sides do.

    Talk is cheap. SF/IRA are great when it comes to these soundbites but they shut up shop very quickly when it's time to answer questions. Don't believe they've any remorse for the harm they caused or any interest in getting closure for their victims. Given the title of this thread, one can only laugh at your remark about the British being unwilling to bring closure to events that happened.


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  • #547
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,068 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Berserker wrote: »
    Talk is cheap. SF/IRA are great when it comes to these soundbites but they shut up shop very quickly when it's time to answer questions. Don't believe they've any remorse for the harm they caused or any interest in getting closure for their victims. Given the title of this thread, one can only laugh at your remark about the British being unwilling to bring closure to events that happened.

    How many years later is there still nobody in a court for this?
    A sovereign supposedly responsible government has had to be dragged kicking and screaming to even begin to detail what they did here. But it is others who are not to be believed?

    Take a read of how the ICLVR has gone about it's work and at who has engaged with it.
    I am no supporter of what the IRA did but I see no reason as of yet to think that they wouldn't do as they say, in a transparent process, where all players take part.


  • #548
    Pkiernan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    markodaly wrote: »
    So, why wont SF/IRA leadership help give the victims their day in court?

    They're afraid their rape of children will be aired in public again


  • #549
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Berserker wrote: »
    Talk is cheap. SF/IRA are great when it comes to these soundbites but they shut up shop very quickly when it's time to answer questions. Don't believe they've any remorse for the harm they caused or any interest in getting closure for their victims.

    +1. Indeed in the case of Jean McColville for example, what hope is there for finding out what happened when certain people do not even admit they were in the IRA? Brendan Hughes and Dolours Price, both now deceased, admitted they were involved in McConville's kidnapping. Hughes claimed McConville had admitted being an informer and that Adams ordered her disappearance. In a 2010 newspaper article, Price also claimed McConville was an informer and that Adams ordered her disappearance.


  • #550
    zapitastas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 498 ✭✭zapitastas


    janfebmar wrote: »
    +1. Indeed in the case of Jean McColville for example, what hope is there for finding out what happened when certain people do not even admit they were in the IRA? Brendan Hughes and Dolours Price, both now deceased, admitted they were involved in McConville's kidnapping. Hughes claimed McConville had admitted being an informer and that Adams ordered her disappearance. In a 2010 newspaper article, Price also claimed McConville was an informer and that Adams ordered her disappearance.

    Just on that, do you really expect Gerry Adams to admit previous membership of the IRA and then go to prison for two years. Why would he do that?


  • #551
    McMurphy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    janfebmar wrote: »
    +1. Indeed in the case of Jean McColville for example, what hope is there for finding out what happened when certain people do not even admit they were in the IRA? Brendan Hughes and Dolours Price, both now deceased, admitted they were involved in McConville's kidnapping. Hughes claimed McConville had admitted being an informer and that Adams ordered her disappearance. In a 2010 newspaper article, Price also claimed McConville was an informer and that Adams ordered her disappearance.

    So McConville was a British Government informer?


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  • #552
    Farawayhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭Farawayhome


    Informers were killed in large numbers by the Old IRA, the PIRA killed informers too. In every war spies and informers get killed. It's not nice, war is not nice. It's just the way it is.

    On the overall point of gaining justice for victims. This is very important. The British side are blocking any efforts to achieve this. It's clear why they are doing this. Everyone knows of the bad acts committed by the PIRA. We all know about the bombs and killings that should not have happened. They are seen as the instigators and the chief culprits in the war. If a truth and reconciliation commission was to be undertaken, this myth would be busted. That would not be in the interest of the British side.


  • #553
    astrofool
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 18,072 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    zapitastas wrote: »
    Just on that, do you really expect Gerry Adams to admit previous membership of the IRA and then go to prison for two years. Why would he do that?

    While he denies such an obvious truth, you can't blame everyone else for doing the same. To go to prison for your beliefs is to test how much you really believe (and given politics, I'd doubt he'd get much of a sentence at this stage, if any).


  • #554
    Farawayhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭Farawayhome


    astrofool wrote: »
    While he denies such an obvious truth, you can't blame everyone else for doing the same. To go to prison for your beliefs is to test how much you really believe (and given politics, I'd doubt he'd get much of a sentence at this stage, if any).

    He was in prison. He also took a few bullets so I think his believe in the struggle is undeniable. There are plenty of legitimate criticisms of Adams and I'd have plenty, this is not one of them though.


  • #555
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,434 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    When everybody sits down in a truth process.

    So, the victims of this slaughter will just have to suck it up, even though men like Gerry Adams and Slab Murphy could give them justice. How thoughtful and considerate.
    No side is going to hand over their own, .

    Solder F is going to be charged with murder by the UK government
    Why can't SF/IRA give up one of their own?

    Blah Blah...politics.... blah blah..

    Ah OK so Ted.

    I love this moral duplicity Francie.

    So to use your own words.
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109694242&postcount=241
    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Why are you trying to excuse slaughter? .


  • #556
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,043 ✭✭✭Berserker


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    How many years later is there still nobody in a court for this?

    These things take time to work through. Would you prefer to see these things rushed and the culprit/s getting off because of some technicality?
    zapitastas wrote: »
    Just on that, do you really expect Gerry Adams to admit previous membership of the IRA and then go to prison for two years. Why would he do that?

    The real question is why he won't do that. McGuinness was big enough to admit it. Adams won't though because he knows it'll shattered this "man of peace who convinced the IRA to decommission etc" image. He'll be an ex-IRA big-wig who swapped terrorism for a big pension and pay check.


  • #557
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,068 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    markodaly wrote: »
    So, the victims of this slaughter will just have to suck it up, even though men like Gerry Adams and Slab Murphy could give them justice. How thoughtful and considerate.

    Well, suggest to me another way of doing it that is going to work?

    Not some Little House On The Prairie moral fantasy world stuff, something that is going to deliver the truth and some sense of justice to the relatives.


    Solder F is going to be charged with murder by the UK government
    Why can't SF/IRA give up one of their own?

    Blah Blah...politics.... blah blah..

    Ah OK so Ted.

    I love this moral duplicity Francie.

    So to use your own words.
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109694242&postcount=241

    You are really struggling here. 30,000 people went to jail over the conflict, again I ask you, how many of them were British soldiers?


  • #558
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,068 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Berserker wrote: »
    These things take time to work through. Would you prefer to see these things rushed and the culprit/s getting off because of some technicality?



    You do know the entire apparatus of the British state came together very quickly to whitewash and cover up what happened in Derry?


  • #559
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Farawayhome wrote: »
    Everyone knows of the bad acts committed by the PIRA. We all know about the bombs and killings that should not have happened. They are seen as the instigators and the chief culprits in the war. If a truth and reconciliation commission was to be undertaken, this myth would be busted.

    Do you really think the IRA or INLA would give up on any of their own, or even admit to being in the IRA? Many people involved 30 or 40 years ago are dead, no records were kept etc. Be realistic. A truth and reconciliation commission would reveal nothing.


  • #560
    Farawayhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭Farawayhome


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Do you really think the IRA or INLA would give up on any of their own, or even admit to being in the IRA? Many people involved 30 or 40 years ago are dead, no records were kept etc. Be realistic. A truth and reconciliation commission would reveal nothing.

    I don't think the British side will give up their own. Their history of cover ups, sham reports, files being destroyed, lying about victims etc is well known. They have more to hide than anyone from the war.


  • #561
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,043 ✭✭✭Berserker


    Farawayhome wrote: »
    I don't think the British side will give up their own. Their history of cover ups, sham reports, files being destroyed, lying about victims etc is well known.

    Take a look at the title of this thread and think about the post above.


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  • #562
    zapitastas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 498 ✭✭zapitastas


    Bikers are going to organise a protest in London today called rolling thunder. The protest is at the prosecution of soldier F. How could anyone decide that this human trash is worth protesting for. Says a lot about those who would show up


  • #563
    partyguinness
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,202 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    Berserker wrote: »
    Take a look at the title of this thread and think about the post above.


    Oh don't worry. There is a lot of water to flow under the bridge before Soldier F is in the dock.


  • #564
    NIMAN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,348 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Good to see another murderer might be going to trial. Pity it has taken so long for innocent Irish lives to matter.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/former-british-soldier-to-be-prosecuted-for-murder-of-teenager-in-derry-in-1972-38016598.html


  • #565
    Edgware
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,874 ✭✭✭Edgware


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Good to see another murderer might be going to trial. Pity it has taken so long for innocent Irish lives to matter.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/former-british-soldier-to-be-prosecuted-for-murder-of-teenager-in-derry-in-1972-38016598.html
    "Another murderer" ?
    No trial needed so.


  • #566
    Farawayhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭Farawayhome


    Edgware wrote: »
    "Another murderer" ?
    No trial needed so.

    Any sympathy for Daniel Hegarty, the 15 year old child murdered by the British army?


  • #567
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Edgware wrote:
    "Another murderer" ?.

    What would you call someone that shots a 15 year child twice in the head?


  • #568
    NIMAN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,348 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Edgware wrote: »
    "Another murderer" ?
    No trial needed so.

    Thats my opinion of course.

    But for one young lad to be shot in the head twice, and his cousin to be shot in the head once (and survive), I have decided it was murder.

    You may not agree, but its known that these lads proved no threat at the time of their death/murder.

    Notice again that the soldier is in ill health, same as Soldier F from the Bloody Sunday murders. I am guessing there is an element of picking the guys who will never be put in jail due to it.


  • #569
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Edgware wrote: »
    "Another murderer" ?
    No trial needed so.

    Edgware for all your talk about the IRA you have very worrying ideas about what or what isn't murder.

    The inquest into the death of Daniel Hegarty found:
    On Friday the jurors unanimously found that 15-year-old Daniel Hegarty posed no risk when he was shot twice in Derry during Operation Motorman in July 1972.

    A 15 year old boy was shot twice in the head by someone and you don't see it as murder? By your standards the victims of IRA bombings weren't murdered until we have a trial.


  • #570
    zapitastas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 498 ✭✭zapitastas


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Thats my opinion of course.

    But for one young lad to be shot in the head twice, and his cousin to be shot in the head once (and survive), I have decided it was murder.

    You may not agree, but its known that these lads proved no threat at the time of their death/murder.

    Notice again that the soldier is in ill health, same as Soldier F from the Bloody Sunday murders. I am guessing there is an element of picking the guys who will never be put in jail due to it.

    Essentially allowing a bunch of child murdering psychopaths to live most of their lives in peace before hauling them before the courts when they are old and frail. Too little too late


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  • #571
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Thats my opinion of course.

    But for one young lad to be shot in the head twice, and his cousin to be shot in the head once (and survive), I have decided it was murder.

    You may not agree, but its known that these lads proved no threat at the time of their death/murder.

    Notice again that the soldier is in ill health, same as Soldier F from the Bloody Sunday murders. I am guessing there is an element of picking the guys who will never be put in jail due to it.

    To be honest I don't mind so much. I think it's great that murderers will actually be dragged through the legal process and finally be actually charged with murder. At least it's ruined what would have been a cushy retirement.


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