WRU move to kill off Ospreys

KrustyUCC

Ospreys chairman resigns over WRU's 'catastrophic mismanagement' as Owens voices deep concern

Ken Owens described Welsh rugby’s proposed restructure as ‘the most challenging situation that arguably any player has faced’ during their careers.

https://www.the42.ie/ospreys-scarlets-4524780-Mar2019/

Eod100

Bit of an explainer here on merger for anyone interested:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/scarlets-ospreys-merger-everything-you-15924170

Cookiemunster

Eod100 wrote: »

Bit of an explainer here on merger for anyone interested:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/scarlets-ospreys-merger-everything-you-15924170

The talk of Ospreys and Scarlets being both in favour of and behind idea of the merger doesn't really tally comments of the outgoing Ospreys chairman.

awec

The Pro14 should absolutely refuse to allow them to adopt this 2+2 nonsense. They should not be allowed to enter their 2 glorified A teams into a league that is already overflowing with sub standard teams.

troyzer

awec wrote: »

The Pro14 should absolutely refuse to allow them to adopt this 2+2 nonsense. They should not be allowed to enter their 2 glorified A teams into a league that is already overflowing with sub standard teams.

Yeah, it's bad enough with sub standard Leinster A teams like Ulster and Connacht.

Tigerandahalf

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The talk of Ospreys and Scarlets being both in favour of and behind idea of the merger doesn't really tally comments of the outgoing Ospreys chairman.

I'd say the Chairman had no choice. Ospreys were running out of cash. The Ospreys were represented on the PR board so they would have known this was coming down the track.

It is interesting that the Dragons were taken into union ownership only last year. Perhaps they realised the game was up for them.

All you can hope is that the new teams are backed. Otherwise Welsh club rugby and the pro14 could be in a right mess in a couple of years.

stephen_n

awec wrote: »

This is completely different. The Ospreys were a brand new team, at a new level for the sport.

What is happening now is expecting Ospreys to start supporting a team that quite literally have been their rivals for 16 years.

It's like expecting Leinster fans to start supporting Munster, with Munster fans accepting the team being renamed to the Munster Blues.

Munster are already trying to absorb Leinster, one player at a time. Leinster B or Munster Blues take your pick

molloyjh

I have to be honest, I’m getting really sick of listening to people bitch and moan about the league and then go on to bitch and moan about every attempt to improve it, all the while never proposing solutions themselves. The situation in Wales was completely unsustainable, so what else where they supposed to do!? Do any of those people complaining have any ideas at all, or do they just want to crap all over everything?

And people talk about Welsh moaning!?

thomond2006

awec wrote: »

The Pro14 should absolutely refuse to allow them to adopt this 2+2 nonsense. They should not be allowed to enter their 2 glorified A teams into a league that is already overflowing with sub standard teams.

Again, more hyperbole.

Overflowing: How many teams are included within this grouping? I look at the tables and I only see three teams that are completely off the pace (Zebre, Kings and Dragons). Is 3 out of 14 overflowing?

CatFromHue

stop moaning about people moaning molloyjh

molloyjh

CatFromHue wrote: »

stop moaning about people moaning molloyjh

Oh yeah, well, well, well......ah shut up CatFromHue. :pac:

molloyjh

thomond2006 wrote: »

Again, more hyperbole.

Overflowing: How many teams are included within this grouping? I look at the tables and I only see three teams that are completely off the pace (Zebre, Kings and Dragons). Is 3 out of 14 overflowing?

Exactly. The P14 has more teams in the European QFs than any other league while at the same being objectively the most competitive league of the 3 too. And this is an attempt to improve the fortunes of the sides in it.

awec

molloyjh wrote: »

Exactly. The P14 has more teams in the European QFs than any other league while at the same being objectively the most competitive league of the 3 too. And this is an attempt to improve the fortunes of the sides in it.

This proves absolutely nothing whatsoever. As pointed out many times.

The Pro14, by some distance, is the lowest standard of league by quite some distance. It is a league that is desperate for some relevancy. It is a league that is allowing in absolute rubbish like the Kings because it is a league that is absolutely desperate for a few quid.

awec

molloyjh wrote: »

I have to be honest, I’m getting really sick of listening to people bitch and moan about the league and then go on to bitch and moan about every attempt to improve it, all the while never proposing solutions themselves. The situation in Wales was completely unsustainable, so what else where they supposed to do!? Do any of those people complaining have any ideas at all, or do they just want to crap all over everything?

And people talk about Welsh moaning!?

How do you think this is going to improve things?

If you’re drawing up a list of welsh teams that need to go, the level of mental gymnastics required to avoid axing the Dragons is incredible.

The most successful welsh team in the history of the Pro14 is about to be wound up. Let that sink in for a moment.

CatFromHue

thomond2006 wrote: »

Again, more hyperbole.

Overflowing: How many teams are included within this grouping? I look at the tables and I only see three teams that are completely off the pace (Zebre, Kings and Dragons). Is 3 out of 14 overflowing?

yeah 3 teams at that standard is too much, they're 21% of the league, and you have Treviso teetering on the edge of that group as well.

that group is teams you expect to win very easily against and they're points difference backs that up, it's -228, -264, and -304 respectively.

Newcastle in the English league are the worst team but their pd is only -103, granted they've played 2 less games.

having 1 or even 2 no hoppers in the league is ok, but 3 pushing 4 with the potential for 5 is not good. not good at all.

awec

thomond2006 wrote: »

Again, more hyperbole.

Overflowing: How many teams are included within this grouping? I look at the tables and I only see three teams that are completely off the pace (Zebre, Kings and Dragons). Is 3 out of 14 overflowing?

Every team doesn’t play every other team home and away, so this idea that cause a few teams hover mid table they are somehow worthwhile is a fallacy. The cheetahs are mince. The blues are mince.

awec

Ospreys Rugby have just released a statement saying they agree with their recently resigned chairman that this process is a farce and that they will not merge with the Scarlets, citing their history and their contributions to the national team.

Good on them. Sanity might prevail if they stand their ground.

awec

awec wrote: »

Every team doesn’t play every other team home and away, so this idea that cause a few teams hover mid table they are somehow worthwhile is a fallacy. The cheetahs are mince. The blues are mince.

Didn't the Blues win the Challenge Cup last year? And 5 of the 8 Champions cup quarter finalists this year are Pro 14? The league is far from as bad as you make out. People over rate the English and French leagues massively.

awec

AdamD wrote: »

Didn't the Blues win the Challenge Cup last year? And 5 of the 8 Champions cup quarter finalists this year are Pro 14? The league is far from as bad as you make out. People over rate the English and French leagues massively.

Again, so what?

What does this prove?

The Blues are by and large crap. Another team that offers the league almost nothing.

thomond2006

awec wrote: »

Every team doesn’t play every other team home and away, so this idea that cause a few teams hover mid table they are somehow worthwhile is a fallacy. The cheetahs are mince. The blues are mince.

How do you define mince? The Cheetahs made the playoffs last year.

You're not making sense.

awec wrote: »

Ospreys Rugby have just released a statement saying they agree with their recently resigned chairman that this process is a farce and that they will not merge with the Scarlets, citing their history and their contributions to the national team.

Good on them. Sanity might prevail if they stand their ground.

What is sanity in this? The status quo isn't working either and the Ospreys' statement confirms this also.

awec

thomond2006 wrote: »

What is sanity in this? The status quo isn't working either.

The sanity of not messing with the two most successful regions, while leaving the runt of the litter untouched.


If you're drawing up a list of things in Welsh rugby that need to disappear, the Dragons have to be at the top of the list. They are a joke.

Eod100

thomond2006 wrote: »

How do you define mince? The Cheetahs made the playoffs last year.

You're not making sense.



What is sanity in this? The status quo isn't working either and the Ospreys' statement confirms this also.

Seems a bit of grass is greener thinking from WRU that a new region will somehow be up to Scarlets and Ospreys current standard despite not existing yet. Or can get up to standard in short to long term .

swiwi_

troyzer wrote: »

Yeah, it's bad enough with sub standard Leinster A teams like Ulster and Connacht.

That « joke » is really getting tired I must say.

Jump_In_Jack

CatFromHue wrote: »

yeah 3 teams at that standard is too much, they're 21% of the league, and you have Treviso teetering on the edge of that group as well.

that group is teams you expect to win very easily against and they're points difference backs that up, it's -228, -264, and -304 respectively.

Newcastle in the English league are the worst team but their pd is only -103, granted they've played 2 less games.

having 1 or even 2 no hoppers in the league is ok, but 3 pushing 4 with the potential for 5 is not good. not good at all.

Just pointing out that there are only 12 teams in the English league.
So even with 3 bad teams out of 14, Pro14 still has more good teams.

stephen_n

awec wrote: »

The sanity of not messing with the two most successful regions, while leaving the runt of the litter untouched.


If you're drawing up a list of things in Welsh rugby that need to disappear, the Dragons have to be at the top of the list. They are a joke.

Ospreys are no better than Dragons anymore, they aren’t going to get any better without increased funding. That’s not going to happen, so they are going to stay sh1te.

awec

stephen_n wrote: »

Ospreys are no better than Dragons anymore, they aren’t going to get any better without increased funding. That’s not going to happen, so they are going to stay sh1te.

Ospreys contribute a lot more to Wales than the Dragons.

The Ospreys and the Scarlets are the two teams the WRU should be doing everything to protect, they are the two regions that have shown they can cut it, the two brands that are actually worthwhile.

If the WRU want to play around they should play around with the Blues and the Dragons.

Neil3030

It's tough for fans, but the WRU are actually making a bold move to potentially put two sustainable and fairly decent Welsh sides together. Cardiff will be the quiet victors here I suspect, certainly the vibe on Twitter is that the Bridge End side of Swansea will be drawn more toward Blues.

aloooof

stephen_n wrote: »

Ospreys are no better than Dragons anymore, they aren’t going to get any better without increased funding. That’s not going to happen, so they are going to stay sh1te.

I think this is pretty inaccurate tbh. Ospreys currently have more than double the points Dragons do. Since the 2011/12 season when they won the Pro12, they've contested 2 semi-finals. Dragons haven't been outside the bottom 4 in all that time and haven't finished ahead of Ospreys. Then there's also the contribution to Wales, as awec mentioned.

I've no idea what the solution is but it's just not correct to same they're no better than Dragons.

stephen_n

aloooof wrote: »

I think this is pretty inaccurate tbh. Ospreys currently have more than double the points Dragons do. Since the 2011/12 season when they won the Pro12, they've contested 2 semi-finals. Dragons haven't been outside the bottom 4 in all that time and haven't finished ahead of Ospreys. Then there's also the contribution to Wales, as awec mentioned.

I've no idea what the solution is but it's just not correct to same they're no better than Dragons.

In the last three seasons they have steadily declined, as bad as Dragons may be over stating it. They are currently 10th in the Pro14, only 3 points clear of Cheetahs, one of the SA teams that Awec moans about as being a crap addition to the league. Their display against Connacht last week was every bit as bad as the Dragons would put out. As I said in an earlier post, Ospreys were Historicaly one of the strongest teams in the league, but that’s not now.

CatFromHue

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Just pointing out that there are only 12 teams in the English league.
So even with 3 bad teams out of 14, Pro14 still has more good teams.

I agree.

I've mentioned it before about the league that I think we have plenty of good teams in it, I just think we have more bad teams than other leagues.

Usually in England there's one bad team that you can see from a long way off that they'll be relegated. There might be two in some seasons where you know it's between the two of them who'll be relegated and there'll be a big difference in points between them and third last.