Mayo GAA Discussion - Part 4

Audioslaven

flasher0030 wrote: »

That's not a fair comparison. If we take the new players that Horan has at his disposal this year, it's exceptional - Oisin Mullen, Eoin McLaighlean,
Tommy Conroy, Mark Moran. James Horan has nothing to do with their development. They carved that out themselves through their club performances. It's not like Horan unearthed them. Every dog on the street was aware of these guys potential over the past 2 years.
Now compare that to the couple of players named in a few posts previously that Rochford had to bring on in Croke Park - Danny Kirby, David Drake and Conor Loftus. There is no comparison. Kirby and Drake are never going to make a telling contribution to a match at intercounty level. And Loftus has no pace for a forward, and therefore will not do damage against a high performing team like Dublin or Kerry.

Take when Horan came in. He basically started that team. He is doing the same again but maybe not at the same level. You can argue all you want about it not been a fair comparison but Rochford did nothing for any of the players either. in their development. He was down in Corofin. You can argue with Horan's stent in westport, he may have spotted some potential but he is clearly trying to build a team with a mixture of youth and experience, more so than Rochford every did.

Rochford was very good in the match ups better than Horan but I just don't think Rochford commanded the same presence as Horan. I do think this is very important for young players and maybe why he is better in that department.

RedDevil55

flasher0030 wrote: »

That's not a fair comparison. If we take the new players that Horan has at his disposal this year, it's exceptional - Oisin Mullen, Eoin McLaighlean,
Tommy Conroy, Mark Moran. James Horan has nothing to do with their development. They carved that out themselves through their club performances. It's not like Horan unearthed them. Every dog on the street was aware of these guys potential over the past 2 years.
Now compare that to the couple of players named in a few posts previously that Rochford had to bring on in Croke Park - Danny Kirby, David Drake and Conor Loftus. There is no comparison. Kirby and Drake are never going to make a telling contribution to a match at intercounty level. And Loftus has no pace for a forward, and therefore will not do damage against a high performing team like Dublin or Kerry.

The 4 players you named were all hammered by Galway in the Connacht u20 final last year. None of them won anything at minor level either. Horan has had a lot to do with their development.

In a county like ours there should always be talented young players coming on the scene. It is management's job to give them the belief to make it at senior level.

flasher0030

RedDevil55 wrote: »

The 4 players you named were all hammered by Galway in the Connacht u20 final last year. None of them won anything at minor level either. Horan has had a lot to do with their development.

In a county like ours there should always be talented young players coming on the scene. It is management's job to give them the belief to make it at senior level.

I'm afraid your stats make no sense. A 6 point win doesn't reflect a "hammering" and just undermines anything else you are trying to argue against.
Just because a player does not win a connnacht or All-Ireland medal at minor or Under 20s does not diminish his quality in any way. CIaran McDonald won nothing at under-age level as far as I know.
The players are good players. They worked on it throughout their GAA career to date. And James Horan is fortunate that they landed on his desk at the same time. It's not taking away from James Horan as a manager. I rate him highely. I'm just saying its not because of James Horan that the aforementioned 4 players are integrating themselves into the team already. The initial point was that Stephen Rochford did not have the same luxury of a bunch of high quality players developming from the county at the one time.

muddle84

RedDevil55 wrote: »

The 4 players you named were all hammered by Galway in the Connacht u20 final last year. None of them won anything at minor level either. Horan has had a lot to do with their development.

In a county like ours there should always be talented young players coming on the scene. It is management's job to give them the belief to make it at senior level.

So just because Galway beat them and they didn't win anything at Minor they are no good? That's a ridiculous comment. Bernard Brogan or Brian Fenton didn't even play minor for Dublin so what does that make them?

wirelessdude01

Sure Keegan didn't play minor either, we better drop him because of that.

We all know savage minors who hardly even played senior or intermediate club.

Plenty of asymptomatic examples of guys who blossom within the proper environment.

RedDevil55

flasher0030 wrote: »

I'm afraid your stats make no sense. A 6 point win doesn't reflect a "hammering" and just undermines anything else you are trying to argue against.
Just because a player does not win a connnacht or All-Ireland medal at minor or Under 20s does not diminish his quality in any way. CIaran McDonald won nothing at under-age level as far as I know.
The players are good players. They worked on it throughout their GAA career to date. And James Horan is fortunate that they landed on his desk at the same time. It's not taking away from James Horan as a manager. I rate him highely. I'm just saying its not because of James Horan that the aforementioned 4 players are integrating themselves into the team already. The initial point was that Stephen Rochford did not have the same luxury of a bunch of high quality players developming from the county at the one time.

You can argue semantics but we were well beaten in that u20 final. They have improved massively in the last 15 months and Horan has had a lot to do with that. Going on about how Horan is lucky to come across them is nonsense.

There would have been talented young players around during Rochford's term as well but they weren't afforded the same opportunities. A good example would be Mattie Ruane who spent 3 years under Rochford without so much as a league appearance. In fairness we didn't need new players as much in 16 and 17 but we were caught out in 2018 after a few injuries.

RedDevil55

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Sure Keegan didn't play minor either, we better drop him because of that.

We all know savage minors who hardly even played senior or intermediate club.

Plenty of asymptomatic examples of guys who blossom within the proper environment.

I never said to drop Keegan but he actually proves my point perfectly. John O'Mahoney dropped him from the panel before the 2010 championship. Horan saw the potential he had and turned him into one of our best players ever.

Some people are ignoring the role a manager has on player development.

wirelessdude01

RedDevil55 wrote: »

You can argue semantics but we were well beaten in that u20 final. They have improved massively in the last 15 months and Horan has had a lot to do with that. Going on about how Horan is lucky to come across them is nonsense.

There would have been talented young players around during Rochford's term as well but they weren't afforded the same opportunities. A good example would be Mattie Ruane who spent 3 years under Rochford without so much as a league appearance. In fairness we didn't need new players as much in 16 and 17 but we were caught out in 2018 after a few injuries.

Now in fairness Mattie himself would be the first to admit that he enjoyed the college lifestyle too much up in DCU and that ha conditioning wasn't as it should have been due to not following his programme. Really can't blame him for being young and wanting to enjoy college.
Also I think the one summer where he was getting close he ended up getting injured and ended up only playing bit parts for Breaffy in the club championship.

White lighting

From the outside looking in Horan seems to have brought in an awful lot of Westport lads since he came back after managing them. I know they done well this year and in fairness all players have looked good at stages from Westport but does seem strange when no new knockmore lads have got a chance. What's the feeling in Mayo are all Westport players getting game time warranted

Edit. I'm a rossie but it's a genuine question not stirring the pot or in any way questioning Horans choices just curious.

wirelessdude01

White lighting wrote: »

From the outside looking in Horan seems to have brought in an awful lot of Westport lads since he came back after managing them. I know they done well this year and in fairness all players have looked good at stages from Westport but does seem strange when no new knockmore lads have got a chance. What's the feeling in Mayo are all Westport players getting game time warranted

The view my dad has is that Knockmore were one of those club sides where they had one or two standout players and the rest were of a very high club standard with the potential of s few of those to step up to IC standard if required S&C undertaken.

Westport have a higher number of standout players with potential to be IC players but that the rest of the players aren't at the same level yet as the standard Knockmore player.

Breaffy would be in the Knockmore category, hence why you don't see many of their outfield players on the IC panel.

White lighting

White lighting wrote: »

From the outside looking in Horan seems to have brought in an awful lot of Westport lads since he came back after managing them. I know they done well this year and in fairness all players have looked good at stages from Westport but does seem strange when no new knockmore lads have got a chance. What's the feeling in Mayo are all Westport players getting game time warranted

Edit. I'm a rossie but it's a genuine question not stirring the pot or in any way questioning Horans choices just curious.

Horan knowing fresh changes were needed to be competitive this year and going with what he knows as there wasn’t much time to work with new players. Would hope a couple of the knock more lads are involved in the league in the spring

Panrich

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

The view my dad has is that Knockmore were one of those club sides where they had one or two standout players and the rest were of a very high club standard with the potential of s few of those to step up to IC standard if required S&C undertaken.

Westport have a higher number of standout players with potential to be IC players but that the rest of the players aren't at the same level yet as the standard Knockmore player.

Breaffy would be in the Knockmore category, hence why you don't see many of their outfield players on the IC panel.

Some of the Knockmore lads are very young as well I think. I'd hope that they will get a chance next year. It seems strange that Naughton and Orme were overlooked though.

spakman

Westport have been the top underage team in the county over the past number of years, so it's not really surprising that some of the young players breaking through are from the club. But I'd say Horan's familiarity with them has to be help to their chances too.
Also have Oisín Mullin from Kilmaine, Tommy Conroy from The Neale, Ryan O'Donoghue from Belmullet and Jordan Flynn from Crossmolina. Young players from clubs that wouldn't be at the top table, all non-senior clubs apart from Belmullet

wirelessdude01

Deleted User wrote: »

Horan knowing fresh changes were needed to be competitive this year and going with what he knows as there wasn’t much time to work with new players. Would hope a couple of the knock more lads are involved in the league in the spring

Reape if he is willing to commit is a shoe in.

King is too light at the moment for IC.

Orme from what I've been told isn't willing to give the time at the moment and possibly never will.

Dazza is already on the panel but probably won get a look in this year.

Naughton gone to Sligo to train with them but still time to get him back if JH wants to seeing as he can't play with them until next season.

Dempsey will be an IC player once he keeps his head on his shoulders but not until he has done his time at u20.

White lighting

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

The view my dad has is that Knockmore were one of those club sides where they had one or two standout players and the rest were of a very high club standard with the potential of s few of those to step up to IC standard if required S&C undertaken.

Westport have a higher number of standout players with potential to be IC players but that the rest of the players aren't at the same level yet as the standard Knockmore player.

Breaffy would be in the Knockmore category, hence why you don't see many of their outfield players on the IC panel.

Yeah I know what you mean theres are about 6 or 7 lads from Michael Glaveys on Roscommon panel and they would be in the bottom 3 senior side in roscommon. Can be funny but as a roscommon panelist told me before intercounty is a totally different game to club football. Best of luck sunday I expect we will be facing you in the next game which has the making of a great game. Cheers to all who replied

km79

Panrich wrote: »

Some of the Knockmore lads are very young as well I think. I'd hope that they will get a chance next year. It seems strange that Naughton and Orme were overlooked though.

Orme opted out For the season I’m fairly sure

wirelessdude01

Panrich wrote: »

Some of the Knockmore lads are very young as well I think. I'd hope that they will get a chance next year. It seems strange that Naughton and Orme were overlooked though.

Naughton gone to Sligo, time to get him back though as he won be tied to them until next year as he can't play this year. Also rumours that Sligo were not making as much demands on his time with regards to S&C. Mayo time is alot higher.

Story is Orme isn't willing to commit to the S&C needed. Wants a life.

Can you blame either of them for just pretty much wanting to enjoy being club players for the moment,

RedDevil55

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Naughton gone to Sligo, time to get him back though as he won be tied to them until next year as he can't play this year. Also rumours that Sligo were not making as much demands on his time with regards to S&C. Mayo time is alot higher.

Story is Orme isn't willing to commit to the S&C needed. Wants a life.

Can you blame either of them for just pretty much wanting to enjoy being club players for the moment,

Yeah apparently Orme turned down a call up. No surprise management wanted him as we could do with a left footed corner forward who takes frees.

The Supporter

I sincerely hope that Mayo do not underestimate Leitrim. January 2019 in FBD Mayo only defeated Leitrim on penalties in Carrick on Shannon. In 2006 in Connacht Championship in Carrick on Shannon Mayo were complacent and were very lucky to win by one point. Mayo were complacent also against Roscommon last year in Castlebar and paid a high price.

manofwisdom

The Supporter wrote: »

I sincerely hope that Mayo do not underestimate Leitrim. January 2019 in FBD Mayo only defeated Leitrim on penalties in Carrick on Shannon. In 2006 in Connacht Championship in Carrick on Shannon Mayo were complacent and were very lucky to win by one point. Mayo were complacent also against Roscommon last year in Castlebar and paid a high price.

FBD tie and a knock out championship game aren't comparable

Leitrim 2006 whom were competitive in most of their championship games in the early to mid 00s aren't the same as the current Leitrim team that was relegated to Div 4 and haven't been competitive against any of that top 15 teams in the last decade in the championship.

Don't think Mayo was complacent against Roscommon last year. Both were Div 1 teams and only a point separated the teams in the league meeting.

seligehgit

km79 wrote: »

A fairly abrupt ending to the glad tidings.

Feargal McGill apparently said a month ago if the regional league comes into being it will be a once off and the normal 4 divisions league will return in 2022.Last weekends relegations and promotions will be honoured.The regional league would compromise of two groups of 4 in each region with top in each group playing in the final.

seligehgit

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Is this Brickendens first senior start?

It appears so.

He came on in the challenge game against Donegal.

km79

seligehgit wrote: »

A fairly abrupt ending to the glad tidings.

Feargal McGill apparently said a month ago if the regional league comes into being it will be a once off and the normal 4 divisions league will return in 2022.Last weekends relegations and promotions will be honoured.The regional league would compromise of two groups of 4 in each region with top in each group playing in the final.

Well that would not be good news
Effectively two years minimum at a lower standard then

The Supporter

A Division Three Team Cavan defeated a Division One Team Monaghan today. Martin Breheny (Kilkerrin Co. Galway) in the Indo today previewing Mayo v Leitrim talked about Mayo as a scoring machine, what is Breheny's motivation with those comments? Terry Hyland the Leitrim manager won two Ulster under 2o's titles with Cavan, he was also the Cavan Senior Manager for four years. Brian Cody and Jim Gavin always respected the opposition.

Blackjack

The Supporter wrote: »

A Division Three Team Cavan defeated a Division One Team Monaghan today. Martin Breheny (Kilkerrin Co. Galway) in the Indo today previewing Mayo v Leitrim talked about Mayo as a scoring machine, what is Breheny's motivation with those comments? Terry Hyland the Leitrim manager won two Ulster under 2o's titles with Cavan, he was also the Cavan Senior Manager for four years. Brian Cody and Jim Gavin always respected the opposition.

What’s your own motivation?. Brehany is not a fan of Mayo and never has been. I suspect you haven’t been either.

The Supporter

I am a Mayo Supporter since the Mid Sixties, and I most certainly do not want to hear of a shock result from Carrick on Shannon tomorrow.

Blackjack

The Supporter wrote: »

I am a Mayo Supporter since the Mid Sixties, and I most certainly do not want to hear of a shock result from Carrick on Shannon tomorrow.

If that is the case why are you referencing what Brehany (who has nothing to do with Mayo) has to say with what might or might not be said by Gavin or Cody?

SomethingElse

The Supporter wrote: »

A Division Three Team Cavan defeated a Division One Team Monaghan today. Martin Breheny (Kilkerrin Co. Galway) in the Indo today previewing Mayo v Leitrim talked about Mayo as a scoring machine, what is Breheny's motivation with those comments? Terry Hyland the Leitrim manager won two Ulster under 2o's titles with Cavan, he was also the Cavan Senior Manager for four years. Brian Cody and Jim Gavin always respected the opposition.

I think you're confusing Martin Brehony with James Horan

homewardbound11

Are RTE showing the match ?

km79

homewardbound11 wrote: »

Are RTE showing the match ?

Channel 521


We are very very short in midfield !
Good to see Carr back in the squad